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Thread: Valve: Games are too expensive

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    Valve: Games are too expensive

    Games may be too expensive.

    That is the message Valve Software President Gabe Newell gave the assembled developers at the annual DICE Summit on Wednesday. While the topic of his keynote was the game industry's transition from retail industry to service industry, he revealed sales data from Steam that suggests games are too expensive.

    The reason why few have arrived at this conclusion is because you cannot easily experiment with pricing at retail, says Newell. But you can with Steam, Valve's burgeoning digital distribution platform.

    On the PC-only Steam service, a wide range of prices are attached to games, and attractive weekend deals throw more pricing variability into the mix. Although Valve was initially afraid that volatility or variability in pricing would confuse or anger its customers--or even cannibalize retail sales--Newell says that was not all the case.

    In fact, it dramatically increased sales. Illustrating his point, Newell showed the results of a Left 4 Dead promotion Valve ran last weekend, which cut the price of the game in half to $25. The discount (and promise of new content for the game) rocketed sales of the game on Steam by 3,000 percent.

    "We sold more in revenue this last weekend than we did when we launched the product," says Newell. "We were driving a huge uptick in revenue and attracting new customers." And while people believe that we're "screwing" retail, Newell showed that brick-and-mortar sales were unaffected by the online discount.

    This phenomenon is not limited to Valve games. Over the holidays, Steam discounted third-party titles. Sales increased 300 percent and units-sold increased by 600 percent.

    Still skeptical? Newell said that a weekend sale of one third-party title drove that game's sales up by 18,000 percent and units-sold increased 36,000 percent. It energized the user base, says Newell. When the sale ended, baseline sales were double what they were prior to the weekend discount.

    Discounting games does not only increase unit sales--it increases actual revenues. During the 16-day sale window over the holidays, third-parties were given a choice as to how severely they would discount their games. Those that discounted their games by 10 percent saw a 35% uptick in sales--that's dollars, not units. A 25 percent discount meant a 245 percent increase in sales. Dropping the price by 50 percent meant a sales increase of 320 percent. And a 75 percent decrease in the price point generated a 1,470 percent increase in sales.

    The conclusion: The games industry is not pricing its products correctly. It's only through the experimentation that such services as Steam allows will the industry be able to find the golden ratio of price and sales. As Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences President Joseph Olin concluded Wednesday night, this is going to generate a lot of controversy about pricing.
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    I love Valve... I'll never forgive them for ruining CS with 1.6 (don't get me started on that turd of an update...), but they're good people it seems.

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    I like their marketing. They are selling a bunch of excellent games for 30$ (the orange box) and they are making quality games and support on all their games. That added to the big step Steam has made since it's release, I must say 2 thumbs up Valve!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sly Fox View Post
    I love Valve... I'll never forgive them for ruining CS with 1.6 (don't get me started on that turd of an update...), but they're good people it seems.
    Couldn't agree with ya more

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    What is the difference between sales and units sold?

    That doesn't make sense. I think they mean revenue, not sales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtypop View Post
    What is the difference between sales and units sold?

    That doesn't make sense.
    Units sold x price I'd imagine.

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    THQ/relic is selling a bugged and broken Dawn of War 2 for $50. Plus the game is complete crap. Glad there was a beta to test out the garbage before I bought it.
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    Go Valve!
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    Damn straight they should drop prices. it's called the demand side of s&d. Plus I think downloads should slightly cheaper than retails. Just my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob94hawk View Post
    THQ/relic is selling a bugged and broken Dawn of War 2 for $50. Plus the game is complete crap. Glad there was a beta to test out the garbage before I bought it.
    They have released two patches in less than a week, so at least they are trying to fix the game...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pontos View Post
    They have released two patches in less than a week, so at least they are trying to fix the game...
    Trying to fix a game after it's release is a stupid way of doing business. They even had a one month ONLINE BETA for crying out loud! Not for nothing but they apparently didn't learn anything for 4 years of Dawn of War 1 and it's 3 expansions.
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  12. #12
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    No, really?

    Games should have been made $25 a long time ago.
    I remember about a month ago I went and bought Madden 09 for Xbox 360. SIXTY F%#&*NG DOLLARS!!!
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    Funny how people think Valve is the good guys. Sorry, last I checked these guys who are preaching "cheaper games" are talking out of the other end of their mouth by charging full RETAIL price for the right to DOWNLOAD a new game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
    Funny how people think Valve is the good guys. Sorry, last I checked these guys who are preaching "cheaper games" are talking out of the other end of their mouth by charging full RETAIL price for the right to DOWNLOAD a new game.
    And those games also go on sale for sometime in EXCESS of 50% off all the time.

    Plus in any case, I'm sure the packaging and disks cost roughly 20 cents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
    Funny how people think Valve is the good guys. Sorry, last I checked these guys who are preaching "cheaper games" are talking out of the other end of their mouth by charging full RETAIL price for the right to DOWNLOAD a new game.
    slightly less, actually.
    retail stores gotta pay rent, and they'll pass it on to you. on the other hand, you don't have to leave your room. so this is a plus.
    Sigs are obnoxious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob94hawk View Post
    Trying to fix a game after it's release is a stupid way of doing business. They even had a one month ONLINE BETA for crying out loud! Not for nothing but they apparently didn't learn anything for 4 years of Dawn of War 1 and it's 3 expansions.
    The beta was used to recollect data for the 0-day patch. Without it the game was pretty much broken.
    The other two patches were relatively small fixes

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    Quote Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
    Funny how people think Valve is the good guys. Sorry, last I checked these guys who are preaching "cheaper games" are talking out of the other end of their mouth by charging full RETAIL price for the right to DOWNLOAD a new game.
    don't they have to pay for high speed servers?
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    All i have to say is that it's about time. I've been saying this for years. The L4d weekend just cemented it for me. Now look, TF2 is 9.99 till friday and guess what? I bought it. I've always liked Valve and now i know why. Hopefully the rest of the industry will take note.
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    you also have to remember one thing about valve. you never loose your games when your harddrive gets wiped and you lost your game disk. all you have to do is load up steam enter your username and password and download away. who else does that for you for free?
    Last edited by kg4icg; 02-25-2009 at 08:37 PM. Reason: typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sly Fox View Post
    And those games also go on sale for sometime in EXCESS of 50% off all the time.

    Plus in any case, I'm sure the packaging and disks cost roughly 20 cents.
    You forget transport, in-store marketing, manual printing (in two languages here), import costs, retailer mark-up...I can go on and on but let's just say it ain't no 20 cents. I will have to find the study but some estimates put the cost of selling a game at retail at about 25% of the total price you see in the store. That is HUGE.

    To put that into perspective, if a company like EA ships 200,000 copies of a $50 game to retailers, that means (based on the 25%) that $2,500,000 is spent between the time it leaves EA's studios and makes its way to the retailer's shelves. That is the price for ONE GAME LAUNCH.

    This is why Valve's prices just don't make sense. It is digital distribution that cuts out a ton of mitigating factors that pop into B&M sales.

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    Valve does not set the prices for the 3rd party games. It even says right in the article that developers/publishers were given a choice on how far to discount the game. That pretty much means that the 3rd party sets the price.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SKYMTL View Post
    You forget transport, in-store marketing, manual printing (in two languages here), import costs, retailer mark-up...I can go on and on but let's just say it ain't no 20 cents. I will have to find the study but some estimates put the cost of selling a game at retail at about 25% of the total price you see in the store. That is HUGE.

    To put that into perspective, if a company like EA ships 200,000 copies of a $50 game to retailers, that means (based on the 25%) that $2,500,000 is spent between the time it leaves EA's studios and makes its way to the retailer's shelves. That is the price for ONE GAME LAUNCH.

    This is why Valve's prices just don't make sense. It is digital distribution that cuts out a ton of mitigating factors that pop into B&M sales.
    You make some good points, but without knowing what Valve pays for server/bandwidth fees, it's difficult to compare.

    Frankly, I'm just glad that steam works and saves me a trip to Best Buy. And like I said, if you are willing to wait it out games can often be had insanely cheap on steam.

    If you want a game launch day though, yea, it's a little bit silly they aren't at least $44.99 instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [XC] Lead Head View Post
    Valve does not set the prices for the 3rd party games. It even says right in the article that developers/publishers were given a choice on how far to discount the game. That pretty much means that the 3rd party sets the price.
    I think he meant L4D being full retail price at launch. I bought it of course because my friends were pullin an all nighter that night. But there's no way im paying that price again on a valve developed game again. I would have paid $39 without a fuss however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SquiZZ View Post
    I think he meant L4D being full retail price at launch. I bought it of course because my friends were pullin an all nighter that night. But there's no way im paying that price again on a valve developed game again. I would have paid $39 without a fuss however.
    l4d did launch at $40 it was 20% off then when to $50 the day or so affter

    i cant see why people would pay $50 for most games, i get something like MGS4 or half life 2 or madden but when u have a basic game on a non original engine and u have to pay for multilayer (user or server based) how can people think that $50+ is a good price. look at nintendo they see high sales in titles by having everything $40, and if u look at valve they have always done the same pricing by bundling and engine pack were u get half life we give u death match/CS/half life blue/ricochet shift free. or u buy HL2 we give u the old games and u get CSS and day of defeat for $10 add on and every game from them at the time for $15 more, and then the orange box. but if they price individual games were the effective bundle would be they will get huge sales IMO on the total and more on the individual since i didnt want another hl2 or TF2 i waited for portal to go on sale
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    Games are a lot more cheaper nowadays than it is 5 years ago

    but still it can go lower with those abundant Indian programmers who'll work for you at dirt cheap rates
    it's not discriminating .. but we're comparing 4mil project work with 40k cost .. that's real profit

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