AMD Athlon X2 3250e 22W TDP Processor

[Calmatory]

agreed


read this :

http://www.guru3d.com/article/ecs-at...p945gc-review/

...which includes motherboard components, RAM, Chipset, peripherals, hard drive/SSD/optical drive, PSU inefficiency and GPU. In other words: The whole system power consumption, not just the CPU+chipset.

The fact is that 945G SE Chipset + Dual core Atom have summed TDP less than 14W, no matter how you try to turn, twist or flip it. The AMD CPU? 22 W + Chipset.

IF This 22 W AMD CPU was SO great, why it isn't used for netbooks? Or, if AMD's K8 architecture scales so well @ 65nm, how does Intel's C2D Wolfdales do @ 45nm?

There is a reason why Intel made Atom instead of ULV Wolfdales.

[cdawall]

i just got a single core atom @ fry's with a 945 mobo for $60 when do these go on sale cause i might just return this and get the AMD version performance wise watt for watt it will smoke the intel setup not to mention this WILL decode HD video 1080P no issues at all while the intel will cry w/o a VGA card which kills the whole low watt idea.

[Calmatory]

i just got a single core atom @ fry's with a 945 mobo for $60 when do these go on sale cause i might just return this and get the AMD version performance wise watt for watt it will smoke the intel setup not to mention this WILL decode HD video 1080P no issues at all while the intel will cry w/o a VGA card which kills the whole low watt idea.

Oh, it is about HTPC now....

[chew*]

...which includes motherboard components, RAM, Chipset, peripherals, hard drive/SSD/optical drive, PSU inefficiency and GPU. In other words: The whole system power consumption, not just the CPU+chipset.

The fact is that 945G SE Chipset + Dual core Atom have summed TDP less than 14W, no matter how you try to turn, twist or flip it. The AMD CPU? 22 W + Chipset.

IF This 22 W AMD CPU was SO great, why it isn't used for netbooks? Or, if AMD's K8 architecture scales so well @ 65nm, how does Intel's C2D Wolfdales do @ 45nm?

There is a reason why Intel made Atom instead of ULV Wolfdales.

It uses onboard video, and the rest are requirements to run a system......it's not like they are comparing the amd cpu without all that to a ATOM with all of it............bottom line the amd platform draws just 5 more watts and performs better.

Once you put it in a platform its wattage consumption mounts to a hill of beans as well.........Intel took the low power cpu approach totally dismissing the platform as a whole, Amd took the low power as an entire platform approach which is smarter because you can't surf the inet via a chip sitting on your desk.........

You don't see them in netbooks yet because they just became available, we shall see in the next 6 months.

This discussion is over.......

[cdawall]

Oh, it is about HTPC now....

bah just looked into the jetway board $150 is a bit much considering how cheap the intel stuff is....

[accord99]

You don't see them in netbooks yet because they just became available, we shall see in the next 6 months.

This discussion is over.......

You don't see them in netbooks because 22W is far too much power to cool within a netbook. Current single-core Atoms netbooks use around 12W in total at full CPU load.

[justapost]

So 330 dual core atom consumes 14-15W?



Complete system with 4GB ram an HD2400pro, Hitachi 160GB 7200rpm SataII HD and totaly oversized watercooling consumes:

Idle: 67-68W AC
Load: 80W AC

So 12W difference with small fft's.

Abit unfair because I use the lowest possible voltage.

If I add 0.01V using 0.95V now



Idle: 68W AC
Load 82,5W AC

Difference 14,5W AC.

CoreDamage pushes IES to 21W but total system consumes 81.1-81.6W. Substract 30W from system consumption, because lowest I could reach with an 4850e was round 38W AC.

Few benchmarks for comparison with guru3d's 330 review


Drystone:
atom 330: 7804
4850e(1.5GHz): 8456

Mandel:
atom 330: 500
4850e(1.5GHz): 1401

At least for me, this is a closed case.

[accord99]

So 330 dual core atom consumes 14-15W?

A complete netbook using a dual core Atom would use around 14-15W under full CPU load.

At least for me, this is a closed case.

The point of Atom is a dirt-cheap CPU that has low enough of energy use to be put into a tiny and inexpensive package without worrying too much about cooling and whose performance is adequate for typical usage. Intel already has the unmatched C2D for any other mobile application where performance is of any importance whatsoever.

[justapost]

A complete netbook using a dual core Atom would use around 14-15W under full CPU load.

Ah ok, guru3d showed a total difference of 8W. Looking at mandel results it's still a closed case. With a 220W fortronn psu the total consumption of an X23250e system will be sub 50W.

Netbooks? OT.

The point of Atom is a dirt-cheap CPU that has low enough of energy use to be put into a tiny and inexpensive package without worrying too much about cooling and whose performance is adequate for typical usage. Intel already has the unmatched C2D for any other mobile application where performance is of any importance whatsoever.

Hmm miniITX board + 330 is in 70€-90€ price range here, do you really think 3250e+board will be more expensive?

I thinks it's similar to i7 vs. PI/C2/(PII ?). The cpu consumes more power under load but does the job quicker and ending up more energy effective overall.

[Nightstar]

IF This 22 W AMD CPU was SO great, why it isn't used for netbooks?

Uh... because you don't need anything more powerfull than an atom to run a browser or play solitaire?

There is a reason why Intel made Atom instead of ULV Wolfdales.

and that reason is because it's more cost effective.

[accord99]

Hmm miniITX board + 330 is in 70€-90€ price range here, do you really think 3250e+board will be more expensive?

Current AMD mini-itx motherboards aren't that cheap and they're already too large for netbooks. Besides, I don't think AMD really wants to get into this low-margin market.

I thinks it's similar to i7 vs. PI/C2/(PII ?). The cpu consumes more power under load but does the job quicker and ending up more energy effective overall.

Perhaps, but the mobiles, and netbooks in particular, constrain how much cooling you can put in.

[chew*]

Maybe for the netbook market but for the desktop market for average joe looking for sale items on best buy, sending an email, sharing pics with family over the net.........It's a valid market.....Its the only comparable desktop that completely sold out at best buys within 300 miles of me over the holiday season.......1650le's, 1 gig ram,nvidia chipset/onboard graphics with 160gb drives...........oddly enough I could still buy an atom netbook right up untill 6pm when everything closed at a bestbuy 5 miles from my house.

[BlueSkyNIS]

never mind....

[SupeRClockeR]

and...how much does this cpu cost?

[chew*]

and...how much does this cpu cost?

How much will it cost us or the OEM's. It's only being sold to oems, not to public......so it appears you will have to buy a barebones at the very least.

[Calmatory]

Justapost: Measuring wattage with software? ....


Original question was: "Is this better than Atom?". Is it? (Note: The thread is about CPU, the question was about the CPU, however someone wanted to take motherboards and platform in aswell.)
So, if one asks whether or not this is better than Atom, what would people answer? I remind, AMD ULV Desktop CPU with (Assuming it is a ULV Brisbane) 154M transistors @ 65nm, Intel ULV UMPC CPU with (around, 47M per core)95M transistors @ 45nm. The comparison is twofold: Desktop CPU vs UMPC CPU, other one shines in performance and other one shines in low power consumption. What matters the most? For desktops(in this case HTPC's aswell) the performance, and for UMPC(netbooks for example) applications the low power consumption.

The absolute facts: 3250e is faster. Atom is more energy efficient. There is no absolute answer/truth.

[nanohead]

it's meant to go head to head with atom, 1500 is all it needs

What really interesting is that it fits in the standard AM2 940 pin socket. The Atom requires you to use their NB/SB arrangement.

Interestingly, Intel is currently trying to prevent Nvidia from using Atom with a downscaled chipset they did called ION.

This could get interesting

[nanohead]

Do you understand that this AMD CPU is 1.5 GHz and has TDP of 22 W, while Intel Atom has TDP of less than 4 W? Dual Core Atoms will have TDP of 8 W.

You do the math.

Want to count the chipset in? 6W for the 945GSE chipset. So, 10 Watts for the CPU AND a chipset. Oh, that is less than 50 % of what AMD CPU takes alone.

Still possible?

These "TDP" numbers and arguments are all pretty bogus, totally splitting hairs. Anything below 25-30 watts is pretty good in general for these types of devices. Atoms also have SEVERE limitations which have caused their adoption to be stymied to some extent.

TDP numbers are the newest thing for "expert" review sites to talk about, but at those levels, it doesn't matter that much, unless you're doing a super low power battery based state device, which Atom is not really being used for (this is the ARM market)

The 10 watt difference between the 3250e and the Atom 330 is well worth the difference for those building a standard device and want to choose which components to use. Atom based stuff is NOT the standard PC market....

[Calmatory]

These "TDP" numbers and arguments are all pretty bogus, totally splitting hairs. Anything below 25-30 watts is pretty good in general for these types of devices. Atoms also have SEVERE limitations which have caused their adoption to be stymied to some extent.

TDP numbers are the newest thing for "expert" review sites to talk about, but at those levels, it doesn't matter that much, unless you're doing a super low power battery based state device, which Atom is not really being used for (this is the ARM market)

The 10 watt difference between the 3250e and the Atom 330 is well worth the difference for those building a standard device and want to choose which components to use. Atom based stuff is NOT the standard PC market....

You said it. ARM. Why wouldn't Intel want to get into ARM market with x86 CPU? That would allow people to run Windows and other x86 software on embedded devices, which currently run quite exclusively on ARM based CPU's.

I doubt this 3250e is trying to fight Atom really. Atom is also fighting VIA Nano, which is doing quite well. AMD also has to fight them.

As for TDP.. anything below 25-30W is good!? Have you ever used a device with a battery? What if the device is small, pocket sized?

No matter what the TDP is, Atom is way more energy efficient than what 3250e will ever be. <8 W vs.22 W.

[The Coolest]

You said it. ARM. Why wouldn't Intel want to get into ARM market with x86 CPU? That would allow people to run Windows and other x86 software on embedded devices, which currently run quite exclusively on ARM based CPU's.

I doubt this 3250e is trying to fight Atom really. Atom is also fighting VIA Nano, which is doing quite well. AMD also has to fight them.

As for TDP.. anything below 25-30W is good!? Have you ever used a device with a battery? What if the device is small, pocket sized?

No matter what the TDP is, Atom is way more energy efficient than what 3250e will ever be. <8 W vs.22 W.

The Atom as a CPU is indeed very power efficient, but take into account how power hungry the chipset is and how much superior the AMD offering is in both performance and power consumptions it's an easy decision for the desktop or embedded products as a platform. I'm not sure about you, but when I build a system, I select the components and take into consideration the platform as a whole, and not just the CPU alone. When it comes to power efficiency, and such low numbers we're discussing here, you need to consider the platform as a whole, not just the processor that goes in it.
The only big downside to the AMD platform that I see is the cost compared to the Intel offering.

[knopflerbruce]

I just won a 2650e on ebay, cost me $50 (!) My mom needs a pc for browsing (i hate it when she mess around with mine lol), this one should be quiet too. But $50..... OMG, I was expecting like half that price

[keyboard]

I just won a 2650e on ebay, cost me $50 (!) My mom needs a pc for browsing (i hate it when she mess around with mine lol), this one should be quiet too. But $50..... OMG, I was expecting like half that price

that's cheap enough .
it's dual core isn't it ?
i must pay 43 $ for 3500+ single core down here .

[The Coolest]

2650e is single core, 1.6GHz and 512KB L2
3250e is a dual core, 1.5GHz and 512KB L2 per core.

[justapost]

Justapost: Measuring wattage with software? ....

I mesure with an power meter and use IES in addition. Tool is uesd to controll phases so it reads from a sensor at the voltage regulator. Previous measurements have shown it's quite accurate. For phenoms it must be taken into consideration that this tool does not measure the separate nb phase.

Guy's on HT4U measured NB consumption on that phase with an modified board and an clamp meter. Was round 12-15W idle and 15W under load.
They had also measured the other four phases. I compared my IES results with them and they where quite accurate.

So I assume IES reading is good. I do not trust software readings in general.

[mAJORD]

some more underclocking action to stir with






And a Video of heatsink-less cinebench run as mentioned earlier



http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=qnZz28L_R48



Enjoy