Case Design for Liquid Cooling

[Mick64]

A collaboration would be awesome! Helping one another, bouncing ideas, and finding solutions to problems would be made a lot easier! Of course, I will help as much as I can, and I'm sure there's a lot of enthusiasts that will also like to help as well. Be prepared for some criticism though, good as well as bad.

[h20xide]

I'm liking where this is going

[individual]

Here you go Neo

I went to my local computer store and asked if they had any spare/damaged/cases left over from upgrades lying around, got some generic case, but the case is solid so I'll compare the measurements on that GrabCad model to my own measurements and see how equal they are

EDIT: I'm not 100% sure if you need every one of those holes, but it cant hurt incase you swap to an EATX or even an ATX at some time.

[.::NeO::.]

Here you go Neo

I went to my local computer store and asked if they had any spare/damaged/cases left over from upgrades lying around, got some generic case, but the case is solid so I'll compare the measurements on that GrabCad model to my own measurements and see how equal they are

EDIT: I'm not 100% sure if you need every one of those holes, but it cant hurt incase you swap to an EATX or even an ATX at some time.

Hi individual,

thank you for sharing your knowledge with the forum . I'm at work now but as soon as I get home I'll post a picture of what my actual motherboard tray and motherboard holes look like, because from the jpeg you posted I can notice some differences (especially for the HPTX form factor holes). Maybe we can compare our holes position and see what the differences are.

Also, I'm happy to inform you that my order from frozencpu.com is arrived in Italy, I should receive my Danger Den 10 slot I/O shield in the next days so I can measure it and share the informations with you and the rest of the forum

.::NeO::.

[individual]

I have an issue with the motherboard tray....In this document http://www.pc-junky.com/pdfdocs/EEB_..._spec_v3_0.pdf , it says that the bottom opening of the I/O hole, is .088" or 2.25mm BELOW the base of the motherboard/standoff height.

Which is correct for this generic case, and my main Coolermaster case.

Which, the issue then becomes, the flange on the IO peice, that folds inwards towards the motherboard tray, wont fit with standard 6.5mm standoff's (being that the bottom of the opening would only be 4.2mm away from the motherboard tray, WHICH is normal in most cases (lol, double take) but because of this design, have to find a way around it.

Solutions:

Use bigger standoffs. The ones I have are 6.5mm high but i'm not sure if this is the same for everyone.


don't bother to change or add flange, just industrial glue straight to edge.
Wrap the flange 180 and turn it into an extended hem, then rivet onto actual motherboard tray.

[individual]

That's fantastic news because trying to find standards is ridiculous, and making a motherboard tray with an IO shield and PCI slots is more complex than I would have thought haha. I know why they're so expensive now haha.

The hole placement data is from Intel themselves on their SkullTrail board they released (d5400xs, which is XL-ATX I believe). the extended holes for HTPX were found somewhere on this forum


Just found this, after 80 google pages. I'll have to see whether its consistent with my findings tomorrow

[individual]

I've called up Thermaltake Australia this morning and explained to them and asked them for the form factor standards documents for all areas of chassis design, and I explained to him about the case and who designed it and how it came second by merely 1 vote in the case design competition, he seemed to remember the case and said he would go talk to the engineers and see if he can get me the documents. Fingers crossed!!

[.::NeO::.]

I've called up Thermaltake Australia this morning and explained to them and asked them for the form factor standards documents for all areas of chassis design, and I explained to him about the case and who designed it and how it came second by merely 1 vote in the case design competition, he seemed to remember the case and said he would go talk to the engineers and see if he can get me the documents. Fingers crossed!!

Awesome news!

as promised I share with you and the forum my Micro ATX, ATX v2.2, E-ATX, HTPX motherboard tray holes placement.

I measured the distance from a hole to another, instead of starting from a single point like you did, but you should be able to compare my holes placement to yours. I'm pretty sure that Micro ATX, ATX v2.2 and E-ATX (SSI-CEB/SSI-EEB) holes are correct (i took specs from http://www.formfactors.org/developer/specs/atx2_2.pdf and from some documentation at Silverstone website).

I'm not too sure about some of my HPTX holes and I also can't find some HPTX holes in your model.

HPTX is not a standard form factor and is owned by EVGA so no free documentation sadly, but I think that me and you (and the forum members) could sort that out.



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As for the 10 slot I/O shield plate I ask you just to wait a little bit since the package from USA to Italy will take a bit to arrive.

I look forward for your feedback.

Best regards,

.::NeO::.

[individual]

There doesn't seem to be much discrepancy between our hole placements, and there is a 0.1mm tolerance on hole placement generally (which is absurd, I don't like working with tolerances that big)

In any case, I have sourced documents and cad files Directly from a case manufacturer These guys have done thousands of cases from military to every day ccustom computers. Could even get this built through them lol

http://www.protocase.com/pdf/How_to_...ems_092010.pdf
http://www.protocase.com/pdf/Downloa..._3D_SLDPRT.zip
http://www.protocase.com/pdf/Motherb..._CAD_files.zip

EDIT: With this in light and the motherboard issues getting sorted, the case is coming along very smoothly, and has also given me ideas for a few aesthetic case designs (im not sure how my ideas came from this case, they are completely different)

Michael, I spoke with Thermaltake again this morning, they couldn't deliver documents unfortunately but no matter I got what I was looking for elsewhere, but the lead designer said he was the one originally pushing to get your case into production ( I assume you've spoken to thermaltake before? or maybe from the competition) so there is still hope there too.

EDIT 2: I'm trying to get the EVGA forums admin to give me the hole placement dxf file, because i know he has one, and it's from their design ducoments.
Also, when this is done I'll post a new thread of chassis building resources and documents.

[.::NeO::.]

There doesn't seem to be much discrepancy between our hole placements, and there is a 0.1mm tolerance on hole placement generally (which is absurd, I don't like working with tolerances that big)

In any case, I have sourced documents and cad files Directly from a case manufacturer These guys have done thousands of cases from military to every day ccustom computers. Could even get this built through them lol

http://www.protocase.com/pdf/How_to_...ems_092010.pdf
http://www.protocase.com/pdf/Downloa..._3D_SLDPRT.zip
http://www.protocase.com/pdf/Motherb..._CAD_files.zip

Yep, I also checked and basically all the major holes are there in both mine and your design . The only ones I'm missing are those that in your drawing goes from 0 to 177.8 and from 0 to 191.77.

There's a hole in your design which is not there, and is the hole that in my design goes from 11,43 to the left (i marked it in green)



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.::NeO::.

[individual]

After utilizing data from standardized sources, the IO panel and PCI slots all line up and fit perfectly


EDIT: Mike64, not that I didn't trust your skills and accuracy, pretty much every thing on there is spot on, It's just a habit to be 100% sure for myself I'm ever so slightly modifying dimensions just to make it all to whole numbers as most I can, without affecting component placements of course.

Neo thank you for the measurements I'll be sure to add that hole in. Did you measure all them by hand? with calipers I'm assuming?

[Mick64]

Mike64, not that I didn't trust your skills and accuracy, pretty much every thing on there is spot on, It's just a habit to be 100% sure for myself I'm ever so slightly modifying dimensions just to make it all to whole numbers as most I can, without affecting component placements of course.

I'm happy that you are checking the dimensions. I tried my best to ensure that everything is correct, but mistakes do happen and I'm no expert. Also, as you have already discovered, it's not always possible to replicate the design in the real world and dimensions will have to be changed. Good luck!

[individual]

I'm almost done the modeling, got everything but the radiator holders and the PSU bezel done, then i'll go over everything with the collision tool and make sure nothing interferes

[individual]

So I have some very good and very bad news. It depends how you look at it.
http://www.caselabs-store.com/magnum-sth10/

I got quoted by caselabs and protocase and legend to manufacture micks case, and the prototyping would cost well over 1500 which is including materials, after that you could do production runs and knock them off fairly cheap though, about 70 per case, then sell them as you wish.

That link i posted, Is a case by caselabs, which is essentially just a larger, more modular version of Micheal's case. I was excited and heart broken to find this case to be honest.

I'm not really sure what it means yet.

[Mick64]

So I have some very good and very bad news. It depends how you look at it.
http://www.caselabs-store.com/magnum-sth10/

I got quoted by caselabs and protocase and legend to manufacture micks case, and the prototyping would cost well over 1500 which is including materials, after that you could do production runs and knock them off fairly cheap though, about 70 per case, then sell them as you wish.

That link i posted, Is a case by caselabs, which is essentially just a larger, more modular version of Micheal's case. I was excited and heart broken to find this case to be honest.

I'm not really sure what it means yet.

Wonder where they got their design idea from? It's not as pretty as mine, but it's probably easier to manufacture, and looks fit for purpose. I might even get one myself if my design is too expensive to produce.

[BinaryApe]

So I have some very good and very bad news. It depends how you look at it.
http://www.caselabs-store.com/magnum-sth10/

I got quoted by caselabs and protocase and legend to manufacture micks case, and the prototyping would cost well over 1500 which is including materials, after that you could do production runs and knock them off fairly cheap though, about 70 per case, then sell them as you wish.

That link i posted, Is a case by caselabs, which is essentially just a larger, more modular version of Micheal's case. I was excited and heart broken to find this case to be honest.

I'm not really sure what it means yet.

Did they give you a specific quote or did they just say over $1500. I wonder how much it would be, I might be able to swing that.

Edit: I know I am new but I lurk on a lot of forums. Been following this case now for a while and I would like to see it made.

[h20xide]

I'm already purchasing the new murderbox and don't want to be forking out another $1500 for this beauty.. but I will have to if its ever manufactured. Its everything a watercooler dreams of and more.

[individual]

it wont be 1500 per case, just for the one off prototyping, for when they have to write their programs and make their tools for a production, after that it will be about 50-70 per case, and I'm guessing Mick will want a good amount of profit so maybe 250-350 when sold?

[h20xide]

I don't think I'm understanding correctly. 250-350 dollars per case!?

[.::NeO::.]

it wont be 1500 per case, just for the one off prototyping, for when they have to write their programs and make their tools for a production, after that it will be about 50-70 per case, and I'm guessing Mick will want a good amount of profit so maybe 250-350 when sold?

That's not an entirely honest answer... I already produced a case in which you can fit 4x480mm radiators and which support form factors from mATX to HPTX and it is a case you can disassemble in 3 big compartments:

roof (2x480mm rads)

center (hardware + 2x psu's)

bottom (2x480mm rads)

and the price I paid to make 1 sample was 1700$ (material + cut + painting).

I can post pics if you want, so you can compare dimensions and capability but I'm pretty sure you can't even come close to 250 - 350 $ per case... To reach such a low production cost you'd need to produce at least 50 - 70 sample in a row as a minimum...

[individual]

To reach such a low production cost you'd need to produce at least 50 - 70 sample in a row as a minimum...

Coincidentally, this is what i put in my email to them lol. My last post is wrong i meant to put down I requested a quote for a 1 off and a short production run of around 50-70 cases to get a ballpark figure, the one off was 1500 and the production ones after that were 125-150.

Who made your case, Neo?

[.::NeO::.]

Coincidentally, this is what i put in my email to them lol. My last post is wrong i meant to put down I requested a quote for a 1 off and a short production run of around 50-70 cases to get a ballpark figure, the one off was 1500 and the production ones after that were 125-150.

Who made your case, Neo?

oh ok then

I sent my DXF's to a local carpentry who cutted it for me. They also made the bend I needed and sanded and painted it for me. I'm @ work now as soon as I am home I'll post some pics

[.::NeO::.]

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(don't pay too much attention if some parts were a bit off, It was just a first test assemby



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Exteriors are 3mm thick alu, the interiors vary from a minimum of 1mm to a maximum of 1,5mm

A lot worse than Mick64's case, a lot, but it was my first attempt and I actually enjoyed building it . I am now actually working on another one, and is coming pretty nice

[arkadur]

moar pic please!

[Church]

.::NeO::.: imho it's worth to work on radgrill pattern for better looks (and possibly more open area to lessen airflow resistance).