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Thread: "Heat Spacer?"

  1. #1
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    "Heat Spacer?"

    Long story short(er):

    A couple weeks back, I setup an i7 rig to replace my aging FX64 system. I temporarily installed a Zalman CNPS9900 HSF while I waited for all of my water cooling parts to come in. I think the Zalman warped my mobo.

    Currently, I have an i7 920 OC'd to 3.6 under a DD MC-TDX WB (no backing plate was included), and an EK 295 GTX block on an EVGA 295GTX, a Swiftech MCR32-QP-K rad, three Scythe "S-FLEX™" S-FDB 120mm Quiet FAN - SFF21G fans, and an Eheim 1250 pump. All one loop. My reservoir coolant temps idles at 29 (my ambient is controlled at 22 C) and maxes at 32 C under load.

    GPU temps are great; neither core ever goes over 55. However, my CPU temps *immediately* jump to the high 70's when the CPU is loaded. At least, that's the temps I'm getting now... I was hitting temps in the high 80's until three days ago. After reading a bunch of threads here (and especially Gabe from Swiftech's comments about it), I began to suspect that my mobo was warped, causing TIM joint problems. So I took the DD WB off the CPU. Imagine my surprise when I saw two areas of TIM that hadn't even been *touched* by the WB. So I replaced the TIM with some old AS5, and remounted the WB. All my temps have dropped ten degrees, but the CPU temps are still hitting and peaking in the high 70's immediately upon loading the CPU.

    This has me thinking that my problem still lies in the TIM joint. If I was limited by total thermal cooling capacity, the temps would gradually rise over time as the coolant reached it's max temp for the cooling capacity available. Since it's peaking and stabilizing immediately, that makes me think the problem lies in the transference of heat from the IHS to the WB. As I said earlier, my coolant temp (reservoir) idles at 29 and maxes at 32 under load. To me, that says I still have plenty of cooling capacity that's not being used. Additionally, changing my fan speeds has no effect on CPU temps, either. Whether they are barely spinning, or maxed out, the CPU temp stays exactly the same, loaded or idle.

    I had two choices to fix this: 1. Order the backing plate for the DD block to try and take out the MB warp and give me a better TIM joint, or 2. Take the expensive route and get a Swiftech Apogee GTZ WB that includes the backing plate. So of course I chose option 2. The GTZ should be here either tomorrow or Tuesday. I'm hoping that the backing plate will help to stiffen the mobo enough to where I can get a decent TIM joint and drop the temps down where they should be.

    Anyway... purpose of this rather long winded post:

    1. I'd love to see what temps you guys are getting on an i7 on water. There's a few posts around showing i7 temps, but it seems most of the temp posts are from other CPU's.

    2. What other ways would you guys recommend of getting the flex out of my mobo so I can get a better TIM joint?

    3. I'm wondering about using, for lack of a better term, a "heat spacer". A piece of copper cut to the shape and size of the CPU, lapped and polished. This would be placed between the WB and the IHS. Since I don't have access to the stuff I'd need to make this myself, I was considering using a TEC block (unpowered, of course). Would a TEC block efficiently transfer heat from the IHS to the WB if the TEC wasn't powered?

    Thanks in advance for help/suggestions/critiques, etc.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by pneubmatic View Post

    1. I'd love to see what temps you guys are getting on an i7 on water. There's a few posts around showing i7 temps, but it seems most of the temp posts are from other CPU's.
    2. What other ways would you guys recommend of getting the flex out of my mobo so I can get a better TIM joint?

    3. I'm wondering about using, for lack of a better term, a "heat spacer". A piece of copper cut to the shape and size of the CPU, lapped and polished. This would be placed between the WB and the IHS. Since I don't have access to the stuff I'd need to make this myself, I was considering using a TEC block (unpowered, of course). Would a TEC block efficiently transfer heat from the IHS to the WB if the TEC wasn't powered?

    1. My temps, as well as others temps, is NOT YOUR system, so these temps would not matter at all. If anything your asking us to show off our system, then be prepared for a lot of e-penis flexing on this forum. Each system behaves independantly, so you can never look at your friends system and assume it will do X.

    (however i think i hold the best deltas on this forum)

    2. Tim joint? You mean mount? huh? you have a really weak pump you know that right?

    Quote Originally Posted by pneubmatic View Post
    Long story short(er):
    and an Eheim 1250 pump. All one loop.

    3. What cpu block do you have? Which DD is it? TDX? MCP TDX?
    Last edited by NaeKuh; 03-01-2009 at 09:53 AM.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by pneubmatic View Post

    1. I'd love to see what temps you guys are getting on an i7 on water. There's a few posts around showing i7 temps, but it seems most of the temp posts are from other CPU's.
    look here
    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...8&postcount=25

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by rioja View Post
    dude this cross comparing temps is what gets noobies into trouble a lot.

    We seriously need to stop comparing temps and debug the old fashion way though coolant and air delta to see how much work your system is really doing.

    Comparing temps is honest to god BULLSH1T, unless all the block testing was done on the SAME BED.

    Which is why andy wont touch his bench system, Scott never did a bios update, and Skinnee is now dying becase he changed one of his heaters.
    (meaning when his heater died, it invalided all his tests, so he went and did them again. Hence why there is a delay).
    Last edited by NaeKuh; 03-01-2009 at 09:58 AM.
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    [12:37] skinnee: quit helping me procrastinate block reviews, you asshat. :p
    [12:38] Naekuh: i love watching u get the firing squad on XS
    Its my fault.. and no im not sorry about it either.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by pneubmatic View Post
    Long story short(er):

    Currently, I have an i7 920 OC'd to 3.6 under a DD MC-TDX WB (no backing plate was included), and an EK 295 GTX block on an EVGA 295GTX, a Swiftech MCR32-QP-K rad, three Scythe "S-FLEX™" S-FDB 120mm Quiet FAN - SFF21G fans, and an Eheim 1250 pump. All one loop. My reservoir coolant temps idles at 29 (my ambient is controlled at 22 C) and maxes at 32 C under load.


    Thanks in advance for help/suggestions/critiques, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by NaeKuh View Post
    1. My temps, as well as others temps, is NOT YOUR system, so these temps would not matter at all. If anything your asking us to show off our system, then be prepared for a lot of e-penis flexing on this forum. Each system behaves independantly, so you can never look at your friends system and assume it will do X.

    (however i think i hold the best deltas on this forum)

    2. Tim joint? You mean mount? huh? you have a really weak pump you know that right?



    3. What cpu block do you have? Which DD is it? TDX? MCP TDX?
    1. Point taken on the temp comparison.

    2. Sorry if I'm not using proper terminology; I'd seen Gabe reference "TIM joint" and seen others just refer to it as "mount". I meant the interface between the IHS and WB. Whatever the proper jargon is for that location.

    3. WB I have is in the bold quote above.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pneubmatic View Post
    1. Point taken on the temp comparison.

    2. Sorry if I'm not using proper terminology; I'd seen Gabe reference "TIM joint" and seen others just refer to it as "mount". I meant the interface between the IHS and WB. Whatever the proper jargon is for that location.

    3. WB I have is in the bold quote above.
    to be honest, id think its your pump.

    The ehiem is by far the weakest pump in our arsenal. Its honest to god weaker then the CPX-PRO.

    How well your block does is relative to its flow + presure + design.

    The TDX is a free flowing block, so it has a max cap at a set pressure and flow. However i bet your under that cap line because of all your other blocks.

    What rad are you running all this? In h2o the main driving component is your ambient water temperature. What is it at? and how close is it to real outside ambient.

    This ambient water temp is your line. Only way across it is a bong chiller or putting work into your system (chiller).
    Nadeshiko: i7 990 12GB DDR3 eVGA Classified *In Testing... Jealous? *
    Miyuki: W3580 6GB DDR3 P6T-Dlx
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    Sammy: Dual Yonah Sossoman cheerleader. *Sammy-> Lind.*

    [12:37] skinnee: quit helping me procrastinate block reviews, you asshat. :p
    [12:38] Naekuh: i love watching u get the firing squad on XS
    Its my fault.. and no im not sorry about it either.

  7. #7
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    Aha, you have a MCR320 on the i7 AND the 295? And a decent overclock? Plus a weak pump.

    Raddage my man, your raddage is too small. Plus a better pump would help.

    The CPU and GPU under load is just too much heat to keep the water temp low enough for the CPU.
    All stock for now, no need for more, but it's gonna be soon methinks.
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  8. #8
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    Cool, guys, thanks for the help! I also have a MCP655 pump that's on my old FX64 system. I'll swap out the Eheim for the Swiftech pump and give that a try. I think I'll do a flow rate comparison test of the Eheim and Swiftech pumps through my current loop. I'm also planning on ordering the new Swiftech stackable rad as soon as it comes in next week. There were a few available on ebay last week, but they sold fast.

    NaeKuh, the only rad I have (until the Swiftech stackable comes in next week) is the MCR320-QP-k with three Scythe "S-FLEX™" S-FDB 120mm Quiet FAN - SFF21G fans. Performance-pcs is expecting the stackables in next week sometime. I'm gonna do a rad sandwhich.

    OK, so I'll swap the Eheim for the MCP655, swap the DD MC-TDX for the Apogee GTZ, and I'll do a rad sandwhich with the new stackable rad. You guys think I'm going to be OK with the current fans, or should I order new fans when I order the new rad? Maybe get another three Scythe "S-FLEX™" S-FDB 120mm Quiet FAN - SFF21G and go rad-fan-rad-fan? I really like that fan. Even at full blow they're quite easy on the ears for the amount of air they move. I've tried to understand all the incredible amount of information available here about fans, static pressure, CFM, etc., but it's all a bit over my head; I'm depending on you guy's experience and recommendations for fans. I kinda took a shot in the dark with the Scythes, but I'm pretty happy with them so far.

    I'm really trying to not do two seperate loops if I can help it. I'd like to keep my old system on water, too, so if I have to do two loops on my new i7, I'd have to buy yet another pump.

    Edit: Whoops.. I shouldn't just go assuming things...I'm assuming that the MCP655 would be a good replacement for the eheim. It seems to be a very strong pump, but then again, it's on a CPU only loop on my old system, so it's not like I'm working it very hard. If you were going to buy a pump specifically for the loop I'm running on the i7, would it be the 655? There's so many choices out there.
    Last edited by pneubmatic; 03-01-2009 at 12:42 PM.

  9. #9
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    If you don't mind the noise from those fans, go with them - the S-Flex are excellent radiator fans. And if you've got the room, more radiator area will probably help - you've got a fair amount of heat being dumped into your water, to the point where a single triple rad would benefit from some more help. And a backing plate should be considered essential for any waterblock, especially with the wider mounting hole pattern on the i7 platform.

    The MCP655 is a strong pump. It dumps a few more watts of heat into the water than some other pumps, but still nothing compared to the heat that your actual hardware is making.
    i7 2600K | ASUS Maximus IV GENE-Z | GTX Titan | Corsair DDR3-2133

  10. #10
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    OK... I just found some more of the Swiftech triple 120 stackable rads on ebay. So I'm going to buy one. I also ordered three more Scythe fans. Hopefully the MCP655 will be up to the task of running this whole shebang. If it's not, I'll do seperate loops and take the old machine off of water.

    So...

    1. Loop: Res - MCP655 - Apogee GTZ (with backing plate) - EK 295 GTX WB - MCR320-QP-K rad sandwich - res.

    2. Fans: Six Scythe SFF21G fans in pull-pull config. (rad-fan-rad-fan)

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