Planning of 2 Stage Water Chiller

[Polizei]

Over, seriously. Are you trying to spam your way to 100 posts just to get into the FS/FT section? You have the last post in like 10 consecutive threads here on the liquid chilled forum and it was the same story on the phase change forum last night.

Posting the first post in a year in dead threads is none other than spam.

[[XC] gomeler]

Temporarily delayed until I can
1) find a displacement pump to push the goopy alcohol through the blocks
2) purchase the Mountain Mods Twice7 to house this beast
3) afford to mill out at least 2 production waterblocks

Most likely going to greenlight a mid-range cascade to attempt to raise some funds for this build. This won't be forgotten as my first 4870x2 arrives soon and will be craving some cold

[[XC] gomeler]

Found my pumps! Waiting for them to arrive and I'll test them with LN2 chilled ethanol to make sure they'll function. Next up, planning out the refrigeration system. Debating between cascade and autocascade.. leaning towards autocascade

[teyber]

nice!

[eligray]

fun to read thread, can't wait to see if it pans out.

Are you using steel flex line for all the plumbing?

[Polizei]

Now that mytek and ultralo1 have shown us that autocascades can hold a significant load really cold, I don't see why you couldn't use an auto.

For such a project, a regular cascade would be quite a bit easier, but why the hell not try an auto?

[[XC] gomeler]

Well the pump is here but I've been sidetracked with some benching and reviews. I just finished all that up though so next week I'll get started on testing the pump and then planning out the actual cooling loop. This is definitely going to be a long term project, no results anytime soon unless parts fall from the sky

fun to read thread, can't wait to see if it pans out.

Are you using steel flex line for all the plumbing?

For the blocks, yup! Can't risk something cracking and spurting flammable liquids all over the place.

Now that mytek and ultralo1 have shown us that autocascades can hold a significant load really cold, I don't see why you couldn't use an auto.

For such a project, a regular cascade would be quite a bit easier, but why the hell not try an auto?

actually was talking to mytek about autocascades, think I'm going to build one around an SC18CLX.2 and test it for this. If it works, fantastic, otherwise I'll just do a cascade

[thunder_2008]

Well the pump is here but I've been sidetracked with some benching and reviews. I just finished all that up though so next week I'll get started on testing the pump and then planning out the actual cooling loop. This is definitely going to be a long term project, no results anytime soon unless parts fall from the sky



For the blocks, yup! Can't risk something cracking and spurting flammable liquids all over the place.



actually was talking to mytek about autocascades, think I'm going to build one around an SC18CLX.2 and test it for this. If it works, fantastic, otherwise I'll just do a cascade

Hello Gomelier...I have seen your questions and wondered about asking you some ?s'.

I have an Aqua cc50 water chiller it's one of those aquarium chillers. Anyways, it's got a 1/3 HP comp....the thermostat is rated only as low as 40c.

Sure that I can do either one of two things with it:

1- ground the thermostat(temp sensor) to heat source

2- just take the thermostat out completely

This would stop the comp from turning off once reaching 40c....still I am in need of a pump so I have not yet done either of these things just yet.

As for the internals there's a radiator and the heat exchanger already setup for water...so it's not like an ac chiller that I need to add a ice chest.

But, I do rather want to be able to get like -45c....not sure that 3000btu is enough to get to that temp. 5000btu would be better.

which brings me to the question that perhaps what I should do is add another compressor and stuff....so it's a two stage.

What's the best way to go about it ahhh???

[[XC] gomeler]

Decided on doing an autocascade built around an SC18CLX.2 and an R600/R290/R1150 blend while still targeting my -80C liquid temperature. Currently selling some hardware to fund the project. The pump is a Procon all brass rotary pump meant for running pressurized water up to 250psi, all coupled to a 1/3hp motor. Since I'll be running a low restriction system I shouldn't have too much pressure but I'll be using steel tubing for everything so I'm not concerned. I've got my part list setup and I'll be taking a few pages out of Mytek's autocascade thread to help maximize this systems potential. Now time to hit up ebay

thunder_2008

It all depends on the metering device used. If it's metered with capillary tubing then you'd have to replace the capillary tubing with a longer, more restrictive tubing to reach those temperature goals. If it's a TXV or CPV then you could attempt to adjust the superheat screw however this will drastically drop it's load handling abilities and choke the compressor from the cooling suction gas stream. It it's an aquarium chiller than chances are it possible has a nice titanium heat exchanger and a decently sized condenser. Your best bet would be to find that temp probe and either stick it to the compressor, condenser, or some other hot source and see how cold it'll pull down running non-stop. Sadly you can't easily change up the capacity and load temps on a refrigeration system without supporting hardware already built in.

last note, the compressor and such could pull down to whatever temperature you want however it may not be able to shift enough heat at those temperatures to be useful. Always something to consider.

[ultralo1]

The pump is a Procon all brass rotary pump meant for running pressurized water up to 250psi, all coupled to a 1/3hp motor.

You may want to give Procon a call and talk to them. I had to rebuild one of their pumps on a lab chiller that was designed to make -40C. I was going to replace the pump until I called the system manufactuer and was quoted $900 for the pump. I called Procon to see if I could use one of the standard pumps that was much less. The engineer I talked with told me that the bearings in the regular pumps could not take that chilled temp. I ended up buying a rebuild kit so that I could replace the broken vanes in the pump itself as that was all that was broken.

[DonFaygo]

Gomeler, where you at with this build? You find a liquid that would sustain its viscousity yet?

[ilkkahy]

Some weeks ago i opened up the pump ive used with -70c:ish methanole and i noticed that the ceramic bearing had took damage. Im not sure that has this happened when opening the pump or when cold liquid was used though.

[DonFaygo]

Methanol will eat metl and plastics, but I dont think ceramic

[[XC] gomeler]

Gomeler, where you at with this build? You find a liquid that would sustain its viscousity yet?

95% ethanol works just fine. My Procon pump also works fine for the short duration of time I tested using LN2 to chill the ethanol. However this build has taken back burner to a cascade. Can't afford to build this, need to build this cascade first to use up some components and recover some money sunk into compressors. Once the cascade is sold then I'll get back to this build.

The woes of being a poor college student

Some weeks ago i opened up the pump ive used with -70c:ish methanole and i noticed that the ceramic bearing had took damage. Im not sure that has this happened when opening the pump or when cold liquid was used though.

What sort of pump were you using?

[ilkkahy]

It was Grundfos UPS 25-40



It has adjustable power from 40-45-60w.

[DonFaygo]

Looks industrial strength lol

[[XC] gomeler]

This project is not dead, simply horizontally shifted and integrated into another project.

My new toy: A procon positive pressure pump.



This is a pump designed for carbonating water via injection of pressurized CO2 and then feeding this soda water into the beverage dispenser. When I received it the procon pump was seized due to hard water deposits. Spent a couple of days rinsing it with vinegar and it is up and running. The motor attached to it is grossly oversized but I'll work with what I've got. I've been testing it today, unprimed it'll suck water and prime itself and start pumping with 1.5' of vertical height. I've got a little more testing to do but I think this guy will do. Going to measure it's flowrate later tonight.

This project is being integrated into a huge cascade/autocascade/chiller project of mine. Building a multi-use benching station, I'm tired of having multiple cooling devices for benching purposes.

[eligray]

Sounds awesome man, I can't wait to see pics

[[XC] gomeler]

Sounds awesome man, I can't wait to see pics

Me either, when is he going to start? I'll be testing grain alcohol + dry ice later tonight I think, picking up some dry ice to finish off the Koolance CPU-LN2 review, might as well combine it with this project.

[[XC] gomeler]

Just tested 70% rubbing alcohol from the grocery store, it started to gel around -30 Celsius which makes me suspect it isn't 70% alcohol. Going to buy a liter of everclear(95%) tomorrow.

[eligray]

I had "99% isopropyl" freeze at 10c warmer than 99% isopropyl's real freezing point

[Shadowtester]

It could be the additives they add to the alcohol to make it not drinkable that could be increasing the freezing point you may need to check into the other ingredients that are used in the alcohol.

[[XC] gomeler]

The ingredients are 70% Isopropyl alcohol(which is highly toxic to humans) and 30% water which should have frozen somewhere close to dry ice's boiling point in that concentration. Apparently you can purify isopropyl further by adding salt, it causes the water and alcohol to separate, which makes sense. In the long run this might be a better option than buying 95% ethanol as I'll be paying $10/liter for the ethanol or $4/liter for the isopropyl. More experimentation tonight.

[Shadowtester]

The thing is they add additional additive to the alcohol to turn it poisonous to humans and some of those additives could also be causing the problem not just the water if you want to get the water out you could boil the water alcohol mixture and capture the vapor and then condense it back into a liquid the water and alcohol have different boiling points if you stay below the boiling point of water you should be able to separate the two and purify it some.

[[XC] gomeler]

The thing is they add additional additive to the alcohol to turn it poisonous to humans and some of those additives could also be causing the problem not just the water if you want to get the water out you could boil the water alcohol mixture and capture the vapor and then condense it back into a liquid the water and alcohol have different boiling points if you stay below the boiling point of water you should be able to separate the two and purify it some.

Isopropyl is lethal to humans, just like methanol is, so there is no need for additives. I think you are thinking about when they used to sell ethanol for rubbing alcohol, they would add 5%-10% methanol(wood alcohol) to make it poisonous to avoid paying alcohol taxes.

I plan on making a still this fall for recreational purposes and recovering bad beer batches, might use it to supply my water chiller with coolant also. After researching a bit more, isopropyl isn't a good liquid to use due to it's much lower freezing point compared to ethanol. Methanol is also a little too low for my taste, looks like I'll have to go with the good stuff.