something SSD you didn't know about from OCZ

[Tony]

He's catching the because he's the rep posting for the company.
I'm sure that when right next to the quoted speeds they advertise that in order to obtain the indicated speeds and have a smoothly operating system you must run steady-state people will cut them some slack.
Even though I use an Adaptec 5805 in my main rig I still won't touch drives that will stutter without cache'd controllers or some security feature rehashed as a speed boosting feature.

That just shows me the following:

1 even though i have run this drive for 1 full week in this AMD laptop you don't believe the ATTO i posted is real.

2 you don't understand how we are using a byproduct of steadystate to enhance the drives. If I could extract the caching feature and release it as a stand alone SSD enhancement i would, and i bet the world and his dog would use it with any brand and any type of drive.

I am amazed no one has run steadystate with an Intel drive yet and timed file transfers, they would see a HUGE difference.

Anyway, honest posting does not count for some it seems...maybe i should leak info like this else where and let you guys get it second hand next time?

[bedlamite]

Damn, these cheap 30 GB SSDs are tempting. I'd like to get two of these + some good raid controller. Go OCZ!

[eternal_fantasy]

Tony, do you know what is the stripe size of the internal RAID controller? I guess it will behave like a regular RAIDed array that only file sizes larger then the stripe size will benifit from the increase in file transfer speed?

[JohnMike]

Anyway, honest posting does not count for some it seems...maybe i should leak info like this else where and let you guys get it second hand next time?

NOooo!!... Don't listen to the "Noise"... There's always "noise" around sadly. What makes us better is knowing how to handle with it.

Please keep your good will and share of information.

Best Regards

[flopper]

That just shows me the following:

1 even though i have run this drive for 1 full week in this AMD laptop you don't believe the ATTO i posted is real.

2 you don't understand how we are using a byproduct of steadystate to enhance the drives. If I could extract the caching feature and release it as a stand alone SSD enhancement i would, and i bet the world and his dog would use it with any brand and any type of drive.

I am amazed no one has run steadystate with an Intel drive yet and timed file transfers, they would see a HUGE difference.

Anyway, honest posting does not count for some it seems...maybe i should leak info like this else where and let you guys get it second hand next time?

Tony,
as a suggestion, there is no point going into debate with people who made their minds up.
As Internet as it is, and peoples behaviours also tends to reflect the illusion of anonymity there is more asocial people out there.
That is also what the ignore function is for.

Stick with what you do.
And as far, you took a risk relasing early ssd, but you also have not ducked into the sand.
counts in my book.

[eva2000]

2 nand controllers, 1 raid chip in 1 drive.

split the nand in 2...half to each controller and then raid the output in raid0 to sata. The controller on your board sees it as a standard drive.

Nice. imagine 8 of these on a hardware raid controller

what's the access time like ? hope it's 0.1ms ?

[neouser]

omg after all the mess on the official support forum, where the "tweaking" was: try to not write on the drive disabling everything that uses it (lol) and after the promise of a new revision WITHOUT the jmicron controller and WITH a larger and useful cache, what i see?

A raid version of the worst ever produced ssd drive on the market? (yes, because the other brand ones with jmicron are terrible and slow, but no, do not stutter in msn).

[K404]

Its good to see a company try internal RAID, i've suggested it quietly a few times over the years Hopefully a continuation of it will see S-ATAII saturated and there will be an actual point in further development of the interface

[Calmatory]

Its good to see a company try internal RAID, i've suggested it quietly a few times over the years Hopefully a continuation of it will see S-ATAII saturated and there will be an actual point in further development of the interface

Is there a reason to improve the interface? If not, why to make up reasons to improve it if it is already good enough?

[m^2]

Is there a reason to improve the interface? If not, why to make up reasons to improve it if it is already good enough?

It's XS. "fast enough" is oxymoron.

[flopper]

It's XS. "fast enough" is oxymoron.

When its loading before you press the button instantly, then it might be xs enuff

[m^2]

When its loading before you press the button instantly, then it might be xs enuff

It's so easy to make you satisfied...
When you start thinking about doing something this should be finished already.

[alfaunits]

Good idea about RAID, long awaited move.
Curious thing though... at least in Europe the Vertex is priced about the same as v2 SSD, so if Apex is priced a bit more than v2, that'll put it over Vertex price? What gives/

Shouldn't even software RAID write caching make a difference? Hardware RAID controller would only help to lower CPU utilization, and not use main memory for cache vs onboard.
For the stripe size, I would presume 32K, anything under will strain the RAID chip a lot more, and would not benefit an average user, since the bulk of the Windows I/O is @64KB.

[Mechromancer]

Dammit I had just made up my mind to purchase the Vertex series drives! Now I'm back to contemplating getting a hardware RAID controller with cache for these. There are too many awesome choices coming out of this company.

....And Tony, please don't be discouraged by the noise here. There will always be a bunch of pale faced, cynical, chubby, self hating losers on forums that don't appreciate anything good you will ever do. That is the ugly side of the internet that we all must live with. Please don't let those few (albeit loud) haters discourage you from doing your fine work. I've seen your work here on XS, OC Forums, and your own OCZ forums for years now and cannot express how much I appreciate your honesty. Cheer up mate.

[Tony]

omg after all the mess on the official support forum, where the "tweaking" was: try to not write on the drive disabling everything that uses it (lol) and after the promise of a new revision WITHOUT the jmicron controller and WITH a larger and useful cache, what i see?

A raid version of the worst ever produced ssd drive on the market? (yes, because the other brand ones with jmicron are terrible and slow, but no, do not stutter in msn).

Just buy Vertex then...cache, fast IO processor, everything you want.

[billdavis]

Nice Tony

[alfaunits]

Well, to put it in perspective, a Raptor can do I think around 100-150 random writes @64K, a 15K.5 SAS drive does ~300.
Given that any good SSD today will surpass both of these in reads (all sorts), the SSD should at least match the random writes of a Raptor.

That doesn't mean that less would not be flying speed for most users, but we aren't talking average Joe sixpack when it comes to buying SSDs, they are still expensive, and only a (fairly) minor part of users consider them over more space unless the speed is much better.

SteadyState as bonus speed is a nice thing to know, but it mustn't be required to get something working.
Also, while most people won't think of changing BIOS/RAID options, if it matters, you should put in the manual?
I'm not saying you didn't, I don't know... I just wonder?

you guys need to get away from needing 5 gazzilion IO/s 4k random writes, you don't need that to have a good experience...Im trying to find just what you DO need to have stutter free untweaked and tweaked.
Going by what i feel this drive is performing like its not that many..maybe just 1 gazzilion...

[Vargher Warg]

Hey Tony! where can I find this tweak guide of yours?

Thanks in advance!

[Tony]

Dammit I had just made up my mind to purchase the Vertex series drives! Now I'm back to contemplating getting a hardware RAID controller with cache for these. There are too many awesome choices coming out of this company.

....And Tony, please don't be discouraged by the noise here. There will always be a bunch of pale faced, cynical, chubby, self hating losers on forums that don't appreciate anything good you will ever do. That is the ugly side of the internet that we all must live with. Please don't let those few (albeit loud) haters discourage you from doing your fine work. I've seen your work here on XS, OC Forums, and your own OCZ forums for years now and cannot express how much I appreciate your honesty. Cheer up mate.

My boss brought this drive to me a short while ago, they shipped an ES Apex sample for me to evaluate and for me to decide if it launches or not...OCZ are acutely aware V2 and V1 core was over hyped and peoples expectations were a little to high..hence the person who ended up supporting SSD the most for the company gets to decide what route future releases will take.

Vertex is a new drive, new controller, new rules (to OCZ) and its positioning will be marketed as a performance option...Apex (coreV3) had been dropped altogether till we decided to try internal raid.

Times are hard, the economy is getting worse, I need to sell drives, that is blatantly obvious...people have less expendable cash now hence you have to rethink your products. We could have followed Kingston and brought an Intel clone SDD to market costing $600 for MLC...but how many would we sell, that is the big question you have to ask?
Take Asus and ROG boards as an example, they sell 60k mid range boards compared to 400 or so ROG boards similar SKU, I know what is earning Asus the most money here

Overall we are taking a chance revisiting the JM602 controller, but we are doing it with a twist. We know anandtech will put it thru IOmeter and pronounce is crap...thing is i do NOT trust that bench or care what the review will say as you can have a good experience with a product even though the numbers from the bench say you can not. I am starting to think the whole benchmarking frenzy we see with SSD's is not really taking and showing SSD's for what they are or what they can do.

I know some will argue with me here, and for those that do come see me at CES, I may have my DIY with me which has a V1 SSD, i will let you play with it...but i will ask you to say what the experience was like, not how it bench marked.

[Tony]

Hey Tony! where can I find this tweak guide of yours?

Thanks in advance!

on the OCZ support forum in the flash section...sub section SSD

[Biker]

Nice. imagine 8 of these on a hardware raid controller

what's the access time like ? hope it's 0.1ms ?

Shhhhhhhhh!!!

My wallet can hear you!!!

[Tony]

Well, to put it in perspective, a Raptor can do I think around 100-150 random writes @64K, a 15K.5 SAS drive does ~300.
Given that any good SSD today will surpass both of these in reads (all sorts), the SSD should at least match the random writes of a Raptor.

That doesn't mean that less would not be flying speed for most users, but we aren't talking average Joe sixpack when it comes to buying SSDs, they are still expensive, and only a (fairly) minor part of users consider them over more space unless the speed is much better.

SteadyState as bonus speed is a nice thing to know, but it mustn't be required to get something working.
Also, while most people won't think of changing BIOS/RAID options, if it matters, you should put in the manual?
I'm not saying you didn't, I don't know... I just wonder?

you seem to be a person who needs benchmarks to prove something is good or bad, I used to be like this, i even used to play superpi things change though.

Average hard drive seek is 11 to 13ms, add in other latency and you can ofter see 14ms in a bench. SSD even crappy JM602 ones seek in 0.2 to 0.3ms, so they have found the data and served it faster than a normal drive seeks, never mind serves.
keeping random writes in check on a system using a few tweaks is no bad thing, M$ are going to add similar tweaks to W7 soon, and the best part they are cheap..usually free. Now i agree some don't want to tweak, some don't know how to...Vertex is aimed directly at those people...and really is directed at you also.

I was honest im my original post, please guys don't compare Apex to Vertex, they are totally different and positioned totally different.

[[XC] riptide]

Tony. Wheres this guide folk speak of? I missed it.

[Tony]

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...play.php?f=186

check the sticky's

[[XC] riptide]

Cool!