Texas death row inmate pulls out eye, eats it

[Speederlander]

The justice system needs an overhaul, as it stands it's main function is to generate maximum income for lawyers and judges, most of whom are taking money illegally.
Cases are traded (I'll let you win this one if you let me win that one), rulings are sold through an insider network, cops and judges ask for "favors" (free merchandise) in exchange for leniency in cases that may come up in the future.
I'm not guessing, Ive seen it from the inside and our judicial system couldn't possibly be any more f*ed up than it is now.

I agree. My only comment would be that wouldn't an "expedited" death penalty require this overhaul before it was put into place?

[dengyong]

I agree. My only comment would be that wouldn't an "expedited" death penalty require this overhaul before it was put into place?

Yes, with the exception of a few cases like this one.

[alexio]

Killing a man can feel just at best. It can only feel nice if you didn't have enough justification in the first place. Pure hate can only blind a person and thus is a reason not to take action, rather than a reason to do take action. Imprinting this basic principle in your mind is the first step to a much happier life imo.

Money is not a reason to kill someone rather than to lock him away. When you decide to kill people to effectively make money you also don't have a problem to wage war for money, to steal for money, to corrupt etc. You'd only not do it because it can get you in trouble and not because the actual acts are bad/horrible. Eventually you'll probably even feel the need to commit those acts because they give a sense of meaning in your life (for example: making money, showing off power). This is, in he very essence, the reason for realpolitik (or, power politics) and capitalism.

To understand others we need to understand and accept that all of us can commit horrible crimes, under conditions. There could be a million reasons why the guy got insane, there could also be no percivable reasons at all. But, who are we to judge with so little background information? Judging is an act of insecurity. It's even inherent in the language (we need a judge for security...). Fear is such a primitive motive compared to other options like oppertunity, knowledge and eventually altruism.

[phelan1777]

Killing a man can feel just at best.

I wouldn't say its a matter of not so much insecurity more so an issue of logic/reasoning?

Just cause for a action?

I mean if I just walk up to someone and kill then, out of simple want?

Where is the Justification?

Maybe the mindset @ time had reasonable just cause to the individual but that doesn't make it legal.

If someone is threatening someone I love/care for then I have the "right" to stop the thread by any means necessary but of course that can be easily complicated as well.

There is no reasonable justification for killing a child. Unless the slight chance that the child is purely and inherently evil.

The man killed an infant.....not to mention pulling his own eyes out.

If that is not a sign of some sort of derangement out of the "norm" then i don't know what is.

[rogueagent6]

To understand others we need to understand and accept that all of us can commit horrible crimes, under conditions. There could be a million reasons why the guy got insane, there could also be no percivable reasons at all. But, who are we to judge with so little background information? Judging is an act of insecurity. It's even inherent in the language (we need a judge for security...). Fear is such a primitive motive compared to other options like oppertunity, knowledge and eventually altruism.

The fact that he gouged his own eyes out AFTER cutting the hearts out of two children, not to mention the mother, is not enough information for you?

I don't care that he went insane, I think we all know that he went insane, but this man needs to be put out of everyone's misery. End of story.

[HuffPCair]

The fact that he gouged his own eyes out AFTER cutting the hearts out of two children, not to mention the mother, is not enough information for you?

I don't care that he went insane, I think we all know that he went insane, but this man needs to be put out of everyone's misery. End of story.

Agreed anyone that can kill a child and not feel anything about that needs to just be taken out of this place.

For Alexio or how ever you spell it REALLY. I mean how much information do you need of this guy, and since we are all judging him so much how about they let you go sit in a room with him with no one else in there and nothing holding him down. I bet you wouldnt do it, cause I know for sure hell I wouldnt. The guy is insane and needs to be killed for what he did.

[MikeB12]

I think Alexio is a little biased by the way the dutch handle it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital...he_Netherlands
for example:

Today the Netherlands operates a clear policy against capital punishment, such as not participating in extradition if the suspect has even the slightest chance of receiving the death penalty.

that's pretty sad, I guess I know where to run if I ever get hit with a murder charge.


if it were an idealistic and perfect world we wouldn't have bad people doing bad things.. everyone would love and everything would be a bowl of warm and fuzzy cherries. but the world is not perfect and in human civilization we hold people accountable for their actions (insane or not), the action still bears individual responsibility. if we did not do this, we might as well go back to living like cavemen and let the brutes with the biggest sticks and most members do whatever they want to the rest of the cavemen (rape, pillage, steal and kill at will) with no repercussions.

I understand what alexio is saying, it is the basic principle that hate is a destructive force, it will destroy you and everyone around you if left unchecked... but if anyone thinks the human population can ever be a place of perfect harmony, they are deluding themselves or hiding their head in the sand. Human nature will never allow a perfect world, it's pure and simple biological evolutionary fact.

and make no mistake, this guy that killed his family, even though he is insane; he is evil, there is no other motive behind his almost inconceivable actions but evil... insane, out of his mind or whatever. evil was still the underlying force that drove his actions.

[Polizei]

Just noting we seem to have a Judge that needs to be disbarred. That individual has serious mental issues...very serious mental issues.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, it's just that a judge's matters more in a courtroom than yours or mine.

Judges are in their position to give their opinion on laws. He looked at evidence and testimony prior to the trial and used that to decide the murderer was sane enough for trial.

Look up what a judge is there to do... give his opinion and decide what needs to be done.

[Speederlander]

but the world is not perfect and in human civilization we hold people accountable for their actions (insane or not), the action still bears individual responsibility. if we did not do this, we might as well go back to living like cavemen and let the brutes with the biggest sticks and most members do whatever they want to the rest of the cavemen (rape, pillage, steal and kill at will) with no repercussions.

Right, but holding people responsible does not defacto require execution. Nor does not executing someone mean they were not held responsible. And Alexio was not saying people should not be held responsible.

and make no mistake, this guy that killed his family, even though he is insane; he is evil, there is no other motive behind his almost inconceivable actions but evil... insane, out of his mind or whatever. evil was still the underlying force that drove his actions.

It's not a matter of "evil", its the choices people make (for all the gazillion reasons people make various choices), wiring, chemical processes, etc. There is no diabolic force behind it. We can lump certain actions together and label them "evil", but evil is what we call it, not the reason behind it.

[dengyong]

If you put a man in prison for life, does he still have a life or is he worse than dead ?

[Speederlander]

If you put a man in prison for life, does he still have a life or is he worse than dead ?

Depends on the person. For many, life in a tiny cell is worse than death. For others, death is worse.

[MikeB12]

Right, but holding people responsible does not defacto require execution. Nor does not executing someone mean they were not held responsible. And Alexio was not saying people should not be held responsible.

well, that's for the law to decide in our civilization... not for you, or me, or anyone here. all we have is an opinion. you can debate the subject all you want here. but it's not going to change the way the law is handled and dished out in different countries or states... or who is sentenced to death and who is not.

It's not a matter of "evil", its the choices people make (for all the gazillion reasons people make various choices), wiring, chemical processes, etc. There is no diabolic force behind it. We can lump certain actions together and label them "evil", but evil is what we call it, not the reason behind it.

Evil describes willful, immoral acts. Evil, in many cultures, is a broad term used to describe intentional negative moral acts or thoughts that are cruel, unjust or selfish.

I dont know what other term you would use to describe killing your family and eating their flesh.

[MikeB12]

TBH Speeder, I think your OP turned into exactly what you wanted it to be. a little personal slice of SF squeezed into WAMPS.

[Speederlander]

well, that's for the law to decide in our civilization... not for you, or me, or anyone here. all we have is an opinion. you can debate the subject all you want here. but it's not going to change the way the law is handled and dished out in different countries or states... or who is sentenced to death and who is not.

No, the law is written by people you and I elect or who are appointed by those we elect. My point was that execution is not a requirement for being held responsible and that Alexio was not saying people shouldn't be held responsible.

Evil describes willful, immoral acts. Evil, in many cultures, is a broad term used to describe intentional negative moral acts or thoughts that are cruel, unjust or selfish.

I dont know what other term you would use to describe killing your family and eating their flesh

My only comment on "evil" was that it is not a "force" of its own causing people to commit these acts. Labeling things evil is too easy. In Iran the state labels all kinds of actions, including things we take for granted as rights, evil. The term evil is a shortcut, sometimes appropriate, more often than not simply used to gloss over all the shades of grey. A lot of juries have almost certainly convicted people who turned out to be innocent because they were convinced the person was "evil". Juries are too often easily manipulated by skilled attorneys.

[Speederlander]

TBH Speeder, I think your OP turned into exactly what you wanted it to be. a little personal slice of SF squeezed into WAMPS.

Not so much. I liked the headline. People talk about what they want to talk about. Just about any topic in wamps could be skewed into politics or other forbidden areas by someone intent on doing so. There was almost a whole page of interesting discussion before I even jumped back in.

Your handgun thread is easily SF material with no effort whatsoever in that thread. Indeed it starts with:
sorry to be asking this ques here in Wamps..

Here's another thread on the ":banana::banana::banana::banana: industry bailout" that goes nowhere but to politics and economics:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=213701&page=2

Point being, some threads can go either way.

[jason str]

Just watching Mike's U-Tube clip made me run to the kitchen to make myself a hard boiled egg.

[alexio]

I wouldn't say its a matter of not so much insecurity more so an issue of logic/reasoning?

Killing the guy is probably the best option in the short term and certainly for him, I won't argue that. In the long run it's more benificial for people to learn how to control their hate. Like I said, almost all people can commit horrendous crimes. Judging others is the first symptom of hate. I wouldn't be arguing judgement if people would spend as much time helping each other out and making the world a better place, as the time they spend judging others.

Just cause for a action?

I mean if I just walk up to someone and kill then, out of simple want?

Where is the Justification?

There is no justification. Surely we agree on that.

Maybe the mindset @ time had reasonable just cause to the individual but that doesn't make it legal.

And for good reasons. I'm not arguing the law in the broad sense. I'm arguing the death penalty specifically and people's mindsets in general.

If someone is threatening someone I love/care for then I have the "right" to stop the thread by any means necessary but of course that can be easily complicated as well.

Yes, and you should defend him/her, but only for pragmatic reasons. Would you start a handfight with an unarmed agressor and maybe break your own arm, or would you shoot the person or hit him on the head with a bat, possibly killing him? I'd probably rather break an arm, loose an eye, etcetera than kill the agressor.

There is no reasonable justification for killing a child. Unless the slight chance that the child is purely and inherently evil.

The man killed an infant.....not to mention pulling his own eyes out.

If that is not a sign of some sort of derangement out of the "norm" then i don't know what is.

The guy is bat crazy, we agree on that. Unfortunately we don't know about any medical conditions (which are possibly relatively easily fixed) and so on. Should people that eat their own be killed too? Surely they could pose a threat to others at some point in time. Judging about these things gets much harder when you really think about them. Thinking about these sad stories and understanding how to avoid them in our own lifes is the only real lesson we can all learn from these sad stories. Killing the guy will teach nobody anything at all.

The fact that he gouged his own eyes out AFTER cutting the hearts out of two children, not to mention the mother, is not enough information for you?

I don't care that he went insane, I think we all know that he went insane, but this man needs to be put out of everyone's misery. End of story.

Like I said earlier it's much more important to learn from the situation than anything else. And wouldn't it be the highest achievement for any human being to breathe some humanity into this person? If you know how to do that you can change the world for the better.

Agreed anyone that can kill a child and not feel anything about that needs to just be taken out of this place.

For Alexio or how ever you spell it REALLY. I mean how much information do you need of this guy, and since we are all judging him so much how about they let you go sit in a room with him with no one else in there and nothing holding him down. I bet you wouldnt do it, cause I know for sure hell I wouldnt. The guy is insane and needs to be killed for what he did.

I wouldn't sit in a room with the guy for no reason. If I knew it would help him I may do it.

I think Alexio is a little biased by the way the dutch handle it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital...he_Netherlands
for example:

that's pretty sad, I guess I know where to run if I ever get hit with a murder charge.

Or for the reason that The Netherlands is a much safer place to live? How paradoxal. Maybe your logic is flawed

if it were an idealistic and perfect world we wouldn't have bad people doing bad things.. everyone would love and everything would be a bowl of warm and fuzzy cherries. but the world is not perfect and in human civilization we hold people accountable for their actions (insane or not), the action still bears individual responsibility. if we did not do this, we might as well go back to living like cavemen and let the brutes with the biggest sticks and most members do whatever they want to the rest of the cavemen (rape, pillage, steal and kill at will) with no repercussions.

Of course you are 100% right. What I'm arguing is that the longer term effect of certain choices in life and political policies are much more complicated than the eye for eye principle. Good = good and bad = bad just doesn't exist in anything but a mathematical equation.

I understand what alexio is saying, it is the basic principle that hate is a destructive force, it will destroy you and everyone around you if left unchecked... but if anyone thinks the human population can ever be a place of perfect harmony, they are deluding themselves or hiding their head in the sand. Human nature will never allow a perfect world, it's pure and simple biological evolutionary fact.

There is no proof for a human nature. If a child gets raised by a flock of chickens it will behave like a chicken. That is a fact. If Israeli children get thought Palistines are bad and vice versa the people in that generation will behave badly on both sides. This goes for everything. Human beings are what they choose to be. Perfection will never be chosen but a utopia should be as a goal.

and make no mistake, this guy that killed his family, even though he is insane; he is evil, there is no other motive behind his almost inconceivable actions but evil... insane, out of his mind or whatever. evil was still the underlying force that drove his actions.

He is merely very very dysfunctional in our society. "Evil" is too subjective. I'm not saying that I would like him to be my friend or father, that is not my point at all. I am not defending him, I'm defending not killing him because eventually such a policy (not killing him) will bring more peace of mind in all people.

[rogueagent6]

Like I said earlier it's much more important to learn from the situation than anything else. And wouldn't it be the highest achievement for any human being to breathe some humanity into this person? If you know how to do that you can change the world for the better.

I can see where that would be beneficial, but what do you tell the parents of his wife, and grandparents of his children? I'm sorry that he butchered your daughter and her two children, but we are going to keep him alive to study him?

[alexio]

I can see where that would be beneficial, but what do you tell the parents of his wife, and grandparents of his children? I'm sorry that he butchered your daughter and her two children, but we are going to keep him alive to study him?

I'd say: Let's see how we can improve society to never let this happen again to you or others. Never = reduce the chances.

Apart from the initial "thank God" kind of feeling after a conviction there is no triumph of getting rid of someone. In any event, the family members need special care, let's not forget that. The first part of acceptance, which needs to happen at some level at least, is to accept that whatever you do to anyone is not going to help you. In some sense, you need that horrible person to be alive for that. Plus, dying is the easy way out for the criminal.

[dengyong]

I'd say: Let's see how we can improve society to never let this happen again to you or others. Never = reduce the chances.

Apart from the initial "thank God" kind of feeling after a conviction there is no triumph of getting rid of someone. In any event, the family members need special care, let's not forget that. The first part of acceptance, which needs to happen at some level at least, is to accept that whatever you do to anyone is not going to help you. In some sense, you need that horrible person to be alive for that. Plus, dying is the easy way out for the criminal.

Wow...you're preaching peace and love while calling everyone with a myspace page an "emo bastard" in your sig.

Doesn't that make you a hypocrite.

[alexio]

Wow...you're preaching peace and love while calling everyone with a myspace page an "emo bastard" in your sig.

Doesn't that make you a hypocrite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humour

If you feel offended by my sig I'll gladly change it.

[dengyong]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humour

If you feel offended by my sig I'll gladly change it.

No sir, I am not offended (by your sig). I'm just pointing out that you don't practice what you preach.

[alexio]

No sir, I am not offended (by your sig). I'm just pointing out that you don't practice what you preach.

I mean to preach reason. To me humour is a nice way of communicating, so it is only reasonable to use it. I know my sig will give some people a laugh (which I'm glad about) and I thrust that people will communicate it with me if they feel offended by it (which I find unlikely). I'm a human and not a robot, so I express myself

I glad you picked up the possitive message though

Let's get back ontopic.

[rogueagent6]

I'd say: Let's see how we can improve society to never let this happen again to you or others. Never = reduce the chances.

Apart from the initial "thank God" kind of feeling after a conviction there is no triumph of getting rid of someone. In any event, the family members need special care, let's not forget that. The first part of acceptance, which needs to happen at some level at least, is to accept that whatever you do to anyone is not going to help you. In some sense, you need that horrible person to be alive for that. Plus, dying is the easy way out for the criminal.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. I feel it's quite obvious that the individual is beyond help at this point. Anything in the future will basically be a burden on society and life support for him.

[dengyong]

I've come up with a brilliant idea....we can deport Mr. eye plucker to the netherlands and the people there will love and support him for the rest of his natural life.