CoolIT Boreas

[bldegle2]

SteveRo,

I am using the stock pump that came with the Freezone, the way the Pelt chiller works (low volts to six teacs, about 5v each, helps keeps the hot side temps under control), is the SLOWER movement of the water through the chiller and past each pelt which allows for super chilling, and then the delivery of really cool water to the block, if you use a higher flow pump it will not work as well.....this is contrary to a regular water system with high flow, trust me when I say a higher output pump would not work properly. You have to approach these setups with an open mind, they work on a little different principal than regular water....

However, replacing the waterblock to one of better quality will result in about 2/3*c better temps.....

I made sure to mount my radiator so the pump doesn't have to push hard up a long uphill, the top inflow on the DangerGen is the high point, makes for easy filling and bleeding with a new turkey baster (it has got to be 'clean', I have one dedicated for use on my water setup, never used for anything else)......I did think about adding a reservoir for easier filling, haven't ruled it out completely....if you bleed it properly, it works flawlessly as a closed loop...

The pump works very well with the added radiator...like I said in my OP, I wish I had done it sooner.....what I like about the setup as I have it, very compact and efficient, temps rival just about any normal water setup, maybe even a bit better over real long periods of time as I don't have to worry about water warming in high volume systems on long stress runs, it flat lines once it reaches max, and just stays there....

True water enthusiasts may laugh at my cooling setup, but it works rather well I think...

Regarding the pump, you want one that does somewhere between 210 to 235 Liters/hour, this is a little less than 1/2 of what big water users want for flow (500L/hr), and I am using 1/4" ID tubing instead of 3/8" or 1/2" which makes for very easy routing, yes it flies in the face of normal water, but it is very efficient....

laterzzzzz...................

[aspire.comptech]

snipped

In any water cooling loop with a radiator higher flow will dominate lower flow, more passes through the radiator results in more heat dissipated.

If you swapped in a higher flow pump I would bet you'd see a nice drop in load temps.

[demonkevy666]

In any water cooling loop with a radiator higher flow will dominate lower flow, more passes through the radiator results in more heat dissipated.

If you swapped in a higher flow pump I would bet you'd see a nice drop in load temps.

I don't think so. It's already cooled water. So it will take longer to heat it and cool, then a normal water cooling setup.

[NaeKuh]

I don't think so. It's already cooled water. So it will take longer to heat it and cool, then a normal water cooling setup.

Greater Flow > Lacking Flow.

As he said more passes in the same amount of time. Water works on a principle of equalibirum. If the water is colder then ambients, then no, it wouldnt take very long for the water to heat up unless insulated.

[bldegle2]

I rest my case, again regular water users insist on a high volume pump, this is NOT the WAY SUPER CHILLING works with a Freezone, you have to move the water slowly past the pelts, you move it fast and the water will not have 'time to to supercool', in fact, I actually tried a higher volume pump because I thought the added radiator would pull the original pump down, and the temps were quite a bit higher, especially at load....the side benefit of running this config is the head pressure is lower, making the possibility for catistrophic failure (ie, hose fittings and whatever) much lower....

Whatever, 25*c idle, 45/46*c full load...is that comparable to high volume pump system without pelts? Pretty close, I think, especially considering it is cooling a Quad with a chiller that was designed for a single core.... You tell me...

I am outta here....

laterzzzz.................

[RealTelstar]

bldegle2, thanks for your posts.

Could you post some pics?

[DonFaygo]

500.00 bucks eh? You guys need to shop around, I picked up a full Boreas unit with the Mtec controller for 375 +shipping. Mine is only for cooling te NB and graphics cards, plan on setting my i7 under phase.

The Boreas will actaully cool alot more than most give it credit too. The boreas can handle about 500-600w I believe. Friend over at pureOC was running one for the longest time and held his full loop at 28c loaded. Though, on the flipside he added a pair of delta 192cfm fans to the damn thing, lol.... With the Boreas, the best way to run it is with the stock pump, it moves the liquid past the tec's slowly so it does have more time. If you going to buy the barebones boreas and use a different pump, make sure its one you can control the speed on.

[THE JEW (RaVeN)]

I rest my case, again regular water users insist on a high volume pump, this is NOT the WAY SUPER CHILLING works with a Freezone, you have to move the water slowly past the pelts, you move it fast and the water will not have 'time to to supercool', in fact, I actually tried a higher volume pump because I thought the added radiator would pull the original pump down, and the temps were quite a bit higher, especially at load....the side benefit of running this config is the head pressure is lower, making the possibility for catistrophic failure (ie, hose fittings and whatever) much lower....

Whatever, 25*c idle, 45/46*c full load...is that comparable to high volume pump system without pelts? Pretty close, I think, especially considering it is cooling a Quad with a chiller that was designed for a single core.... You tell me...

I am outta here....

laterzzzz.................

What was the wattage on the high flow pump? If it was greater than the low flow pump, that's why the temps were worse--not the flow rate.

[bldegle2]

"I picked up a full Boreas unit with the Mtec controller for 375 +shipping."

always looking for deals, got a link...???

thanks...

[DonFaygo]

Well PPC use to have the full deal for 400 w/ Mtec, now there charging 400 + the mTEC controller. Keep your eye on ebay, thats where I pcked mine up from. Brand new

However NCIX has the full boat for 499.00 CAD 402.00 USD

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...olIT%20Systems

[Ultrasonic2]

SteveRo,

I am using the stock pump that came with the Freezone, the way the Pelt chiller works (low volts to six teacs, about 5v each, helps keeps the hot side temps under control), is the SLOWER movement of the water through the chiller and past each pelt which allows for super chilling, and then the delivery of really cool water to the block, if you use a higher flow pump it will not work as well.....this is contrary to a regular water system with high flow, trust me when I say a higher output pump would not work properly. You have to approach these setups with an open mind, they work on a little different principal than regular water....

laterzzzzz...................

im sorry but this it totaly untrue

[DonFaygo]

im sorry but this it totaly untrue

I'm new, so this is not sarcastic, have you tried this setup next to a standard radiator loop. Switching the pumps between the two to test this theory out? Cuz unless someone has done this, I dont see where anyone can say this is right or wrong regardless or what the principles or cooling are.

[Scarlet Infidel]

Cuz unless someone has done this, I dont see where anyone can say this is right or wrong regardless or what the principles or cooling are.

I have never done this or anything like this but I am more than happy to say that higher flow will mean lower temperatures.

Its not a matter of needing to try it, its the fundamentals of thermodynamics.

A higher flow pump will usually require more power to achieve this. Much of the extra power then gets dissipated into the water. This increase in heat load increases the water temperature more than it is reduced by the extra flow.

This is true in all water cooling systems but more so in a TEC chiller where the increase in heat load has a much larger effect. In a normal system extra heat actually makes a radiator more efficient but with TECs it reduces system efficiency quite drastically.

[zipdogso]

Pardon me but ....you've rather contradicted yourself here !

On one hand you say..

I am more than happy to say that higher flow will mean lower temperatures.

But then you say...

A higher flow pump will usually require more power to achieve this. Much of the extra power then gets dissipated into the water. This increase in heat load increases the water temperature more than it is reduced by the extra flow.

Your line of thinking is "crocked" somewhere otherwise there would be no point in buying a bigger pump.

[NeedMoMegaHurtZ]

Pardon me but ....you've rather contradicted yourself here !

On one hand you say..



But then you say...



Your line of thinking is "crocked" somewhere otherwise there would be no point in buying a bigger pump.

No, he is suggesting that the small heat dump into the circuit by using a bigger pump is offset by the greater benefit of dissipating more heat by using higher flow rates. So overall it's supposed to be better

EDIT: But you're right, he didn't word it like that, sorry....I think that's what he wanted to say.

[SteveRo]

No, he is suggesting that the small heat dump into the circuit by using a bigger pump is offset by the greater benefit of dissipating more heat by using higher flow rates. So overall it's supposed to be better

EDIT: But you're right, he didn't word it like that, sorry....I think that's what he wanted to say.

This should be a simple thing to check for anyone with the right set up.
Boreas, Feser quad plus variable speed pump - if no one else has this set up I may give this a try.

question - I have the Swiftech 355 pump - can I adjust the volts without hurting the pump?

[Scarlet Infidel]

No, he is suggesting that the small heat dump into the circuit by using a bigger pump is offset by the greater benefit of dissipating more heat by using higher flow rates.

Yeah, sorry if I wasn't clear. To recap:

More flow = better heat transfer (always, hot or cold)
More flow = more heat dumped into the water from the pump

You have to come to a good compromise. With normal water cooling a higher flow pump benefits up to a higher point than with TEC chillers.

[demonkevy666]

In my mind, TEC's only appeal that beats out other cooling methods is silence, especially with water. But with those 3000 RPM fans and only 120W of pelt... well we'll see how it goes.

Looks like a great unit to replace all the 10W pelts with 80 watters, though

well why not us a high end AIR heat sink and two tecs and two water blocks bolt one tec between the heat sink and a water block. next attach tec to cpu on the board and the water block over that ?
(use what ever pump and reservoir you want)

Greater Flow > Lacking Flow.

As he said more passes in the same amount of time. Water works on a principle of equalibirum. If the water is colder then ambients, then no, it wouldnt take very long for the water to heat up unless insulated.

what if the tec can't keep up in the heat transfer?

Yeah, sorry if I wasn't clear. To recap:

More flow = better heat transfer (always, hot or cold)
More flow = more heat dumped into the water from the pump

You have to come to a good compromise. With normal water cooling a higher flow pump benefits up to a higher point than with TEC chillers.

the inlets and out lets on that block over the tecs looks tinny. like smaller then 1/4" I would image this would add some perussure to the pump causing more heat dump then just a higher flow pump, normally would.

[zipdogso]

Looks like a great unit to replace all the 10W pelts with 80 watters, though

It is quite feasible that the boreas already has 80watters !

The power for the TEC's is delivered by a molex so the max current draw for the TEC's is 7-8 amps, any more and it will melt the molex.

I can't imagine coolit getting custom TEC's so they are most probably the generic 127 junction type with a max voltage of 16volts.

To get the entire current draw for the 12 TEC's down below 7-8 amps requires considerable undervolting that is why they give the impression of low wattage. Actually they are working at a high COP (i.e. good efficiency.) If you were to disconnect the TEC's from the controller, change the wiring configuration and power them from a auxilliary supply you will undoubtedly find they are much more powerful than you would at first imagine. One clue to this can be find in various reviews of coolit units when it is noted the power draw per TEC is slightly different this is due to the different wiring configuration. The TEC's used are most probably the same units.

As a final point the design of the boreas is such that just swopping out the TEC's as you suggestedwould be a much larger job than you would presume.

[DonFaygo]

Could always pull the fans off the Boreas and add copper heat sinks to the underside of the TEC's, crank it up, lol

[eligray]

well why not us a high end AIR heat sink and two tecs and two water blocks bolt one tec between the heat sink and a water block. next attach tec to cpu on the board and the water block over that ?

This post shows that you have no idea about how peltier stacking works. 200W CPU and 300W pelt need at least 800W of others. Suddenly you have a 1500W cooling system.

[zipdogso]

well why not us a high end AIR heat sink and two tecs and two water blocks bolt one tec between the heat sink and a water block. next attach tec to cpu on the board and the water block over that ?

Unfortunately you are following the common misconception - TEC's are not coolers per se, they are heat pumps merely shifting heat from one place to another. So the top TEC would have to big enough to deal with all the heat below it, funny numbers quickly ensue and often because we deal with such large TEC's in computers the the top TEC is often unobtainarium.

In your case the so called high end air heatsink would not stand a chance.

[demonkevy666]

This post shows that you have no idea about how peltier stacking works. 200W CPU and 300W pelt need at least 800W of others. Suddenly you have a 1500W cooling system.

Unfortunately you are following the common misconception - TEC's are not coolers per se, they are heat pumps merely shifting heat from one place to another. So the top TEC would have to big enough to deal with all the heat below it, funny numbers quickly ensue and often because we deal with such large TEC's in computers the the top TEC is often unobtainarium.

In your case the so called high end air heatsink would not stand a chance.

I don't mean stack them. both of you miss under stood what I said.

read again one tec is under a water block over the cpu. The other is in between the water block and air heat sink. They are not stacked. they in fact would be in a water cooling loop.
Only I forgot mention there would be a radiator too.

the radiator can only cool to ambient temperatures.

without the radiator it would be stacking with a medium of water & that would be pointless.

here let ask 1 question though is that thing where the fans are on boreas a radiator or a heat sink ?

[zipdogso]

I don't mean stack them. both of you miss under stood what I said.

read again one tec is under a water block over the cpu. The other is in between the water block and air heat sink. They are not stacked. they in fact would be in a water cooling loop.
Only I forgot mention there would be a radiator too.

Ok yep my first impression was wrong BUT I fail to see the purpose of the 2nd TEC.

The first TEC will take heat from the CPU and pass it to the water block the second TEC will take heat from another waterblock and pass it to the air heatsink...why ? what do you plan to achieve here ?
I am assuming both waterblocks are on the same loop.

here let ask 1 question though is that thing where the fans are on boreas a radiator or a heat sink ?

On the boreas the TEC's are arranged with waterblocks to the coldside and the hotside of the TEC's are on a cylindrical heatsink through which the fans draw the air.

[SteveRo]

OK - I just ordered a Boreas - reading up on mobo insulation now - any suggestions?
Planning to compare -
1. Boreas by itself with coolit pump and block
2. Maybe Boreas in my current loop right before the block
3. Lastly - Boreas flat out and sweating.

Boreas flat out - from Hardwarecanucks - http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-17.html