AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Quad Core Processor Socket AM2+ 8MB Retail Box (HDZ940XCGIBOX)
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AMD Phenom II X4 920 Quad Core Processor Socket AM2+ 8MB Retail Box (HDX920XCGIBOX)
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Brother_Esau There are many that don't wear green blinders, and actually research things before they buy. He's right. It would be rediculous for him to buy a Ph2 at that price point when a Q6600 would outperform it. He didn't say anything about an i7, though I can see why you'd divert the subject. He can buy a full bare bones Q6600 system and have a very cost effective system.
Of course he could also buy that i7 system you mentioned at the higher price point and would be in a completely different league. Bringing up i7's in an AMD Thread is not a real smart move when the benchmarks are now out. You may not be aware of it, but it's not looking too good for AMD right now. That definitely won't make AMD look any better, and right now is not a good time to be posting stuff that's gonna further hurt AMD's sales.
Many of us do not want to see anything bad happen to AMD. Posting fanboy BS is only further hurting them.
For Q6600 being able to outperform it,the same must work at 3.7+Ghz on air cooling,and this is assuming parity in IPC between the two(which in real apps is not the case-Deneb will be somewhat faster,be it a few percent so Q6600 would need to run even above 3.7Ghz on air for 24/7).Originally Posted by T_Flight
he might be phenom II's prices should drop pretty fast after the release of the am3 versions and possibly after the release of the athlon X4s later. and if we are lucky amd and intel will get in a price war and who knows how low stuff will get.guess you wont be buying one thenGo dump $1400.00 on i7 you manly man
ehhhhh im still confused about this whole q6600 thing outperforming a phenom II.
Yeah,somehow someone said it at some point and now it became a fact lol. And Phenom II is not officially launched yet nor fully tested on reputable sites
overclocker_gr did a clock for clock comparison between i7, C2Q (Yorkfield and Kentsfield) and Deneb and be hold, Deneb was slower than Kentsfield by a tiny bit.Yeah,somehow someone said it at some point and now it became a fact lol
I do appreciate the tests they(hwbox) done,but I'd rather wait for more reputable sites to post their scores.It may support the numbers from Greek site,but it may as well show some other aspects. Deneb needs to be just 6% faster than Agena,per clock on average in order to beat Kentsfield. From the initial tests we have seen the delta between the Deneb and Agena is north of 6%.
Last edited by informal; 01-04-2009 at 04:35 PM.
There is a clock for clock review. Lemme go find it, and I'll post the link.
It's definitely not one of these cases where "somebody said it" as informal just spouted off. It's based on an actual review with just about every benchmark one could think of. Some don't like the results obviously, but that won't change the results.
I'll edit thes post with the URL. It was moved so it'll take me a minute or so to find it again.
Edited: Here's the link to the thread about the review ---> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=213200
Last edited by T_Flight; 01-04-2009 at 04:38 PM.
We have been discussing the hwbox.gr review a lot.It has a thread of its own... And yes,some of their numbers are a bit low(er) than expected or previously reported for Deneb. And yes,Kenstfield is beating Yorkfield and Nehalem in number of those tests from hwbox.gr so you can draw you own conclusions from that.
q6600=obsolete, everyone and their dogs knows about it. nothing to discuss.
ph2=new tech, new things to explore, discover. lots of things argue about on the forum
big difference for enthusiasts!
enthusiats are not the main market.q6600=obsolete, everyone and their dogs knows about it. nothing to discuss.
ph2=new tech, new things to explore, discover. lots of things argue about on the forum
big difference for enthusiasts!
Even if its old tech, whats the point to get new tech if it can't beat old tech?
The only thing that matters for people is Price/$, if P2 can deliver that people will buy it.
If the 920 drops below 200€ it would be my new recommendation for a cheap powerfull rig. But the prices i see right now.... meh... not that interesting.
202 overhere in pre-order.enthusiats are not the main market.
Even if its old tech, whats the point to get new tech if it can't beat old tech?
The only thing that matters for people is Price/$, if P2 can deliver that people will buy it.
If the 920 drops below 200€ it would be my new recommendation for a cheap powerfull rig. But the prices i see right now.... meh... not that interesting.
Im pretty shure it will b below 200 once they are in stock and every shop has them.
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Deleted my post due to its flaming nature. sry
Last edited by G0ldBr1ck; 01-04-2009 at 07:05 PM.
Particle's First Rule of Online Technical Discussion:
As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.
Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.
Rule 2:
When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.
Rule 2A:
When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.
Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!
Phenom 2 looks awesome from what has been shown so far. Prices may be a little high atm but when you can buy the highest model extreme chip for less than $350, no overclocking enthusiast should complain
i have seen it already. the q6600 gets some up on the phenom but not enough to be considered to be better. also phenom II beats it right out of the box where you would have to overclock the q6600 to beat the phenom. and even after that who says the phenom can't overclock past the q6600? if you are saying that the q6600 is better than the phenom II it either needs to A. beat it when both are stock or B. beat it when both are overclocked to their max. since phenom II isn't even out yet we don't know what the average overclock for it will be so you can't be so sure yet but its looking positive. plus since its a new chip it will advance over time after more bios updates and after people know how to use it better. the first phenoms didn't clock very well until after awhile when bios updates came out and people know how to use it. i remember when tony overclocked his 9850BE to 3.5ghz and everyone thought it was amazing. these days its just ehhhhh.
Does everyone here have like 100 grand lying around to do whatever? I don't understand how overclocking and tweaking alone can make a piece of hardware cool or interesting even if it consumes more power, performs inadequately, and has little monetary value to it when it comes to actually using it, versus a more competitive part. Yeah, most of you are "enthusiasts" who will buy anything that's new, but what about some of the more rational people among us who have a finite amount of money and are shopping for their future system to last them two or three years? I think their discussions are a million times more valuable. It's frustrating to me to see a lame duck made to look like gold every single time when the facts say otherwise.
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If you already have an AM2+ board then PHII will be of great value If you have a good 775 then PHII would not hold that much value.
If you have nothing than I think Intel and AMD are both going to have a Platform that equal eachother on price/perf.
As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.
Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.
When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.
When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.
Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!
What are the sources more reputable than the Greek site which has shown the IPC improvement for Deneb over Agena to be greater than 6%?I do appreciate the tests they(hwbox) done,but I'd rather wait for more reputable sites to post their scores
for starters you can't even say it has an ipc of 6% because most of the tests didn't matter. the 5 everest tests didn't matter, the 4 sandras didn't matter, wprime is useless. while i admit most of their benchmarks are correct many of them don't matter and won't show any real performance. its not that the site isn't reputable its just the fact that i have never heard of them until now and we know what to expect from sites we are used to because we are used to their testing methods, benchmarks, etc. plus it won't matter how reputable the site is you need more than one review to make a conclusion.
Agree, so what is Informal making his claims on?
Agree, so what is Informal making his claims on?plus it won't matter how reputable the site is you need more than one review to make a conclusion.
i think he is saying that because of all the other individual benchmarks we have seen online and you need to throw out the crappy tests to calculate the ipc. only three more days left and we should have plenty of reviews.
He has referred to more "reputable", so what makes the other individual benchmarks more reputable than the Greek site?
Cybercat: You seem like a bright an rational guy. I'll be honest I'm not really a big gamer, to me my favorite game is pushing hardware to it's edge and still keeping it stable...
As for the $100k thing, building a PhII system will be substantially cheaper than building an equivelant Intel system. Especially for people who already have boards that can use it as a drop in replacement.
Although I appreciate all the work OverClocker_gr @ HWBOX and the Greek guys have done I get the feeling that they don't really know how to tweak the PhII to make it shine. So before we start calling PhII a Non-competative and inadequate product with little monetary value, why don't we wait for the XS AMD folks who know how to tweak Phenoms get their hands on them and start posting results.
I'm not calling you a troll, but to call the PhII a "lame duck" based on the limited availabilty of the chip is a little out of line IMO...
Honestly, even Overclocker_gr's reviews show the chip to be quite competitve...
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We need more reviews and benchmarks. Different mobos and ram will surely yeild different results, some may be better and some may be worse. As the info rolls in though, PII is looking really great for any overclocking enthusiast
To make a general assumption Here just how many people on this forum make discussion on buying old hardware................Just about No One.
I am once again going off of the assumption that people will buy the latest and greatest which ever side of the fence that may reside Intel or AMD . So we have (Intel) i7 x58 platform (Nehalem) ////or.... (AMD) Phenom II with (Existing) SB600 , SB700 , SB750 Motherboards....
My Point is AMD is on par Performance with some of the recent Intel Penryn Quad Cores and that is a generation Ahead of the Q6600 how can you not consider a statement like that other then from a BONIFIED Intel FanBoy
You guys make me laugh your all just a bunch of phony yes men spewing a whole bunch of Intel Banter and you have the Nerve to empower yourselves as self proclaimed experts when just about none of you have had a AMD system since Socket (939) AND YET YOU SPEAK OF Fanboyism when someone who says anything positive about AMDF@cking Hipocrates!!!
I would give ya the Finger but there isn't a "Emoicon" for that one yet
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