Coolit Boreas - trying to carry on where CornerJack left off

[SteveRo]

would of loved to see the differance with just cpu block change & then with just the pump change with stock cpu block

if eye was to do any 1 thing to my little unit think it would be the cpu block

but thanks for all the tinkering ! it shows a lot ! been thinking of upgradeing to a boras or a OCZ Cryo Z

Based on other reading - I think the majority of the improvement (vs stock boreas) comes from the GTZ - the pump change should have made less if any improvement.

[Crazystang01]

STeveRo I've been following this thread along and have enjoyed your posts. I do have a couple of questions tho.
Like why are both the fans blowing toward each other? Wouldnt it be better if 1 was like pulling in fresh cool air and the other exhausting warm air out the back of the case?
I do have a Coolit Boreas DIY unit that came with the pump and the mtec controller. I'll be replacing the pump with a DDC as well going from 1/4 to 3/8 with reducers. Only differ is that I have a EK Supreme LT and a Core i7 920.

I wont be going below 20 C as I dont want to insualt my bloodrage for condensation. Anyways thanks for the little review and looking for more of your updated posts.

[SteveRo]

STeveRo I've been following this thread along and have enjoyed your posts. I do have a couple of questions tho.
Like why are both the fans blowing toward each other? Wouldnt it be better if 1 was like pulling in fresh cool air and the other exhausting warm air out the back of the case?
I do have a Coolit Boreas DIY unit that came with the pump and the mtec controller. I'll be replacing the pump with a DDC as well going from 1/4 to 3/8 with reducers. Only differ is that I have a EK Supreme LT and a Core i7 920.

I wont be going below 20 C as I dont want to insualt my bloodrage for condensation. Anyways thanks for the little review and looking for more of your updated posts.

The boreas I recvd has both fans blowing out away from the unit.
I suspect this is best because you want air passing through the cooling fins.
The cooling fins are in a tube shape with the tecs and water blocks bolted onto the outside of the tube.
I suspect that if both fans blew the same direction you would not pull the air through the fins just through the interior cavity.
Hope this makes sense.
Make sure you post back your results - I am very curious how the EK block works out in your set up.

[HDCHOPPER]

thanks SteveRo thats what eye wanted to here

[SteveRo]

I was able to rebalance the load on the coolmax 1200, I am back to one power supply.
Also, unless you are going skultrail or adding vc's to the loop, adding a radiator will probably just heat up the water.
Even at i7 max intel cpuv load I am still staying subambient.

[Ultrasonic2]

Your a braver man than i to run it at 78c !

What are your ambients ?

[SteveRo]

Your a braver man than i to run it at 78c !

What are your ambients ?

probably about 21-22 or so.
the coolit reads hot - thermometer in the reservoir reads 3-4C less.
i7's can run hot and keep on chugging - this on air -

[Ultrasonic2]

97 thats crazy . i wounder how long that would last. think i've just got used to my chiller temps

[Jor3lBR]

Thanks for sharing!

Would be interesting to see how better would Boreas get using a GTX, Dtek or any other renowned block.

[SteveRo]

Thanks for sharing!

Would be interesting to see how better would Boreas get using a GTX, Dtek or any other renowned block.

I swtched to a GTZ block something like two weeks ago - I think on page two of this thread.

[SteveRo]

I was able to get slightly higher max oc prime stable with the boreas/GTZ block versus passive water (feser quad with 4x ultra kaze and GTZ block) -

ht on - an increase from 4.242 to 4.305 and
ht off - an increase from 4.431 to 4.480

Not much but still an improvement -

[SteveRo]

I learned something new this morning.
Recall that Ultra had mentioned previously that if your temps are sub-ambient that adding a radiator will actually warm up your water because the air that is passing through the radiator is at ambient.
Pretty much since I had installed the boreas I had placed two 120 fans about 3 in. away from the cpu block thinking this would do two things -
1. help evaporate any condensation before it could cause a problem and
2. cool down the water block even further.
Then last weekend I added a floor fan in the back of my computer closet to blow air over the racks and out the closet front door.
So I had blowing ambient air flowing over the cpu block and over some of the tecs (located on the surface of the boreas).
This morning I accidently left the fans off - wow - look at the result - coolant down to 11.4C and idle cpu down to 19!
This at 4.2 oc and with just over 1.4v cpuv.

[SteveRo]

So - here's what I think - just as an ambient radiator can warm up subambient water, why can't ambient air blown by fans warm up subambient waterblocks and tecs?
So perhaps a learning experience for me is a reminder to others users tec coolers with subambient water - careful where you aim you fans!
Looks like you probably don't want them blasting on your water blocks or tecs!

[eclipset]

So - here's what I think - just as an ambient radiator can warm up subambient water, why can't ambient air blown by fans warm up subambient waterblocks and tecs?
So perhaps a learning experience for me is a reminder to others users tec coolers with subambient water - careful where you aim you fans!
Looks like you probably don't want them blasting on your water blocks or tecs!

Yea I have thought about that. I am suprised someone hasn't come out with a insulated hose; maybe a derivative of a braided performance car hose or a phase change type hose. I have never seen one, but looks like the phase units definately insulate their hoses that go very below subambient. One has to think those hoses/blocks/reservoirs lie right in the path of air circulation so they could end up raising the tec temps from subambient. I honestly think it may not be that much of a performace loss, but something to consider looking into.

Great post by the way. Getting a Boreas and your post has geared me to try other techniques to get the most out of that bugger.

Steve, do you have an ultamite goal speed/temp you would be happy with?

I think I might be happy with 4.3ghz with HT @ 65/75 degrees full load. (I have to study your post better, but I think you already achieved this) I don't want to prematurly fail the chip with too much overclocking and running it too hot. I probably would clock it only for intensive applications like graphic rendering, video editing, and gaming.

Some of the tests have been so promising for the i7 965. Seeing it run at 97 degree celcius for 13 hours in a Asus P6T6 WS revolution and still stable as can be. (not a test I would risk, IMO - that is HOT!)

[eclipset]

I learned something new this morning.
Recall that Ultra had mentioned previously that if your temps are sub-ambient that adding a radiator will actually warm up your water because the air that is passing through the radiator is at ambient.
Pretty much since I had installed the boreas I had placed two 120 fans about 3 in. away from the cpu block thinking this would do two things -
1. help evaporate any condensation befoe it could cause a problem and
2. col down the water block even further.
Then last weekend I added a floor fan in the back of my computer closet to blow air over the racks and out the closet front door.
So I had blowing ambient air flowing over the cpu block and over some of the tecs (located on the surface of the boreas).
This morning I accidently left the fans off - wow - look at the result - coolant down to 11.4C and idle cpu down to 19!
This at 4.2 oc and with just over 1.4v cpuv.

I missed this part.

So definately ditch the idea of a RAD in the loop???

Great figures! Wonder what load would do?

Is your board insulated from condensation, if so, what would you recommend? I want to be able to change back to OEM as easily as possible (to resell for a MB change out). I hear the liquid electrical tape works well for that and is easily removed? Is the best way with the whole dielectric grease and foam with silicone to seal the chip? Or when one commits to insulating a MB they just write it off as never resellable?

[SteveRo]

I missed this part.

So definately ditch the idea of a RAD in the loop???

Great figures! Wonder what load would do?

Is your board insulated from condensation, if so, what would you recommend? I want to be able to change back to OEM as easily as possible (to resell for a MB change out). I hear the liquid electrical tape works well for that and is easily removed? Is the best way with the whole dielectric grease and foam with silicone to seal the chip? Or when one commits to insulating a MB they just right it off as never resellable?

Good afternoon,

max under load was 56C for Linx run 20x.
I conformal coated the board 2-3 inches all round the socket both front and back of board, luberexed the socket under the cpu and silicon sealed around the socket - no gaskets yet - no frosy king applied as yet. - see -

http://i4memory.com/f22/how-sub-zero...sulation-5140/

http://www.crazypc.com/products/phasechange.html

or

http://www.crazypc.com/articles/condensation.htm

[FragMagnet]

Thanks for all the work SteveRo, this has answered a ton of questions I had on both big water and the Boreas. I haven't used TEC's in a while, and the Boreas unit caught my eye. Based on your #'s, and the final results once you turned the surrounding fans off, it seems like the Boreas would be easier to incorporate into a system within a closed case compared to big water. Starting from scratch, the Boreas should be cheaper as well. After seeing the i7's heat, I was going to get another CM590, cut it down, and install a 2 rad system w/pump, etc., then fit it under my system much like a prommie or Asetech, but after seeing your results, and the deal CoolIT offer on the Boreas/Silverstone, it seems a lot less work. I just wish they made the Boreas a little larger to incorporate 120's instead of 92's to keep the noise down ! I'll have to open the patio door tonight to see what this particular chip can do with some chilly Canadian air to see of I can justify the expense Again, thanks for sharing your results !!

[SteveRo]

Yea I have thought about that. I am suprised someone hasn't come out with a insulated hose; maybe a derivative of a braided performance car hose or a phase change type hose. I have never seen one, but looks like the phase units definately insulate their hoses that go very below subambient. One has to think those hoses/blocks/reservoirs lie right in the path of air circulation so they could end up raising the tec temps from subambient. I honestly think it may not be that much of a performace loss, but something to consider looking into.

Great post by the way. Getting a Boreas and your post has geared me to try other techniques to get the most out of that bugger.

Steve, do you have an ultamite goal speed/temp you would be happy with?

I think I might be happy with 4.3ghz with HT @ 65/75 degrees full load. (I have to study your post better, but I think you already achieved this) I don't want to prematurly fail the chip with too much overclocking and running it too hot. I probably would clock it only for intensive applications like graphic rendering, video editing, and gaming.

Some of the tests have been so promising for the i7 965. Seeing it run at 97 degree celcius for 13 hours in a Asus P6T6 WS revolution and still stable as can be. (not a test I would risk, IMO - that is HOT!)

When I had 1st purchased the i7 back in November my goal was 4ghz.
I don't really have any goals anymore other than more ghz and lower temps.
Yes, I have had 4.3 prime stable - see my signature.

By the way I added the Feser quad radiator into the loop yesterday just to confirm what I thought was going on.
Running at 4.2 ht on, cpuv just over 1.4v - my idle and load temps went up 10C each.
The radiator was certainly heating up the subambient water.

[SteveRo]

Thanks for all the work SteveRo, this has answered a ton of questions I had on both big water and the Boreas. I haven't used TEC's in a while, and the Boreas unit caught my eye. Based on your #'s, and the final results once you turned the surrounding fans off, it seems like the Boreas would be easier to incorporate into a system within a closed case compared to big water. Starting from scratch, the Boreas should be cheaper as well. After seeing the i7's heat, I was going to get another CM590, cut it down, and install a 2 rad system w/pump, etc., then fit it under my system much like a prommie or Asetech, but after seeing your results, and the deal CoolIT offer on the Boreas/Silverstone, it seems a lot less work. I just wish they made the Boreas a little larger to incorporate 120's instead of 92's to keep the noise down ! I'll have to open the patio door tonight to see what this particular chip can do with some chilly Canadian air to see of I can justify the expense Again, thanks for sharing your results !!

A couple thoughts for you
1. I think ventilation of the case will still be important. The tecs do generate heat and you want to get that heat out of the case, just be careful that you are not passing ambient air over the subambient components.
2. Once you get your set up - up and running - if you still need more cooling performance - I found that replacing the block and the pump made a nice improvement.

In retrospect I wish I had replaced the block and then tested and then the pump and then tested instead of both at once - I did try to go back and put the coolit pump back in the loop but I couldn't even get enough head pressure to bleed the lines - I might have damaged the pump some how.

[yokomo]

nice report there , just out of interest whats the water delta t across the boreas ?
I know you said youve got probe in the res but there must be soem differential , not going to be as big but i can easyily feel it on my rad . water in is defiantly hotter than water out . so im wondering if a single 120 rad wiht high flow fans right after the cpu and pump so whe the water is at it warmest there may eb soem gains or is the coolant constantly sub aambient ?

[SteveRo]

nice report there , just out of interest whats the water delta t across the boreas ?
I know you said youve got probe in the res but there must be soem differential , not going to be as big but i can easyily feel it on my rad . water in is defiantly hotter than water out . so im wondering if a single 120 rad wiht high flow fans right after the cpu and pump so whe the water is at it warmest there may eb soem gains or is the coolant constantly sub aambient ?

I have no way of proving this but I would suspect the water in the loop is probably very close to being all the same temp - equilibrium.
In my set up, I have the reservoir before the Boreas.
The thermometer in the reservoir actually measures the water 3-4C less then the mtec s/w, go figure.
I am sure that is sensor measurement error but I wonder which one is closer to the truth.

[yokomo]

yeah could be true due to flow rates but i know for certain that when i push the vcore past the loops limit the rad get hot and thers definate delta ! afterall the water is being cooled by the rad but again if the chiller alone can hold the inelt temp to ambient or slighlty sub then the rad will not help.
be intersting to see somoneonw with 2 bores try em together

[flak-spammer]

SteveRo, how many Boreas systems do you actually have at your disposal? I seem to recall hearing that you had three but so far I've only seen two of them.

[SteveRo]

SteveRo, how many Boreas systems do you actually have at your disposal? I seem to recall hearing that you had three but so far I've only seen two of them.

I only have one boreas.
I have been thinking about adding a 2nd and putting them in series but there is complications - this from the (most helpful) folks at coolit -

""So I have some questions -

1. Can I take the little metal shelf off the side of the boreas w/o disrupting the tec and water block below it? See picture above. Do I need to be careful backing off the bolts and retightening?

2. Perhaps this is an obvious question - is two Boreas better than one? I'm thinking about putting two Boreas in series just prior to the cpu block.

3. Has anyone tried this before?

4. Can you use one mtec controller to use two Boreas to cool one cpu?

5. Where can I get just the barebones Boreas - meaning no mtec, no pump and no block?

6. The Boreas barebones would need to include the cabling to connect the Boreas to the mtec controller.

Thanks ahead of time for your help.


Alllrighty then...

1. The 'feet' for the Boreas aren't attached to anything important so yes you can take them off w/ out hurting anything. Keep in mind that its good to have the Boreas off the ground/floor so the fans can pull air through the whole heatsink and not just the top and sides.

2. Two Boreas are better than one. You'll see one of two things... either you can add twice the heat to the loop and maintain the same temps or you will reduce the temps of the loop while keeping the heatload constant. There are some installation intricacies involved.. see below

3. I don't have anyone doing them in series but I have some people doing 1 Boreas on the CPU an another on their 3 GPU's. Yes, they are happy

4. No, two Boreas will pull too much power across the PCB. There are two ways around this:
i) Two MTECs: you can't use two MTEC's at once because the software doesn't know which one to talk to but you create a setpoint for one MTEC (for the boreas you are least concerned about) and then unplug it and it will remember its setting. Then you plug in the other one and use it for temp reporting/control like you normally would. I have a couple of guys who do this with their GPU Boreas, setting a coolant target 15C higher than their idle coolant temp so its quiet when they aren't gaming and cold when they game.
ii) The other options whichs sounds more like what you will do is to just give the second Boreas straight power which means its going to blast all the time. If you want to do this, let us knwo and we'll help you with the power adapter cable you'll need to connect straight to your PSU

5. Direct from coolit - contact shawn.bouvier@coolitsystems.com or jon.stanley@coolitsystems.com

6. well... we'll connect it to something for you

ps. Be concious of your power requirements, each Boreas can pull ~140W at full blast
pss. If you are running more than 5C below ambient, be wary of condensation."

[SteveRo]

It just occurred to me - another interesting test for a multi boreas set up - is two boreas better in series or parallel?
From a boreas parallel vs series test can we draw any conclusions regarding the ongoing low vs high flow controversy?