Microsoft to open own stores, take on rivals Apple and Sony

[naokaji]

the ipod is way too overrated. a lot of my friends own ipods and were f-ing proud of it ("hey look, i got an ipod!"). then i came with my 130€ meizu m6, enabled some very neat features of the integrated DSP and all of them went like "[emo-mode]oww, man, the sound of that thing is amazing compared to my ipod =([/emo-mode]".

and it really is. hands down, the sound quality of the ipods is horrible. the most important thing about a mp3 player for me is sound quality.

I didn't say the ipod is better than others, it's just that it has become a fashion item and that social pressure has a big influence on which mp3 players sell in large numbers. I used to have a ipod myself, but sold it and got a creative zen 32GB and it's clearly better.

You are right though, it might work out for MS as a good advertisement if people get hands on experience with a Zune.

[Katanai]

This is not needed. I dunno, I guess they don't know what to do with their money anymore...

[AndrewL1950]

Sorry, RROD is still an issue, even for Elite owners.

It's an issue for older versions of the system. The insides of the Xbox have gotten a change 3 times already. It has nothing to do with Elites, Arcades and Pro's.

You have

The Original 360's - that suffer from RROD.

Falcons - Suffer from RROD, but less than the originals.

Jasper - Does not suffer from RROD or break more than any other piece of electronic equipment. Jasper has a completely re-designed mother board and a new 65NM graphics chip so it runs cooler and takes up less power.

The majority of 360's on the market are originals, repairs, or Falcons. So yes those still have RROD problems. However if you have a Jasper, it isn't an issue anymore.

[clayton]

My XBOX360 from launch is still kicking. I guess this is one golden system. Total temporarily RROD: 4-5 because of overheat.

[sdsdv10]

My prediction,

As the Zune is to the iPod,
so will the MS Store be to the Apple Store...

Nothing against MS, I have 5 Windows PCs at home (after starting out on Mac back in the late 80's).
Just like the Zune, they have a decent product (both HW and SW) just not market perception/cache of the iPod (or the Apple stores).
As others have stated, MS just doesn't seem to have the right product mix to make sense of going to the expense of opening retail stores. Will this really increase market share of Windows, MS Office, keyboards or mice? I don't thing so. As for the Xbox360, you can already go to many game shops or Wal-Marts and try the sytem out if your so inclined. I wish them the best of luck, but I suspect they will dump their retail stores 5-7 year range.

[Shaggy]

You guys are all crazy, Microsoft will WTF pwn apple like they did with the zune. Everyone I know has a brown zune, we call ourselves the sh1t brick boys.

[Papu]

omg , hate apple stores , the holier than thou attitude , and just grrrr makes me so angry....
Ms store would be cool , crazy stuff be goin on , like sprinklers goin off and the alarm , everything crashing , and people just igniting into flames..

[Kingcarcas]

^ LOL I've found Sandisk to make nice budget mp3 players so i don't care for either. Also from what i've seen on gamespot the 65nm Jasper chips don't mean people no longer get the RROD.

[Bobsama]

the ipod is way too overrated. a lot of my friends own ipods and were f-ing proud of it ("hey look, i got an ipod!"). then i came with my 130€ meizu m6, enabled some very neat features of the integrated DSP and all of them went like "[emo-mode]oww, man, the sound of that thing is amazing compared to my ipod =([/emo-mode]".

and it really is. hands down, the sound quality of the ipods is horrible. the most important thing about a mp3 player for me is sound quality.

but now let's get back to topic:
i think ms really has some chances with such stores. someone already mentioned that people visit apple stores not to buy things but to see them, play with them and get a clue of how they look & feel.
that's probably the main point of ms' plan as well: promote their products and convince people of how good their products are.

ms got the money, they got the marketing and they also have a good product portfolio. so why not?

MP3s & good sound quality? That's a laugh!

[Chad Boga]

With all the good advanced publicity that Windows 7 has been receiving, I wonder if that is what pushed Microsoft over the edge to start up their own shops like Apple?

Whilst Apple's marketshare has increased mainly on the strength of the ipod craze, I'm sure all the negative publicity that Vista generated helped a lot too.

I hope if this goes ahead in a big way that over the next year and longer that Microsoft release more mice and keyboard options and this will give me a place to go to and check it all out.

I know Zune has been a sales dud, but have any of you guys tried it out and if so, what did you think?

[twilyth]

MS opening up stores is like Drakes opening stores that just sell Funny Bones . . . and maybe milk. It's an interesting concept, but it's not going to make a profit.

The best option for MS is to do the 'store within a store' thing and partner up with a natural ally like Best Buy or one of the big office supply chains like Staples. That gives you guaranteed foot traffic. It also eliminates the need to try to compete in the low margin white box segment. The MS store would just be an extension of their existing computer hardware departments.

But honestly, what is the point? Is MS looking to become a hardware company? That would be insane. You get a much nicer markup on software. Like someone said earlier (quote below), it mainly gives people the chance to see and interact with MS software products. In the past, this was never an issue because people just pirated the software. That's not an option any more for the average user.

Will they paint the walls blue so a BSOD doesn't stand out so much?

Good idea, but I don't think they'll ever get the color just right.

i think ms really has some chances with such stores. someone already mentioned that people visit apple stores not to buy things but to see them, play with them and get a clue of how they look & feel.
that's probably the main point of ms' plan as well: promote their products and convince people of how good their products are.

Yup.

[Soulburner]

MP3s & good sound quality? That's a laugh!

No it isn't. Ever heard of LAME and VBR?

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=LAME
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...howtopic=28124

[Salavat23]

Its a great idea IMO.

They can sell zunes, xbox 360s, accessories, games for xbox, games for Windows, Vista-ready computer perhiperals, vista operating systems, other Microsoft software, and maybe a few PCs.

[Kingcarcas]

The best option for MS is to do the 'store within a store' thing and partner up with a natural ally like Best Buy or one of the big office supply chains like Staples. That gives you guaranteed foot traffic.

This, i would never step foot in an Apple store but i will admit to tinkering with a few things in the Apple section at my local Fry's.

[DragoonXX]

I know when FS still had both generations of the Imacs (the pure white ones and the grey ones) I know I changed both to the same brightness level and background and just watched as people went by and looked at the image difference...I probably turned off at least 10 people in half an hour

[STaRGaZeR]

No it isn't. Ever heard of LAME and VBR?

http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=LAME
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...howtopic=28124

Are you trying to say that MP3 sounds good or I'm reading it wrong?

If it's sarcasm -->
If you're serious -->

[strange|ife]

who even goes to the apple store or sony store? seriously

much less a Microsoft store.

and about Zune, I have a zune 120GB and its fine, SQ is pretty good, the zune software stinks though.

once you get your library sorted out with the meta tag info, it works very well. I had great issue at first because all my music was disorgainzed and mainly taken from various sources online and not directly ripped from my personal cd library..used media monkey and was able to get it mostly sorted over a 4 day period. The zune is a car queen, the only place I listen to music, outside of my bedroom.

[perkam]

I've seen the Windows 7 pricing. There's no way I'm walking into an MS store unless its to see their employees' reaction to me telling them that I dloaded it off the net (I do buy actual copies though...of OS's that work and make sense..like XP).

Perkam

[Xope_Poquar]

Are you trying to say that MP3 sounds good or I'm reading it wrong?

If it's sarcasm -->
If you're serious -->

I've tried so hard to justify FLAC and CD quality audio over mp3's through "blind taste tests" but I can't do it. I've always "felt" they're better but I tried to back it up one day with some tests. I compared song after song after song with my eyes closed trying to say which one is the high quality version, and which is the low quality mp3 and I couldn't score better than chance. And those were measly 192kbps mp3's. I tried everything from metal, to techno, to classical, to THX sound effects. All were originally FLAC before being converted to mp3 of course.

I only have Logitech Z5500s with my X-FI Xtreme Music, so maybe that's the limiter of my sound quality.

[Soulburner]

Are you trying to say that MP3 sounds good or I'm reading it wrong?

If it's sarcasm -->
If you're serious -->

Either you haven't tried a properly encoded mp3 or you're acting high, mightly and elitist about what you think your "golden ears" can or cannot tell the difference between. I'll assume the former to give you the benefit of the doubt. Yes, .MP3s can and do sound good unless they were ripped with Windows Media Player.

[Soulburner]

I've tried so hard to justify FLAC and CD quality audio over mp3's through "blind taste tests" but I can't do it. I've always "felt" they're better but I tried to back it up one day with some tests. I compared song after song after song with my eyes closed trying to say which one is the high quality version, and which is the low quality mp3 and I couldn't score better than chance. And those were measly 192kbps mp3's. I tried everything from metal, to techno, to classical, to THX sound effects. All were originally FLAC before being converted to mp3 of course.

When encoded with LAME into VBR almost no one can tell the difference. Its goal is transparancy compared to the original while saving space where it can.

I only have Logitech Z5500s with my X-FI Xtreme Music, so maybe that's the limiter of my sound quality.

That's definitely the weakest link. The Z-5500's are not good with music

[Turok]

I've tried so hard to justify FLAC and CD quality audio over mp3's through "blind taste tests" but I can't do it. I've always "felt" they're better but I tried to back it up one day with some tests. I compared song after song after song with my eyes closed trying to say which one is the high quality version, and which is the low quality mp3 and I couldn't score better than chance. And those were measly 192kbps mp3's. I tried everything from metal, to techno, to classical, to THX sound effects. All were originally FLAC before being converted to mp3 of course.

I only have Logitech Z5500s with my X-FI Xtreme Music, so maybe that's the limiter of my sound quality.

I also have a Z-5500 and didn't notice any differences, but you CAN notice a difference if you use high fidelity headphones of $200+
I'm using an Ultrasone HFI-780 with my X-Fi Fatal1ty, and I gave my brother my Z-5500 since I practically don't use it anymore

You'll probably need a special home theater room with well calibrated, hifi speakers to get a comparable quality to hifi headphones. Of course, you can't beat a sub's bass with headphones

In terms of compression, I would say there's practically no difference between uncompressed vs lossless compression, but there is between lossless vs lossy compression.

[RaZz!]

I also have a Z-5500 and didn't notice any differences, but you CAN notice a difference if you use high fidelity headphones of $200+
I'm using an Ultrasone HFI-780 with my X-Fi Fatal1ty, and I gave my brother my Z-5500 since I practically don't use it anymore

You'll probably need a special home theater room with well calibrated, hifi speakers to get a comparable quality to hifi headphones. Of course, you can't beat a sub's bass with headphones

In terms of compression, I would say there's practically no difference between uncompressed vs lossless compression, but there is between lossless vs lossy compression.

yes, you really need some proper/good headphones or speaker to hear the difference between a good encoded mp3 and lossless flac (and even then the filesize of flac files doesn't justify the small benefit in sound quality...).

and exactly here is the failure in the logic of some people here: we're talking about mp3 players respectively mobile music players - with earphones. one can't expect to hear any advantage of flac with such a hardware.

for my everyday use mp3s with a cbr of 192kbps and more as well as a vbr of 214kbps and more is enough.

[Soulburner]

I also have a Z-5500 and didn't notice any differences, but you CAN notice a difference if you use high fidelity headphones of $200+
I'm using an Ultrasone HFI-780 with my X-Fi Fatal1ty, and I gave my brother my Z-5500 since I practically don't use it anymore

You'll probably need a special home theater room with well calibrated, hifi speakers to get a comparable quality to hifi headphones. Of course, you can't beat a sub's bass with headphones

In terms of compression, I would say there's practically no difference between uncompressed vs lossless compression, but there is between lossless vs lossy compression.

Here's some food for thought.

I have an Auzentech Prelude doing my audio output. It goes to my Onkyo 5.1 receiver which does no processing, but outputs to my 5.1 Athena home theater speakers on stands and my 10" Velodyne sub. The sound is amazing, playing games and movies on this thing is arguably better than 99% of computers out there and even puts a lot of novice home theaters to shame. My $16 KOSS KSC75 headphones still sound a little better, save for the ridiculous bass of the Velodyne of course. You really have to spend tons to equal good headphones. Of course though, the KSC75's have a cult-like status for their sound quality, look them up

Thread has run its course, time to move to Tech Talk.

[MaxxxRacer]

Are you trying to say that MP3 sounds good or I'm reading it wrong?

If it's sarcasm -->
If you're serious -->

sigh.. one of those audiophile people that think they can hear the difference when there is none. On anything but the most retardedly overpriced audiphile gear, there is 0 difference between LAME MP3 320kbit and CD. And if you want to talk about SACD and DVDA, well then you probably already have the audiophile gear, and congratulations to you. And if you do, most likely there are no portable headphones that would make you happy, therefore you dont belong in this conversation in the first place.

On my home setup, the only time when I noticed a difference between 192kbit and 320 was with my stax headphones. and I compared the stax with 320kbit mp3 and CD, but I was unable to discern a difference.

Another test I did was with Bohemian Rhapsody. I had the 320kbit MP3 and the Original CD playing from my dads system at home. Its a Marantz vintage amp connected to NHT 2.9's. Wonderful sounding setup and I couldnt tell the difference, nor could my dad who has been a musician, sound engineer and studio tech for the last 35 years.

The truth of the mater is that, for most audiophile gear, its all in your head. You think you need something better and you purchase it. Then when you have it, you tell yourself its soo much better because you just spend thousands of dollars on speaker wire and dont want to feel like a moron.