hey..I miss the days when you had to copy Glide.DLL over in games, not even to talk about different versions of glide. And each game more or less had its own GFX drivers
Nomatter how you see DirectX. Its also been the saviour.
hey..I miss the days when you had to copy Glide.DLL over in games, not even to talk about different versions of glide. And each game more or less had its own GFX drivers
Nomatter how you see DirectX. Its also been the saviour.
Crunching for Comrades and the Common good of the People.
I am interested in exchanging ideas on this topic, so, if you have something constructive to say, help yourself.
DrWho, The last of the time lords, setting up the Clock.
you never have problem with it? 3Dmark + drivers for example ?Originally Posted by Shintai
hey..I miss the days when you had to copy Glide.DLL over in games, not even to talk about different versions of glide. And each game more or less had its own GFX drivers
Nomatter how you see DirectX. Its also been the saviour.
DrWho, The last of the time lords, setting up the Clock.
I never had a game problem with DirectX. Let me put it that way.
3Dmark and co. is simply too tainted and shady to consider. And they dont serve a purpose really.
Last edited by Shintai; 10-18-2008 at 09:23 AM.
Crunching for Comrades and the Common good of the People.
I don t think you are representative then ... do you play? what games? what Graphic card?I never had a game problem with DirectX. Let me put it that way.
3Dmark and co. is simply too tainted and shady to consider. And they dont serve a purpose really.
DrWho, The last of the time lords, setting up the Clock.
8800GT, X1900GT before that. Mainly MMOs and a few RTS/Simulation like Spore. When I was alittle younger also FPS games. But in short, I never had an issue. Nor had any of my friends.
This is ofcourse with no SLI/CF in mind.
I would consider my friends and me a pretty good testing ground for DirectX/OpenGl. Since we download alot of games and try now and then. (Yes, its legal here).
I just simply dont see the issues with "average joe" that doesnt use the latest beta drivers and such.
Last edited by Shintai; 10-18-2008 at 09:47 AM.
Crunching for Comrades and the Common good of the People.
Well I think you got a point there. However I don't see how introducing a totally new architecture in this market is going to solve this. In fact, maybe, it will make it worse. Introducing a new way of programming for the GPU will only add to the diversity and incompatibility that is already there not make it disappear. Especially with the current state of things between the dominant computer companies right now. If a kind of honest dialogue would happen, between Intel, Nvidia and AMD, even VIA and most importantly Microsoft when Larabee will be entering the market some sort of cooperation towards a standard could be possible. But with the animosity and wars that are out there I fear that Larabee will only make the gaps even wider...
Well, and again, this is my personal opinion, I am not saying that Intel is commited to this, but I am myself convince that the Larrabee like cores are like 387, and to the long term, I ll do all i can to get this into the CPU ...
if you remember well, 387 was a big debate, do I wanted to use the i80387 or the cyrix version ... the AMD version?
http://www.chipdb.org/cat-387-112.htm
http://www.chipdb.org/cat-387-306.htm
http://www.chipdb.org/cat-287-945.htm (only 287) ...
The solution later on was the 486DX (http://www.chipdb.org/cat-486-317.htm )
Again, this is me, not intel ...
it does make a lot of sense to stop the crazyness of many many chip, with incompatibility, time will tell, I ll put a lot of my time on this to convince the world
I am starting here...
of course, I can't speak about our internal discussion, so don't ask me, but this is where I want my PC to go. x86 is the only way to legacy.
DrWho, The last of the time lords, setting up the Clock.
what makes you think that end users want to go to legacy?
You guys are already late to the party... after CS4 is reasonable to expect that more and more apps will try to find a way to exploit GPUs via one or another "non-x86" approach...
You will need to provide lots of ISV support and money (or both) to bend things in "legacy" way... I don't you are not capable of doing it, but you've proved once that EPIC size of the human and financial force can produce EPIC fail of something that's completely opposite to market trends... and right now it doesn't seams that market trend in this age of acceleration is towards the legacy!
just mine 2 "personal" cents
Adobe is working on Flash Player support for 64-bit platforms as part of our ongoing commitment to the cross-platform compatibility of Flash Player. We expect to provide native support for 64-bit platforms in an upcoming release of Flash Player following the release of Flash Player 10.1.
They really haven't exploited too much yet, all the acceleration is through OGL calls, not CUDA, hence it makes the interface look pretty and smooth, when generating that actual data that will be saved or printed... this is not done on the GPU.
Jack
One hundred years from now It won't matter
What kind of car I drove What kind of house I lived in
How much money I had in the bank Nor what my cloths looked like.... But The world may be a little better Because, I was important In the life of a child.
-- from "Within My Power" by Forest Witcraft
Remember that are talking to somebody who works for a Company that has the power of God. For all intents and purposes, in the tech world, they ARE God. They are perfectly capable of doing anything they choose. It's not a matter of IF...it's only a matter of *when*, and *how much*.what makes you think that end users want to go to legacy?
You guys are already late to the party... after CS4 is reasonable to expect that more and more apps will try to find a way to exploit GPUs via one or another "non-x86" approach...
You will need to provide lots of ISV support and money (or both) to bend things in "legacy" way... I don't you are not capable of doing it, but you've proved once that EPIC size of the human and financial force can produce EPIC fail of something that's completely opposite to market trends... and right now it doesn't seams that market trend in this age of acceleration is towards the legacy!
just mine 2 "personal" cents
please ... we are humans, and we try to follow the x86 legacy.
I wish people do not look at us as a BOX with people inside, we are a group of people, like nvidia or any other company.
I try to keep a Olympic spirit to the competition, and I expect the same from any other guys. At the end, the best solution will win, and I think it is the compatibility to the legacy that will be the best way for the consumers.
CS4 is a nice step to use Blitters, it has nothing to do with CUDA, They start using the feature we were using on the amiga 15 years ago ... ou la la , what a revolution ;-) ... kidding!
seriously, ATi has few years back some Avivo application, find them and try them on your new 4870x2 ... it does not work, but you can still boot Dos 3.21 on your phenom or Nehalem ...
This is the main point i am trying to make, Legacy is required to live long in this industry.
This is not going to get sloved in few minutes, neither in few years, but it is where we have to go, otherwise, one day, you ll end up with an nVidia game shop, and ATi one, and an intel one, a sony one, an apple one ... Welcome to the world of Consumer hostage of their special flavor of the PC ...
We need competition, but we need it with Compatibility and legacy.
Let's try to keep the Big money talk and business side a side, I want to speak about the right way to make PCs in the future, to free consumer from Drivers worries, and all of those kins of stuffs
no?
Last edited by Drwho?; 10-18-2008 at 01:09 PM.
DrWho, The last of the time lords, setting up the Clock.
By the way, atleast here in Latvia Intel X58 Smackover boards are already available for sale at stock.
ho ho ... if I was you, i will not buy .. can only be protos ... last BIOS and QA is still in progress.
DrWho, The last of the time lords, setting up the Clock.
When the Asus boards come out, it will be time.
Fire 'em up DrWho? we want the nda to be lifted on the nda lift date!
Francois , how much time did it take for Nehalem validation ? IIRC , it taped out in late august/early sept 07.That's 13 months , is this correct ?ho ho ... if I was you, i will not buy .. can only be protos ... last BIOS and QA is still in progress.
I won't. I know most bugs, few guys have samples around there. These Intel boards built by foxconn has always been....well, not good.ho ho ... if I was you, i will not buy .. can only be protos ... last BIOS and QA is still in progress.
For home usage i will get ASUS or Biostar. Most solid boards.
remember, we are removing the FSB and moving the QPI. QPI is much more complexe than Hypertransport, it toke a long time to design because it can manage memory coherancy, and this is very complexe.
so, how long is a corporate secret, but we spend quite some time on validation.
On the top of this, Nehalem has a band new PCU (Power controle Unit), power gating and Turbo, a much more efficent Hyperthreading.
Validating 731 millions transistors plus the transistors of TYLERSBURG, it is a lot to look for in... more transistors and than hays in an hay stacks ...
so, you think that looking for a needle in the hay stack is difficult? we have a scale 1000x more complexe here!
so, it takes time, a lot of my co workers are very dedicated at this, that does explain a part of the price of the CPU
I admire the people doing the QA, so much the check!
for the 13th months, I don t know :-P
Last edited by Drwho?; 10-18-2008 at 01:44 PM.
DrWho, The last of the time lords, setting up the Clock.
The final product will be awesome! I am tying this email with a proto ... remote desktoping in a Skulltrail ! hehehehe ... it looks very fine to me.
There will be different flavor, for different taste ... all are nice.
DrWho, The last of the time lords, setting up the Clock.
Well, if you can arrange a test sample, then sure i will be glad to test it out, but if i have to spend my money on product i will be using everyday, then hard to say nothing can beat ASUS and Biostar.
Intel x38/x48 boards had HUGE problems, 50% of them died by saving bios settings after first boot. When i worked at retail shop some time ago, we stopped selling them. No PS2 is PITA too, i simply couldn't do anything without recognized usb mouse/keyboard. Overclocking headroom on overclocking board was almost nonexistant.
If we mention legacy for PC, would it be fair to draw parallels to the console world?
No matter how open the conversations become between companies, they will all have their own path of getting to an efficient answer. IMHO there should be some kind of legacy bond, but not too strong else everyone ends up making essentially the same thing, and to some extent, that would limit innovation. I like seeing the different ways Intel, AMD, nV and ATI work :0
Francois...may I ask- is there a "reason" for the QPI ceilings to be where they are? Do you expect them to improve with silicon revisions and as Intel gain experience with the architecture? 177-220max limit the "point" of an upgrade unless we all buy the QX.
Thanks!
Kenny
Also- is the NDA/embargo lift date really a secret? I know it and I didnt have to sign any NDA to find out..
______
Sometimes, it's not your time. Sometimes, you have to make it your time. Sometimes, it can ONLY be your time.
As far as i know, i have been told that QPI wall with i920/i940 on Smackover board was around 215MHz. Also board/cpu failed to post over 1.8Vdimm. But we all know bios is bugged, board is early revision so we have long way to go.
Good post
I agree, when I was in my film class I would of killed for one of these processors, epically since there was a limited amount of computers in the class and limited amount of time on them, and limited amount of time till your film/project was due and I hated sitting there waiting for stuff to get done. If the school had a few i7's we would of been some happy students.
Last edited by drizzt5; 10-18-2008 at 02:06 PM.
CPU:Q6600 G0 @ 3.825
Motherboard:Asus P5E X38
Memory:2x2GB OCZ Reapers DDR2 1066
Graphics Card:Asus 4850
Hard Drive:2xSegate 500gb 32MB Cache raid0
Power Supply:Xion 800W
Case:3DAurora
CPU cooling: D-tek Fuzion V2 (Quad insert removed)
GPU cooling: mcw60
Monitor:24" LG
To the lecacy discussion (if I got everything correct, because my english is too rusty):
Legacy seems to be the best way. Today we have CPUs capable of 0,4 teraflops? And right next to it sits a processor which does 1 teraflop like a charm, idling, eating power for nothing. I'd like to see system, which is fully aware of the capabilities of each part it consists of, to feed each component with tasks, that runs best on them.
to general Nehalem:
Hoping to see Nehalem is not slower in less-threaded games than current wolfdales, if it is, shame on you, Intel.And I like to see lower idle power consumption than equivalent Penryn quad.
Intel's current penryn based quad cores are capable of around 0,1 TeraFLOPS, not the 0,4 you mentioned.To the lecacy discussion (if I got everything correct, because my english is too rusty):
Legacy seems to be the best way. Today we have CPUs capable of 0,4 teraflops? And right next to it sits a processor which does 1 teraflop like a charm, idling, eating power for nothing. I'd like to see system, which is fully aware of the capabilities of each part it consists of, to feed each component with tasks, that runs best on them.
to general Nehalem:
Hoping to see Nehalem is not slower in less-threaded games than current wolfdales, if it is, shame on you, Intel.
About power consumption, my guess would be that it will be lower on Nehalem because Nehalem has been greatly improved in this respect and this is also what the PCU (Power controle Unit) is all about.
"When in doubt, C-4!" -- Jamie Hyneman
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