Thermalright Unveils True Copper Ultra-120 Extreme Coolers

[ryboto]

Probably through the PCB, surrounded materials the chip is in contact with, etc, etc, etc.

If the Al won't wick away the heat fast enough from the CPU, it'll disperse with whatever else it is in contact with.

That makes total sense. Baron's point does make sense, though it's a bit .. confusing in presentation.

No, what happens with Al as opposed to Cu is that the rate of heat transfer is lower, so instead the CPU is hotter as a result. Sure, you'll have some heat transfer to the socket, and to other places, but the surface area for heat transfer in those directions are much much smaller, so their resistance to heat transfer is much much greater that they don't really do much in the grand scheme.

[Tonucci]

Probably through the PCB, surrounded materials the chip is in contact with, etc, etc, etc.

If the Al won't wick away the heat fast enough from the CPU, it'll disperse with whatever else it is in contact with.

That makes total sense. Baron's point does make sense, though it's a bit .. confusing in presentation.

Yes, I got the point, I was just kiddin. He obviously knows that the "location" is inside the case lol. I understand that the real point is, "where" in the case.

Its an matter of heat distribution inside the case, since the heat source output the same watts regardless of the heatsink material.

With cooper, you get colder hot spots, therefore you get hotter surrounding air. This is ideal, it makes easier getting the heat out of the case by using fans.

With alu the inverse is true. More heat build up in the different materials, like the cpu itself, socket area etc, rather than surrounding air, so its harder to get the heat out of the case.

Yes, an better thermal conductor automatically makes better cooling. Its that simple. Colder hot spots, in detriment of surrounding air, is obviously better than the opposite.

My english is not the best, so dont take it too literally

[Baron_Davis]

it is that simple. Copper is better at cooling a surface than Aluminum. That is what you were arguing against. Now you're modifying your argument to say that because copper allows for lower thermal resistance of heat transfer from the CPU it's heating the ambient air faster(true), and causing hot spots and this makes copper not as acceptable. Well, it's cooling the CPU better, and I really don't think it's going to be of the magnitude that we'll see even a 2-3C increase in case temps, unless of course you're trying to use this in an extremely quiet system, which I'm assuming no one will do.

You are totally off...show me one post where I said Aluminum is better than copper at transferring heat. What I've been saying all along is that with greater heat transfer comes the risk of greater ambient temps IF you don't have good fans (which HAS been my point all along...the need for powerful fans to offset copper's much great heat transferring ability).

[Movieman]

Gentleman:
Lets remember to keep this friendly and also remember my last point from my post:
We will find out the truth ONLY when one of us has tested this here at XS.
Until then all is speculation..
But it really is pretty!

[ryboto]

You are totally off...show me one post where I said Aluminum is better than copper at transferring heat. What I've been saying all along is that with greater heat transfer comes the risk of greater ambient temps IF you don't have good fans (which HAS been my point all along...the need for powerful fans to offset copper's much great heat transferring ability).

Earlier you said-

That means that at any given time, it will be transferring and thus storing more heat energy than the aluminum version. Soooo that means that in order for the heatsink to not become overpowered by its own thermal conductivity, it needs to GET RID of the heat it conducts at a faster pace as well. Hence, the reason for more powerful fans.

You didn't mention anything about case fans, just a fan for the heatsink itself. Here's what I don't get, you're saying we should have higher speed case fans if we use Cu heatsinks, well, what happens if we use Al heatsinks? Should we need less airflow?

In reality, if you use Al, your CPU is warmer, so, you'd use a higher speed fan to force convection from the heatsink faster. You don't need to offset anything. How much of an increase in case temps do you think a copper version is going to give you?

I don't mean to put you on the spot, but looking through it seems like you've expanded and changed your initial stance on the subject.

[ryboto]

Gentleman:
Lets remember to keep this friendly and also remember my last point from my post:
We will find out the truth ONLY when one of us has tested this here at XS.
Until then all is speculation..
But it really is pretty!

I'm doing my best to be polite, I like constructive arguments. If I'm coming off as overly negative towards anyone, I apologize.

[Baron_Davis]

Man, anyone who reads my posts from my 1st to my last in this thread will realize what I've been saying. You don't need to try and make me look like a back peddler just cause a couple of ppl said they get what I'm trying to say and that I may have a point. Sheesh.

[Vapor]

Just drop it....

[Spawne32]

why are you guys arguing, i have the email from thermalright directly that says this post is speculation, and there isnt even an official release date yet as its in pre-production

[ryboto]

Man, anyone who reads my posts from my 1st to my last in this thread will realize what I've been saying. You don't need to try and make me look like a back peddler just cause a couple of ppl said they get what I'm trying to say and that I may have a point. Sheesh.

Well, I disagree, but that's how it's just going to be. I did ask you some questions in my last post, but if you don't want to discuss it anymore, that's fine too.

[Biker]

lol

I don't care about thermal conductivity or the laws of thermal dynamics or even who is making the most convincing argument in this thread.... I just want 20 units of this heatsink to start my copper dealership!!!



ps. Ok. I admit it. One of these beauties might just sort of accidentally get mounted on top of my CPU.....

[Toferman]

Gentleman:
Lets remember to keep this friendly and also remember my last point from my post:
We will find out the truth ONLY when one of us has tested this here at XS.
Until then all is speculation..
But it really is pretty!

Agreed. Teh massive and/or shiny is always gonna sell me.

[Frananta]

why are you guys arguing, i have the email from thermalright directly that says this post is speculation, and there isnt even an official release date yet as its in pre-production

Well... speculation or not, i believe thermalright need to come with a new product, not a yet again another TRU's version, we have the alu version, and the xtreme one, than we have the black one, now... perhaps a copper one...

[dengyong]

Gentleman:
Lets remember to keep this friendly and also remember my last point from my post:
We will find out the truth ONLY when one of us has tested this here at XS.
Until then all is speculation..
But it really is pretty!

+1

[ryboto]

Well... speculation or not, i believe thermalright need to come with a new product, not a yet again another TRU's version, we have the alu version, and the xtreme one, than we have the black one, now... perhaps a copper one...

Yea, I hope we see some refreshing and innovative air coolers, the current designs are great, but there's always room for improvement.

[Biker]

Yea, I hope we see some refreshing and innovative air coolers, the current designs are great, but there's always room for improvement.

I would love to test one.

I promise not to melt it down and sell it back to China!

[Bo_Fox]

This thread started out pretty badly anyway, with the 3kg claim and all.. I dont blame some of you guys since there were quite a number of review sites giving the wrong idea that aluminum fins cool better than copper fins.

Too much is being said on this thread, and not enough facts/numbers/statistics being shown. As Movieman said, only tests (benchmarks) will show the proof.

We could just look up the old comparisons of Thermalright's XP-90 vs. Xp-90c:

XP-90's weight: 360g
XP-90c's weight: 690g

(note: The copper version is not even twice the weight of the aluminum version.)

By looking at behardware's test, the aluminum XP-90 actually performs identically to the copper version when a low-speed fan is being used at o/c speeds, the delta temperature is 29.9 degrees for both versions, see: http://www.behardware.com/articles/5...u-coolers.html

[lawrywild]

Oh man this thread is packed full of fail.. the cpu heat goes to places "unknown" bahahaha!!

Alu dissapates heat to air better than copper? Umm no.

As ryboto said, the rate as which the heat transfers to the air is caused by the temperature delta between the ambient air and the heatsink, assuming others things constant like rate of airflow etc. It's complete bull that aluminium does this better than copper and you're an idiot if you believe it. Copper is ALWAYS better than than aluminium for thermal and electrical applications, period.

[N00B]

its heavier than my laptop!!

[hollo]

You are totally off...show me one post where I said Aluminum is better than copper at transferring heat. What I've been saying all along is that with greater heat transfer comes the risk of greater ambient temps IF you don't have good fans (which HAS been my point all along...the need for powerful fans to offset copper's much great heat transferring ability).

which is total bs
a 50W chip doesn't pump more heat into the case because you put a better cooler on it
the point you are implying about more heat being transferred to the PCB when you have a poorer heatsink doesn't change that

since the rate of heat transfer between air and a surface is dependant only on the rate of air-flow and temperature difference between the surface and the air i think if you were to say "the copper and aluminium heatsink versions would be the same temperature in the same conditions (same air flow, air temperature, and cpu load), but the temperature difference between the heatsink and CPU would be lower with the copper heatsink" you'd be 90% correct (there'd be slight differences, eg with the copper heatsink the base would be cooler due to the cooler CPU underneath, while the heat on the fins would be less concentrated around the heatpipes)

[NotFred]

Have we all completely ignored my post previously where I demonstrated that for a given power draw, and a given airflow, the ambient temperature inside the case is the same? No matter what cooling is going on inside the case.

The heat from the CPU cannot disappear into mysterious magical places; it all has to leave the case once the system is in steady state. The only way to do this is via the airflow (the case itself will never get hot enough to start radiating heat).

If anyone can point out the flaw in this argument I’d appreciate it…

[ryboto]

3) Conversely, if an aluminum heatsink is less thermally conductive, and it transfers LESS heat to the CPU area through the heatsink, where does the rest of the heat go? (this is a big one, if you feel faint, just let this one go and let the big boys take a stab at it)

If it's less thermally conductive, the surface it's cooling will become hotter, that's where the "heat" or heat energy goes.

The heat from the CPU cannot disappear into mysterious magical places; it all has to leave the case once the system is in steady state. The only way to do this is via the airflow (the case itself will never get hot enough to start radiating heat).

If anyone can point out the flaw in this argument I’d appreciate it…

Spot on!

[Katanai]

Have we all completely ignored my post previously where I demonstrated that for a given power draw, and a given airflow, the ambient temperature inside the case is the same? No matter what cooling is going on inside the case.

The heat from the CPU cannot disappear into mysterious magical places; it all has to leave the case once the system is in steady state. The only way to do this is via the airflow (the case itself will never get hot enough to start radiating heat).

If anyone can point out the flaw in this argument I’d appreciate it…

Hot air moves up, you can not stop it. So yeah even with 0 airflow hot air will find a way to escape your case. These things are not air tight. BUT the question is how quick it does it? That's where airflow is getting in to play, if you got good airflow that warm air will go out the case faster thus lowering the overall temperature.

[Bo_Fox]

I just voted this thread with a 1-star "terrible" rating. Nobody seems to be reading each other's posts (including my posts). It's an overly bloated thread anyways. I do not want to be thread-crapping but honestly that's what I voted for 150+ argumentative posts on this thread. Next time, more statistics and less drama please.

[NotFred]

Hot air moves up, you can not stop it. So yeah even with 0 airflow hot air will find a way to escape your case. These things are not air tight. BUT the question is how quick it does it? That's where airflow is getting in to play, if you got good airflow that warm air will go out the case faster thus lowering the overall temperature.

I agree with everything you just said, but fail to see how it invalidates anything I said. I was talking about a situation with constant case airflow (be it through fans moving air around or from air escaping out the top through convection). If you increase airflow then yes, case temperature and thus component temperature. will drop. This will affect things equally no matter what heat sink is being used however.