Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 30

Thread: 120 vs. 140 radiator tested!

  1. #1
    Xtreme Enthusiast HESmelaugh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Winterthur, Switzerland
    Posts
    584

    120 vs. 140 radiator tested!

    As far as I can tell, HWLabs were the first to step the radiator-game up to a format that is designed for 140-mm-fans rather than the 120-mm-fans that have become pretty much the standard by now. Black Ice Stealth GT 140's (and 280's and 420's) were the first radiators I ever saw available in this format. Seeing them, I was immediately intrigued and wondered how much performance gain the step up from 120 to 140 might bring.

    So, naturally, I decided to try it out. Which brings us to...

    120 vs. 140 Radiator-Test



    I got a hold of a Black Ice GT 140 as well as a Black Ice GT 120. These two radiators are very comparable since they have identical fin density, material etc.

    On a side note, I have to mention how beautifully manufactured these radiators are. The finish and overall appearance is just gorgeous.




    Testing Methods: The Basics

    If you've seen any of my previous articles, you'll be familiar with this by now.

    Here's the hardware used in testing:
    - Q6600 Prozessor @ 1.5V
    - EK Supreme
    - Asus P5E WS Pro Mainboard
    - Laing DDC 1T+ (Swiftech MCP355) Pump with EK X-Res Top
    - Corsair HX 620W PSU
    - T-Balancer bigNG plus Sensorhub
    - 2x analogue temperature sensors (measuring water temperature)
    - 3x digital temperature sensors, measuring ambient temperature

    To get the temperature results, I load the CPU for 65 minutes using Prime95. The first 45 minutes are just for warm-up. I collect all of the relevant temperatures in 5 second intervals in a log file and average all of the data out for the last 20 minutes of the test run.


    Testing Methods, The more complicated part...

    I don't know if this saying exists in English, but translated directly from German it goes like this: "You can't compare apples and oranges."

    Well, comparing a 120 vs. a 140 radiator is a lot like comparing apples to oranges. Whenever we compare the performance of two components, we try to keep all factors other than that component equal. So, for example, if you want to test one waterblock versus another one, you obviously have to use them on the identical CPU, with identical heat load and testing methods, otherwise the comparison is pointless.

    The problem with the radiators is quite simply that one is made for 120-mm-fans while the other is made for 140-mm-fans.



    Shown above is a fan-adapter that connects the 120 with the 140 format. I got this together with an Aerocool Silver Lightning fan. This adapter allows me to install 120-mm-fans to the 140-mm radiator and vice versa. Unfortunately, that doesn't solve the problem of comparabilty.

    Here are my thoughts on different options for comparing the two radiators:

    Using an identical fan with identical rpm
    This is the first and most obvious choice. If I were comparing two radiators of the same size, I would, of course, test both of them with the same fan at the same speed. Using the adapter shown above, I could do the same with this comparison.
    Problem: A 120-mm-fan won't cover the entire surface of the larger radiator while a 140-mm-fan will produce more airflow while being more quiet than a 120-mm-fan (i.e. the noise/performance ratio would be unrealistiv for the 120 radiator). Additionally, the fan adapter, while being very flat, will act as a shroud and thus skew the results some more.

    Using a right sized fan for each radiator
    Again, on the face of it, this might seem an obvious choice: Use a 140-mm-fan for the larger radiator and a 120-mm-fan for the smaller one. After all, those are the sizes they were designed for.
    Problem: Ultimately, this would be a comparison of the different fans as much as a comparison of the different radiator sizes. After all, not all fans are equally efficient and the results wouldn't tell us whether one of the radiators simply performs better due to a more effective fan or due to it's size.






    Use fans of the right size and with identical cfm (airflow)
    Theoretically (if I had the required equipment), I could use two different fans and set both to speeds where they produce identical airflow. That way, I could compare the two different radiator's performances with identical amounts of air moving through them.
    Problem: Apart from the fact that I don't have the necessary equipment and the problem of static pressure being another thing to factor in, this testing method would show interesting results that have almost nothing to do with how the radiators are used in practice. After all, many users simply set their fans to the noise level that they want. The fact that 140-mm-fans can potentially move more air while remaining quieter than 120-mm-fans might be one of the great strengths of a 140 radiator (at least among friends of the silent pc).

    Use fans of the right size and adjust them to identical nosie level
    Taking into consideration what I just asserted above, it would make sense to choose two fans and then adjust them to identical noise levels. That would result in a good comparison for silent-enthusiasts, right?
    Problem: Again, this would be a test of the quality of the used fans as much as the different radiators. After all, some fans manage to push lots of air and remain relatively quiet while others can be annoyingly noisy without being effective.


    So, now that I've come to the conclusion that no possible comparison can be absolutely fair in every respect, what the hell do I do?
    Well, I decided that I just have to accept the fact, that no comparison can be flawless. Just like a two-dimensional map of the world can never be free of some kind of distortion and you simply have to use different maps for different purpouses, I will test different options to try and get "the big picture".


    The Fans
    I used four different fans for the testing.

    Two 120-mm-fans: Nanoxia FX-1250 at 1030 rpm and Scyhte Kama FLEX at 1500 rpm.
    And two 140-mm-fans: Yate Loon D14SL-12 at 900 rpm and Sharkoon System Fan Midrange at 1200 rpm.

    I did a test-run with each fan on each radiator. I used the adapter to attach the fans to the radiator of the "wrong size", which looks like this:

    120 fan on 140 rad:


    140 fan on 120 rad:



    Results

    Now let's (finally) get to the results:

    First, the water-temperatures for each radiator-fan combination. All the results are shown as the difference between water and ambient temperature.



    As we can see, the temperatures are significantly lower with the larger radiator in every instance. Considering that I only used a single radiator and the advantag will accumulate with larger radiators (280, 420 etc.), the achieved differences are quite impressive.


    Next, let's take a look at how this affects the CPU-Temperature. Again, the results shown are the CPU minus the ambient temperatures.



    Depending on the used fan, the 140 radiator gains between 0.6 and 2.6 degrees over the 120 radiator. Not bad for a single radiator, methinks.


    Finally, a comparison of the fans of "the right size" for each radiator. I simply grouped them as high rpm and low rpm.
    The results show water- minus ambient temperature.



    This comparison still shows a clear advantage of the 140 radiator, even though the fans used on the smaller radiator were set to higher rpm.


    Conclusion
    In conclusion, I must say that I'm quite surprised at how much of an advantage those extra 20 millimeters of diameter bring about. It's clear that a radiator in the 140-mm format can get you better cooling results at equal or even lower noise levels than you can achieve with a radiator in the 120-mm format.
    At least for silent-enthusiasts, this alone is reason enough to dish out the extra cash for a larger radiator.

    Hope you liked this article. Questions and comments welcome as always!

    Cheers,
    Shane

  2. #2
    I am Xtreme Hondacity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    5,584
    an extra 20mm of diameter? can you add more info on the bigger rad? i thought they only increased the number of pipes...

    excellent review btw

  3. #3
    Xtreme Cruncher Polizei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    'burb of Cleveland, Ohio
    Posts
    2,872
    Personally, I think the correct size fan should be used on each radiator. Using a 120mm fan on a 140mm radiator almost makes the adapter perform like a shroud and disperse the air a bit more.

    Matching fans such that the cfm matches or maybe cfm/diameter ratio is the same. Not sure on that, but adapters act almost as shrouds in my opinion.

  4. #4
    Xtreme Enthusiast The-Fox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    544
    Unless the fan was pulling air, the 140 to 120mm adaptor looks like it was installed the other way around.

    IMO the test should reflect real world situations.
    which means using 120mm for a 120mm radiator and using 140mm fan for a 140mm radiator.

    Using Yate Leon 120/140 mm fans is the closest as you can get in terms of similar fans.
    Testing them in same RPM or same noise level would be the wise thing to do.

    Thanks for the test results anyway.

    PC: Intel Core i7 920 D0 | Kingston Hyperx T1 6GB 2000Mhz 8-8-8 RAM | Foxconn Bloodrage GTI | Sapphire 4870X2 | Perc 5/i - WD 640AAKSx4 RAID0 | Asus 2014L1T | Dell 2407WFP | Lian Li G70 Silver Watercooled
    WaterCooling: Q² Project by The-Fox
    CPU Loop: Swiftech Apogee GTZ | Feser X-Changer 480 | Swiftech MCP655 Vario w/ DetroitAC top | EK Multioption RES 250 Rev.2 | Tygon R3603 1/2" | YL D12SL@1350RPM x4
    GPU Loop: EK-FC4870 X2 Nickel | Swiftech MCR320 | Swiftech MCP655 Vario w/DetroitAC top | EK Multioption RES 150 Rev.2 | Tygon R3603 1/2" | YL D12SL@1350RPM x3



  5. #5
    Xtreme Addict coolmiester's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    North East UK
    Posts
    1,029
    A bit off topic but does anyone have any infomation on whether HWLabs will be producing an X-Flow version of the 140 / 280 / 420 radiators.

    I've emailed Willie but heard nothing back in a few days

  6. #6
    Xtreme Enthusiast HESmelaugh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Winterthur, Switzerland
    Posts
    584
    Quote Originally Posted by Hondacity View Post
    an extra 20mm of diameter? can you add more info on the bigger rad? i thought they only increased the number of pipes...

    excellent review btw
    Thanks.
    Well, the 140 radiator does have more pipes but its also wider. The size of it corresponds to the extra 20mm of diameter a 140 fan has vs. a 120 fan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Polizei View Post
    Personally, I think the correct size fan should be used on each radiator. Using a 120mm fan on a 140mm radiator almost makes the adapter perform like a shroud and disperse the air a bit more.

    Matching fans such that the cfm matches or maybe cfm/diameter ratio is the same. Not sure on that, but adapters act almost as shrouds in my opinion.
    Yes, as I mentioned in the text, the adapter has a shroud-effect. Because the adapter is very flat, the effect will be minimal, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by The-Fox View Post
    IMO the test should reflect real world situations.
    which means using 120mm for a 120mm radiator and using 140mm fan for a 140mm radiator.
    Well, I do. Since I tested every radiator with every fan, it's simply a matter of which bars on the graph you want to compare. ;-)
    Also, the last comparison is just that: 120-mm-fan on 120-mm-rad and 140-mm-fan on 140-mm-rad.

    The fan rpm was chosen so that the airflow seemed to be identical (just subjectively felt, since I don't have any measuring equipment).

    Quote Originally Posted by coolmiester View Post
    A bit off topic but does anyone have any infomation on whether HWLabs will be producing an X-Flow version of the 140 / 280 / 420 radiators.

    I've emailed Willie but heard nothing back in a few days
    I never saw an announcement.

  7. #7
    Xtreme Mentor Eddie3dfx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    3,283
    Excellent test. I really like that you show the cpu temps. Thats very important because what can the avg watercooler due with just radiator temps.
    Asus P6T, I7-920, 6gb ocz xmp, 4890, Raid 0-1 Terabyte, full watercooled - Triple Loop 5 radiators

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    3,602
    Nice comparison mate. I agree with you on keeping the fans the same. There is no doubt there would be an improvement but no one really had an idea of how much.

  9. #9
    Xtreme Addict
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    2,036
    I have to say it again, and will say it every time I see these things. The finish on these rads is just gorgeous. Pictures do not do them justice. In real life when you hold one in your hand they are stunning. The welds are smooth and clean, and it's a quality piece of hardware in every way.

  10. #10
    I am Xtreme Waterlogged's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Imperial Palace, UDE of Pitatopia
    Posts
    8,392
    GTS are a design failure on every level.
    Circles SucQ!

    If your annoyed by sigs telling you to put things in your sig, then put this in your sig

    Bribery won't work on me...just say NO to AT!!!

  11. #11
    c[_] STEvil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    20,419
    use a 120 fan on the 140 rad!
    Heatware || 01.01.08; AND 111.2%

    Dead Z7S-WS? Click!. || XS Z7S-WS Thread || Current Dead Asus Z7S-WS count: 26+ ($15,000 in dead motherboards).
    All along the watchtower the watchmen watch the eternal return.
    Want to use my Anti-asus logo? Go ahead, but use this link please!: http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/a...sus/noasus.gif
    Bring back the game. http://reclaimyourgame.com/. EA are mean.

  12. #12
    Xtreme Addict CedricFP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,911
    Ive been contemplating 140 BI GTX rads over 120's for my next build. Looks like this is the convincing I needed.
    -


    "Language cuts the grooves in which our thoughts must move" | Frank Herbert, The Santaroga Barrier
    2600K | GTX 580 SLI | Asus MIV Gene-Z | 16GB @ 1600 | Silverstone Strider 1200W Gold | Crucial C300 64 | Crucial M4 64 | Intel X25-M 160 G2 | OCZ Vertex 60 | Hitachi 2TB | WD 320

  13. #13
    Registered User kraygon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    seattle
    Posts
    20
    8)\ good news hope youre findings translate to the 420 gtx as well , as I have one sitting in front me waiting to find it's way into a cpu loop

    Kraygon
    Knightium Game Rig
    Ultra E-Torque
    EVGA 780i FTW @ 1800MHz
    Intel 8400 Wolfdale @ 4.05MHz/1.48v (9 x 450MHz)
    Zalman 9700 NT
    Corsair Dominator 4GB @ 900MHz/2.1v
    WD Raptor 150GB
    EVGA 9800 GTX+Tri-SLI @810MHz/2025MHZ/1205MHz
    Zalman 850 Watt P/S
    M/S Windows 64bit Vista
    3DMark06=18962
    3DVantage=19863

  14. #14
    Xtreme Addict CedricFP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,911
    Does anyone know where to get 120-140mm fan shrouds?

    EDIT: I mean besides purchasing an aerocool fan. The things aren't exactly cheap.
    Last edited by CedricFP; 12-06-2008 at 10:08 PM.
    -


    "Language cuts the grooves in which our thoughts must move" | Frank Herbert, The Santaroga Barrier
    2600K | GTX 580 SLI | Asus MIV Gene-Z | 16GB @ 1600 | Silverstone Strider 1200W Gold | Crucial C300 64 | Crucial M4 64 | Intel X25-M 160 G2 | OCZ Vertex 60 | Hitachi 2TB | WD 320

  15. #15
    Xtreme Enthusiast HESmelaugh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Winterthur, Switzerland
    Posts
    584
    Quote Originally Posted by T_Flight View Post
    I have to say it again, and will say it every time I see these things. The finish on these rads is just gorgeous. Pictures do not do them justice. In real life when you hold one in your hand they are stunning. The welds are smooth and clean, and it's a quality piece of hardware in every way.
    I agree. The first time I unpacked a Black Ice, my reaction was simply: Wow!
    Visually, other radiators I've had (Magicool, Aqua Computer, ...) just don't compare.

    Quote Originally Posted by kraygon View Post
    8)\ good news hope youre findings translate to the 420 gtx as well , as I have one sitting in front me waiting to find it's way into a cpu loop

    Kraygon
    I'm sure it does. I'd really like to know how a 280 compares to a 360 or how a 420 compares to a 480. Don't know if I'll ever get the chance to test that, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by CedricFP View Post
    Does anyone know where to get 120-140mm fan shrouds?

    EDIT: I mean besides purchasing an aerocool fan. The things aren't exactly cheap.
    I haven't seen any either. It also seems like the aerocool one isn't sold separately. Why would you want one, though? Plenty of good 140-mm-fans around.

  16. #16
    Xtreme Addict CedricFP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    1,911
    I haven't seen any either. It also seems like the aerocool one isn't sold separately. Why would you want one, though? Plenty of good 140-mm-fans around.
    Well it would be for attaching the 140MM rad to a 120MM case hole - I would use a single 140 fan in pull config on the rad itself.

    Case : Shroud : Rad : Fan ---> Air

    But I suppose the shroud isn't necessary. I could just sit the rad on the floor of my case.
    -


    "Language cuts the grooves in which our thoughts must move" | Frank Herbert, The Santaroga Barrier
    2600K | GTX 580 SLI | Asus MIV Gene-Z | 16GB @ 1600 | Silverstone Strider 1200W Gold | Crucial C300 64 | Crucial M4 64 | Intel X25-M 160 G2 | OCZ Vertex 60 | Hitachi 2TB | WD 320

  17. #17
    Xtreme Member AndreaBZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Bolzano - Italy
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by HESmelaugh View Post
    .......
    Here's the hardware used in testing:
    - Q6600 Prozessor @ 1.5V
    - EK Supreme
    - Asus P5E WS Pro Mainboard
    - Laing DDC 1T+ (Swiftech MCP355) Pump with EK X-Res Top
    - Corsair HX 620W PSU
    - T-Balancer bigNG plus Sensorhub
    - 2x analogue temperature sensors (measuring water temperature)
    - 3x digital temperature sensors, measuring ambient temperature

    Hope you liked this article. Questions and comments welcome as always!

    Cheers,
    Shane
    Overclocked CPU speed MHz ???
    Lian Li PC A70B *ABIT IP35PRO*Q6600@3330/3600 mhz*GeForce 8800 GT*G. Skill 2GB F2-6400PH*Corsair HX620
    Liquid cooling

  18. #18
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    in a Red Rage D....
    Posts
    3,839
    HES another good simple testing you've done. keep it up.

  19. #19
    Xtreme Enthusiast HESmelaugh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Winterthur, Switzerland
    Posts
    584
    Thanks, septim!

    @Andrea: The Q6600 is running at 3.33 GHz. Can't kick it further than that (it just barely even handles the 3.3) but I'm told that voltage is what matters for heat load.

  20. #20
    /dev/zero SAE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Germany, Berlin
    Posts
    3,646
    Good read, mate. Well done.
    I had to search for the thread cause I missed reading it the last time I saw it on page 1...
    Xtremesystems.org
    i7-4820K * ryba 2-stager + 1-stager * EVGA X79 Dark * 32G Team Xtreem 2666C11 * EVGA GTX 680 SC Sig. * Intel G2 80G * Corsair HX1000 * Lian Li PC-70B * Watercool Heatkiller, EK Fullcover/Backplate for GTX, MCP355 Dual Setup@Koolance RP-402X2, PA120.3+Alphacool 360, Tubing 16/10.


  21. #21
    Xtreme Member rocket733's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Bloomington, IN
    Posts
    208
    Great test results, thanks for your work.

  22. #22
    Xtreme Enthusiast HESmelaugh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Winterthur, Switzerland
    Posts
    584
    Thanks, guys!

    Yeah, XS isn't the type of forum where threads tend to stay on the first page for very long... ^^

  23. #23
    Xtreme Mentor Talonman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    2,972
    Nice job...

    I enjoyed the post.
    Asus Maximus SE X38 / Lapped Q6600 G0 @ 3.8GHz (L726B397 stock VID=1.224) / 7 Ultimate x64 /EVGA GTX 295 C=650 S=1512 M=1188 (Graphics)/ EVGA GTX 280 C=756 S=1512 M=1296 (PhysX)/ G.SKILL 8GB (4 x 2GB) SDRAM DDR2 1000 (PC2 8000) / Gateway FPD2485W (1920 x 1200 res) / Toughpower 1,000-Watt modular PSU / SilverStone TJ-09 BW / (2) 150 GB Raptor's RAID-0 / (1) Western Digital Caviar 750 GB / LG GGC-H20L (CD, DVD, HD-DVD, and BlueRay Drive) / WaterKegIII Xtreme / D-TEK FuZion CPU, EVGA Hydro Copper 16 GPU, and EK NB S-MAX Acetal Waterblocks / Enzotech Forged Copper CNB-S1L (South Bridge heat sink)

  24. #24
    Life's Replay inCore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Switzerland | Zürich
    Posts
    1,535
    Excellent stuff.

    Most people would have gone "Hmm, I have plenty of fans but I'm sure it'll be enough if I just use this one type for my testing." You went ahead and tried all combinations.

    We should get all of your testing into the testing sticky. I'll PM Ashraf with links to your threads.
    Self-proclaimed and convincing.

    Intel i5 760 | Prolimatech Genesis CPU Cooler | EVGA GTX 480 | Arctic Cooling Accelero Extreme Plus II GPU Cooler | Corsair Vengeance 4 x 4GB DDR3-1600 | Crucial C300 64GB SSD | 5 TB+ of storage | Corsair Obsidian 550d | Corsair HX850

    13" Macbook Pro

    Nikon D90 | Nikon 55-200mm f/4-5.6 VR | Nikon 35mm f/1.8G | Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 Macro HSM | Nikon SB-900 | Braun 5000

    Twitter | Life's Replay


  25. #25
    Xtreme Member MaddHawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Texas A&M University - Commerce
    Posts
    172
    Nice review. You got the apples to oranges saying pretty much spot on. Only thing I wish was that one of the 120 and one of the 140 mm fans each, was run at the same speed. The closest you can get is comparing the Yate Loon and Nanoxia fan bar graphs since they have the lowest speed differential.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •