I haven't yet used the ignore list. I've come close once or twice, but then that person does something that redeems himself and I don't do it
I haven't yet used the ignore list. I've come close once or twice, but then that person does something that redeems himself and I don't do it
The Cardboard Master Crunch with us, the XS WCG team
Intel Core i7 2600k @ 4.5GHz, 16GB DDR3-1600, Radeon 7950 @ 1000/1250, Win 10 Pro x64
I agree, i also rearly use the ignore function of a forum.Originally Posted by T_Flight
My motto on this: "The bigger your ignore list, the bigger is your own ignorance."
Even I haven't ignored a certain person, while it would be better for my blood pressure at the times when he starts telling lies again and makes personal attacks which staff around here seem to think is all normal and allowed, but then again I get so much satisfaction being able to read his posts and understanding he has it a lot wurse then I do
So yeah, the iggy bin here is empty as well
Never said it wasnt, if they can manage to make good use with low-k by tweaking there process than no use in the change........and hey, it was only a "you never know" kinda statement.
Particle's First Rule of Online Technical Discussion:
As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.
Rule 1A:
Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.
Rule 2:
When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.
Rule 2A:
When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.
Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!
+1 My ignore list has exactly 0 people in it because I like to see what everyone says and use my brain to filter out the nonsense.I agree, i also rearly use the ignore function of a forum.
My motto on this: "The bigger your ignore list, the bigger is your own ignorance."
If Phenom II can hit 4GHz on something like a TRUE (PushPull)/low-mid water (ie Nautilus 500) it'd be frankly a huge step up from K10. I am hoping that the Cryo-Z turns up in the UK sometime soon so I can see how far it can push the Phenom II.
What is this, the "Ignore List" thread? Back on topic, I'm very interested to see AMDs strategy when the PIIs finally come to market; a lot of folks were making high stock clock predictions (3.6Ghz), but now that we know that:I agree, i also rearly use the ignore function of a forum.
My motto on this: "The bigger your ignore list, the bigger is your own ignorance."
Phenom II x4 940 = 3Ghz
Phenom II x4 920 = 2.8Ghz
It seems that realistically, the Q9550 is going to be enough to take on the entire PII line. Is this too pessimistic of a view?
It was on topic too long, we had to take an OT break
Back to your feature presentation
The Cardboard Master Crunch with us, the XS WCG team
Intel Core i7 2600k @ 4.5GHz, 16GB DDR3-1600, Radeon 7950 @ 1000/1250, Win 10 Pro x64
Probly all but the unlocked BE. especailly if the price goes down anymore....bang/buck
As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.
Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.
When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.
When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.
Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!
I dont care how you guys spin this, but 6Ghz+ (hell, even 5Ghz+) is really meaningful. Even if it was just screen stable or quick bench stable.
The other AMD CPU's can barely reach 4.0 with any kind of cooling, due to the arch itself and severe coldbugs.
IF the clocks are true, than they are an clear indication that the arch is not badly OC limited like before anymore, PLUS its faster clock for clock than phenom.
IF the rumors are true it may match current 45nm intel quads in OC, price/performance, etc...Dunno about nehalen, but it may be competitive with it
there were never predictions of high stock clock, only on those fx parts.. perhaps your own predictions
and that is based on what?
The PII x4 940 at 3Ghz is a BE part @ 125 tdp.
I don't know if this is premature, but Intel's tick-tock cycle probably means they're going to be one step ahead (and a half if you count the launch date of Intel 45nm yorkfields and wolfdale) of AMD, this is going to be AMD's main problem in the future. It seems Intel can keep Nehalem 940 and up, along with Q9650 and up as premium upgrades while AMD struggles to compete with Nehalem 920, and Q9550 down. If you think about it, AMD has to be worried that Intel doesn't get nasty and slash prices for the lower segment processors.
So while AMDs recent showcase has got enthusiasts like us talking, it gives Intel ample time to plan a pricing strategy to counter any strong move by AMD. I think the global economic situation is such that a company would be better off selling a relatively highend cpu for $150 than not selling at all. These companies know they have to make some type of profit to attract investors or make their shares attractive. H1, 2009 is going to be very interesting indeed.
Aren't you being a bit too boldthere were never predictions of high stock clock, only on those fx parts.. perhaps your own predictions
and that is based on what?Some numbers have surfaced in this thread and elsewhere which makes me believe based on stock clocks of PII above, to come to that conclusion. One can never tell for sure at this stage, but I'm willing to run tests with my Q9550 all the way from stock (2.83ghz) to 4.2Ghz.
Actually Q9550 is interesting for upgrade but for a new build i7 920 strongly concurrence it.
After that without knowing PII price it's hard to speculate. We speak alot about PII 940 BE but if PII 920 BE it's price around 200€ and can match (approx. 5%) Yorkfield clock for clock that's can be the real deal.
AMD Phenom II X2 550@Phenom II X4 B50
MSI 890GXM-G65
Corsair CMX4GX3M2A1600C9 2x2GB
Sapphire HD 6950 2GB
Yes, for a new build, the i920 is definitely the cpu to get at the moment since it's in the same price bracket as the Q9550, but the Q9550 has the same advantage as PII, it is a drop-in upgrade. You wouldn't need a new board and DDR3.
then what about this shot?
Thats from months ago, not from this last private demo. and that person no doubt was excluded from the last demo
Last edited by G0ldBr1ck; 11-24-2008 at 10:41 AM.
As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.
Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.
When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.
When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.
Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!
It's an older shot of a C1 stepping from August.C2 should be noticeably better as C0/C1 usually topped at ~3.6-3.8Ghz on air
Are people really expecting screenshots from private show held by AMD for like 20 people which some half of them are AMD employees?
Are people really not believing that AMD can do at least +5 GHz under LN2?
Edit: Misunderstood possibly.Though question remains open.
Last edited by Calmatory; 11-24-2008 at 10:54 AM.
so that wasn't under NDA?
im sure it was, thats why im assuming they were not envited to this last demo
As a thread about any computer related subject has its length approach infinity, the likelihood and inevitability of a poorly constructed AMD vs. Intel fight also exponentially increases.
Likewise, the frequency of a car pseudoanalogy to explain a technical concept increases with thread length. This will make many people chuckle, as computer people are rarely knowledgeable about vehicular mechanics.
When confronted with a post that is contrary to what a poster likes, believes, or most often wants to be correct, the poster will pick out only minor details that are largely irrelevant in an attempt to shut out the conflicting idea. The core of the post will be left alone since it isn't easy to contradict what the person is actually saying.
When a poster cannot properly refute a post they do not like (as described above), the poster will most likely invent fictitious counter-points and/or begin to attack the other's credibility in feeble ways that are dramatic but irrelevant. Do not underestimate this tactic, as in the online world this will sway many observers. Do not forget: Correctness is decided only by what is said last, the most loudly, or with greatest repetition.
Remember: When debating online, everyone else is ALWAYS wrong if they do not agree with you!
ok
It clearly was a breach of NDA,you don't need to be a genius to figure that one out.It was the only shot of that clock on that particular CPU,nothing else was shared.Now you can say,wow,why didn't he run some tests while he was at it and we will be going in circles.From no CPUz shots of 6+Ghz under LN2 to a CPUZ shot of 4Ghz under air to why no benches of 4Ghz OC to ...
Some facts about AMD PII event:
You have to accept the fact that a dozen of people were at at Phenom II Show.All of those people(from pcper,amdzone,techreport,anandtech(?) etc.) confirmed the chips ran at the presented clocks and confirmed the cooling used(air,water,dice,LN2) and played around with the chips.All of those people are bound by NDA and AMD would know if any of them(20 or so)breached it.THe 6+Ghz statement was pulled later in the day and reverted to 5+Ghz as AMD didn't want to disclose too much details(competitive reasons,not buidling way too much unneeded hype etc.).All the chips/systems ,apart the 6.3Ghz one,ran Crysis and FC2(fuad reported the FC2 runs) and run them in loops without stability problems.AMD confirmed the chips were not specially cherry picked but also that they weren't duds either.They expect retail parts to clock to similar frequencies(your mileage will vary).No perf. numbers from the systems were disclosed although the people at the event saw them obviously.People at the event could play with the chips and clock them .Chips have no cold bug and AMD claims retail parts won't have it either,due to manufacturing and uarchitectural changes.
Does not compute.
Does not compute.[/QUOTE]
They tested 20+ chips and found an average?
While all the reasons you give make logical sense, I don't understand the purpose of the demoI mean, NDA applies to chosen beta testers and OEMs I presume, but these are people whose jobs are to report the news, right? Why bring in media people and tell them to shut up. I mean this has to be a first; the media under NDA??
Edit: Media outlets that do the bidding of companies should not be trusted. All they have to worry about is report the news, period.
Last edited by Zucker2k; 11-24-2008 at 11:20 AM.
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