Your favorite inline 6?

[STEvil]

And think how often they fail.

[Kai Robinson]

The sensors? Everything bar my O2 sensor the original factory sensor - the O2 is just good sense to replace.

Maybe in the US they build the sensors to be cheap and crappy so they fail, meaning you have to spend out on them again and again, but here, thats kinda frowned upon...

[speedfreak86]

The sensors? Everything bar my O2 sensor the original factory sensor - the O2 is just good sense to replace.

Maybe in the US they build the sensors to be cheap and crappy so they fail, meaning you have to spend out on them again and again, but here, thats kinda frowned upon...

Geeze, you hate american stuff. Anyway, a system that relies on a sensor reading should be designed well enough that if that sensor were to fail that the engine would not blow and really shouldn't hurt itself at all. It may not run the best, but it will work. At least that is how the control systems I have seen work. And, I work in America.

[Kai Robinson]

I don't hate american stuff, i hate CHEAP stuff, and lately, thats all the US seems to be putting out, cheap, shoddily built crap. And the whole POINT of the sensors are for feedback to the ECU, EVERY car will have at least one sensor fail in the first 15/20 years of operation, thats a given. And the important ones never just 'go' they get worse and worse and then finally fail. O2 sensors do that, air temperature sensors do that, Hall Effect sensors on dizzy's do that as well.

And i never suggested that should one sensor fail, that would be the end of it - i was explaining that there are a multitude of sensors in the engine that would be feeding data back to the ECU, if one goes, then it you get a check engine light and the ECU goes into LOS mode (limited operation strategy) and allows the engine to run enough for you to get home or to a garage. I've NEVER head of a sensor letting go when it's been most critical, they'll fail far before that happens, and if one DOES, the ECU still has the OTHER data from the OTHER sensors to step in and make a correction.

So now back on point - Petrol + Turbo = no less risky than a Diesel + Turbo.

[[XC] Lead Head]

The sensors? Everything bar my O2 sensor the original factory sensor - the O2 is just good sense to replace.

Maybe in the US they build the sensors to be cheap and crappy so they fail, meaning you have to spend out on them again and again, but here, thats kinda frowned upon...

And almost every sensor on every American car is sourced from Bosch or some other European company, at least my truck's O2 sensor and several other sensors are from Bosch. I think I'd honestly rather have a sensor outright fail and die instantly, then start giving false readings to the computer.

So now back on point - Petrol + Turbo = no less risky than a Diesel + Turbo.

Tell me, on a gasser pulling a trailer up a hill, using high boost, how is the computer going to correct for a lean condition if the fuel pump fails, or the pickup tube in the gas tank gets uncovered, or hell the O2 sensor fails making the computer think its to rich, and leans the hell out of it. Your engine is gonna be screwed simple as that.

You run a diesel to lean you just loose power. If you get a mechanically injected one, there are no sensors at all to fail, no computer to deal with, and turning up the power is easy.

[Kai Robinson]

If the pump fails, then the ECU knows that it's failed and will cut the engine instantly - it does on my 1990 vehicle, i'm sure other manufacturers have figured that out by now.

How does it know? Well, if theres no resistance on the fuel pump voltage supply, then that means the pump has burned out. And since when did fuel pumps just instantly die? Again, i've NEVER heard of it happening.

If the pickup tube in the PETROL tank gets blocked, then the fuel pump also knows about it (trying frantically to pull something through that doesn't exist) and the resistance goes to a value that again, the ECU recognises as being abnormal, and will cut the engine.

O2 sensor wont lean the mixture out enough to cause holes in the pistons - 19/20:1 is the max AFR you'll get from the ECU - any higher and....yep, thats right, it'll kill the engine and throw a code.

You're thinking about theoretical problems that for us Turbocharged vehicle owners, just simply DON'T exist. Unless you've been a complete twad, filled up with something limp wristed at the pump, turned up the boost stupidly high and disconnected the knock sensors, you're not going to put a hole in your pistons. You wont even give the valves a hard time.

Yes, yes, diesels are simpler creatures with more torque, we know this, but that still doesn't make petrol powered engines inferior in some way, unless your goal is maximum torque. In which case, why not get one of these?

http://people.bath.ac.uk/ccsshb/12cyl/

[[XC] Lead Head]

Every vehicle I've seen uses a relay to engage the fuel pump. The computer can tell if the relay is blown, but not if the fuel pump is. I have never seen a car that can tell whether the fuel pump is pumping fuel or not. Fuel pumps can instantly burn out at anytime. They have brushes, and I've seen plenty of brush motors die instantly.

I also have never heard of a computer killing an engine if it finds something wrong. I've seen some cars that will put the engine in a limp mode, but never kill it. What car do you have that does this?

Also, I'd imagine Stevil's goal IS maximum torque since he is talking about putting this engine in a truck that will be towing a fairly heavy trailer

Anyways, enough arguing, derailed this thread enough already.

[Kai Robinson]

Toyota Supra with TCCS. Theres still a fuel pump relay, but the ECU also measures the resistance from the pump. I'll see if i can find the relevant bit in the TSRM that covers it. In fact, come to think of it, for its day, it was DAMN advanced. Measured pretty much everything and had a situation to deal with anything should it 'go down'. Hell, it wouldn't even let you switch the cruise control on if you had so much as a tail light out.

If it finds something wrong thats SERIOUS enough, it'll cut the engine. If it's not serious enough, you'll just enter limp home mode and get thrown codes. If you do have something serious enough to cut the engine, you'll be able to restart afterwards, but again, the ECU will have entered limp home mode, assuming the code that was thrown is terminal (something like the TPS being out of whack).

It's not arguing, its lively discussion!

[STEvil]

I found a bus with a Ford diesel motor made in Venezuela... although I dont know the exact specs of the motor yet.

haha

[Zytek_Fan]

I found a bus with a Ford diesel motor made in Venezuela... although I dont know the exact specs of the motor yet.

haha

Could be one of the rubbish non-turbo V8s.
Or the Ford-Cummins straight-6...

[STEvil]

$1000 for the entire thing.

I need to get hold of the owner.

[RAW-Raptor22]

Could be one of the rubbish non-turbo V8s.
Or the Ford-Cummins straight-6...

If its a 6.9L leave it alone, if it is a 7.3 IDI, or a 7.3L IDI PS, then pick that thing up quick. And if its a cummins? Buy it on the spot... I'd pay $1k for the engine...

[jason str]

$1000 bucks is a deal its probably worth that much or more just in scrap metal once stripped of motor, trans and rear diff.

Bus races out here at Rockford speedway ?

[STEvil]

bus jumping > bus racing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE1p_UxbiwI

[[XC] Lead Head]

If its a 6.9L leave it alone, if it is a 7.3 IDI, or a 7.3L IDI PS, then pick that thing up quick. And if its a cummins? Buy it on the spot... I'd pay $1k for the engine...

6.9s are good reliable power plants, not much for power though.

Stevil said Ford diesel though, which makes it either a 6.6 or a 7.8 most likely. From what I found, the 6.6 and 7.8 are reliable, but are heavy hitters when it comes to power. The 6.6 is around 170-190 HP and the average 7.8 seems to be about 240HP. Although this one forum said they have the Bosch P-Pump, so there may be some hope

[trance565]

ford makes it's own deisels? i would think it would have a 6.9 or 7.3 powerstroke, that's what i see in most fords. but then again, it's a bus

[[XC] Lead Head]

ford makes it's own deisels? i would think it would have a 6.9 or 7.3 powerstroke, that's what i see in most fords. but then again, it's a bus

Ford used to make some heavy duty diesel engines. They were basically commercial farm tractor engines converted for automotive use.

[trance565]

gotcha

[RAW-Raptor22]

6.9s are good reliable power plants, not much for power though.

Stevil said Ford diesel though, which makes it either a 6.6 or a 7.8 most likely. From what I found, the 6.6 and 7.8 are reliable, but are heavy hitters when it comes to power. The 6.6 is around 170-190 HP and the average 7.8 seems to be about 240HP. Although this one forum said they have the Bosch P-Pump, so there may be some hope

And a medium turbo is always possible, and besides... power doesnt matter much as long as the torque numbers are there.

[Kai Robinson]

They've made their own diesels in the EU for a while, too. Although usually they're a collaboration with PSA - a prime example being the new DLD DuraTorq's.

[[XC] Lead Head]

And a medium turbo is always possible, and besides... power doesnt matter much as long as the torque numbers are there.

HP determines your top speed. Torque is what gets you there. Generally torque gives you acceleration while HP gives you top speed. But with the proper gearing, a 250HP 4cyl 2L gasser can pull just as easily as a 250HP 7L 6cyl Diesel

[STEvil]

although you'll be going 1/4 the speed unless you're running 5x the RPM's.

Top speed is also a function of piston travel length.

[[XC] Lead Head]

I'm not saying at the same revs, I'm saying at the RPMs each engine makes their peak HP. A 250HP 4 banger can pull as much as a 250HP 38L V16. Now the bigger engine will have power much further down, and be more pleasant to tow with. Which is what you want, to keep the revs down for maximum efficiency and longest engine life

[timosito]

Highest power 7M engine so far belongs to kwnate over on SupraMania - 842rwhp/683.20lb/ft rwtq


Hey Kai, nice to see a fellow mkIII supporter.
You should check out Mibrum's (also on supramania) 7M powered dragster. Last I heard he was making around 1340hp at 40psi, boost only. While it isn't in the MA70 chassis He definitely knows how to build the 7M.

my first post on XS and its about cars, . wth?!?

[tomashcraft]

ford 300 for gas or a cuminns diesel