Traveling faster than the speed of light

[twilyth]

Not sure what to make of this, but it sounds interesting.

Travel by bubble might seem more appropriate for witches in Oz, but two physicists suggest that a future spaceship could fold a space-time bubble around itself to travel faster than the speed of light.

We're talking about the very distant future, of course.

The idea involves manipulating dark energy – the mysterious force behind the universe's ongoing expansion – to propel a spaceship forward without breaking the laws of physics.

"Think of it like a surfer riding a wave," said Gerald Cleaver, a physicist at Baylor University. "The ship would be pushed by the spatial bubble and the bubble would be traveling faster than the speed of light."

In theory, the universe grew faster than the speed of light for a very short time after the Big Bang, driven by the dark energy that represents about 74% of the total mass-energy budget in the universe. Dark matter constitutes 22% of the budget, and normal matter (stars, planets and everything you see) makes up the remaining 4% or so.

Strange as it sounds, current evidence supports the notion that the fabric of space-time can expand faster than the speed of light, because the reality in which light travels is itself expanding.

Cleaver and Richard Obousy, a Baylor graduate student, tapped the latest idea in string theory to devise how to manipulate dark energy and accelerate a spaceship. Their notion is based on the Alcubierre drive, which proposes expanding space-time behind the spaceship while also shrinking space-time in front.

NASA EXPLAINS: The Alcubierre 'warp drive'

String theorists had believed that a total of 10 dimensions exist, including height, width, length and time. The other six dimensions exist largely as unknowns, but everything is based on hypothetical one-dimensional strings. A newer theory, called M-theory, suggests that those strings all vibrate in yet another dimension.

Manipulating that additional dimension would alter dark energy in terms of height, width, and length, Cleaver and Obousy theorize. Such a capability would permit the altering of space-time for a spaceship, taking advantage of dark energy's effect on the universe.

"The dark energy is simultaneously decreased just in front of the ship to decrease (and bring to a stop) the expansion rate of the universe in front of the ship," Cleaver told SPACE.com. "If the dark energy can be made negative directly in front of the ship, then space in front of the ship would locally contract."

This loophole means that the spaceship would not conflict with Einstein's Theory of Relativity, which states that objects accelerating to the speed of light require an infinite amount of energy.

However, the Baylor physicists estimate that manipulating dark energy through the extra dimension requires energy equivalent to the converting the entire mass of Jupiter into pure energy — enough to move a ship measuring roughly 33 feet (10 meters) by 33 feet by 33 feet.

"That is an enormous amount of energy," Cleaver said. "We are still a very long ways off before we could create something to harness that type of energy."

The workaround solution may leave fans of Einstein pleased. But for now, faster-than-light travel remains, like Oz, a pleasant fantasy.

[Glyph]

interesting idea.... on paper. But just like the Dyson sphere, Space colonies, and the future "star trek" utopia... We'll all be long dead before the scientists even build a warp-bubble maker let alone a full drive system.

[oli_ramsay]

Sounds pretty crazy, as soons as you surpass the speed of light you go back in time. So they've invented a timemachine and space ship in 1 :-O

[WoZZeR999]

Not really, as you are not actually traveling faster than the speed of light. The wormhole theory is akin to finding the way to draw the shortest line between to corners of a piece of paper. Fold it on top of its self, and you have both drawn from corner to corner, but used very little ink/lead. The amount of ink/lead would be the travel distance.

I think the bubble theory is more interesting. If you are limited to how fast you can run, the only way to 'run faster' would be to move the ground below (in the same direction you are running) you while also running. Similar to running on a treadmill the wrong way.

[Xello]

I'm pretty sure this was theorized decades ago

[twilyth]

I'm pretty sure this was theorized decades ago

I think the dark energy aspect is new, but I won't swear to it.

[STEvil]

maybe "dark energy" is how quantum pairs communicate?

[MikeB12]

"the universe" tv show on history discussed this, I believe in the "space travel" episode... if any of you are fans, they replay it quite often... http://www.history.com/minisite.do?c...&mini_id=54036

the next episode is "beyond the big bang" which is pretty interesting, I've seen them all.. this ones a good one..
watch that link for the weekly episode. all are repeats, they've been repeating the season for a while now...


edit:
youtube has the whole "space travel" episode in 5 10 min clips..
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...l&search_type=

[wdrzal]

Google FTL or faster than light Experments. A lot has been written on this subject and yes speeds faster than light have been measured.

[ABXG]

I say use the Dark energy to power the spacecraft, might slow down the expansion of the universe a bit.

[Glyph]

perhapes the one time where excessive pollution and energy consumption is encouraged

[Jowy Atreides]

Sounds pretty crazy, as soons as you surpass the speed of light you go back in time. So they've invented a timemachine and space ship in 1 :-O

it doesn't really work like that though but yes, it does open time states

you could use the krasnikov dual tube theory to jump back or forward in perceived time to only a specific distance

[[XC] riptide]

Google FTL or faster than light Experments. A lot has been written on this subject and yes speeds faster than light have been measured.

I've read a bit on this... and they all boil down to another loophole sort of scenario. Although the wavefronts of certain radiaiton can be made to appear to travel faster than light, it still stands that no 'information' can be made travel faster than light. Also its noted that said wave fronts since also exhibit a particle like form, the rear of the waves are slower... therefore the total speed of the 'particle' is less than the speed of light.

[fart_plume]

Even Einstien had to resort to tachyeons to complete his theory(which he hated) and they do exceed the speed of light but no one seems to recall or discuss that part of the theory................

[twilyth]

I've read a bit on this... and they all boil down to another loophole sort of scenario. Although the wavefronts of certain radiaiton can be made to appear to travel faster than light, it still stands that no 'information' can be made travel faster than light. Also its noted that said wave fronts since also exhibit a particle like form, the rear of the waves are slower... therefore the total speed of the 'particle' is less than the speed of light.

I don't think you can say anything definitively since they are talking about using dark energy - something that no one has a handle on. M theory claims to - hence the speculation in the article.

[[XC] riptide]

I don't think you can say anything definitively since they are talking about using dark energy - something that no one has a handle on. M theory claims to - hence the speculation in the article.

I'm referring solely to Walts post.

[twilyth]

I'm referring solely to Walts post.

Sorry.

[Xel'Naga]

Google FTL or faster than light Experments. A lot has been written on this subject and yes speeds faster than light have been measured.

I suggest you read any general physics book before making statements like this.
Faster-than-light travel or data transmision is IMPOSSIBLE!.
The experiments you are reffering involve:
1. Bending space ( also called Alcubierre drive ), what the article refferes to. This will appear to a far away observer as faster-than-light travel but it does not break the rules of physics as no local faster-than-light speeds are observed. It happens near the event horizont of a black hole and also did during the hyper-inflation period, a short period after the Big Bang.
2. Quantum Entalgement. Interesting phenomenon, but cannot be used for faster-than-light data transmission
3. Cherenkov radiation. Faster-than-light refers to c, the speed of light in vacuum, so this is usless
4. Scharnhorst effect. Again no paradox here: http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/0107/0107091v2.pdf.

So, faster-than-light travel/data transmission is refuted by all phycisists and appears only in the realm of science fiction and in the minds of people with little physics training who read about various physics experiments and miss-interpret the results.

[DeltZ]

I suggest you read any general physics book before making statements like this.
Faster-than-light travel or data transmision is IMPOSSIBLE!.
The experiments you are reffering involve:
1. Bending space ( also called Alcubierre drive ), what the article refferes to. This will appear to a far away observer as faster-than-light travel but it does not break the rules of physics as no local faster-than-light speeds are observed. It happens near the event horizont of a black hole and also did during the hyper-inflation period, a short period after the Big Bang.
2. Quantum Entalgement. Interesting phenomenon, but cannot be used for faster-than-light data transmission
3. Cherenkov radiation. Faster-than-light refers to c, the speed of light in vacuum, so this is usless
4. Scharnhorst effect. Again no paradox here: http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/gr-qc/pdf/0107/0107091v2.pdf.

So, faster-than-light travel/data transmission is refuted by all phycisists and appears only in the realm of science fiction and in the minds of people with little physics training who read about various physics experiments and miss-interpret the results.

What does the observer see when someone achieves FTL by bending space (warp drive). Say some space ship with warp drive travelling away from earth. I'm guessing relativity doesn't work quite the same way.

[gallardo]

So, faster-than-light travel/data transmission is refuted by all phycisists and appears only in the realm of science fiction and in the minds of people with little physics training who read about various physics experiments and miss-interpret the results.

Errm... logic contradicts you.

You want to travel from point A to point B. You have 2 options:

1) Travel with the speed of light and reach your destination in 10 seconds.

2) Bend space-time and reach your destination in 1 second.

In both cases you started out at point A and ended up in point B, but in the second case you got there faster. Ergo, the second option is faster than the first. Ergo, travelling through the means of bending space-time is faster than travelling with the speed of light.

What you're trying to say, I think, is that you cannot travel faster than the speed of light in a straight euclidian line. Yeah, that might be true. Although all the scientists once agreed that you can't fly a machine heavier than air.

[Xel'Naga]

Errm... logic contradicts you.

You want to travel from point A to point B. You have 2 options:

1) Travel with the speed of light and reach your destination in 10 seconds.

2) Bend space-time and reach your destination in 1 second.

In both cases you started out at point A and ended up in point B, but in the second case you got there faster. Ergo, the second option is faster than the first. Ergo, travelling through the means of bending space-time is faster than travelling with the speed of light.

What you're trying to say, I think, is that you cannot travel faster than the speed of light in a straight euclidian line. Yeah, that might be true. Although all the scientists once agreed that you can't fly a machine heavier than air.

Suppose you take option 2.
You are traveling in a bended space and to you it appears that you are moving with a sub-luminal speed.
An outside observer will be protected from the apparent paradox by an event horizont, just like a black hole is.
So no one notices a faster-than-light speed.
It should be noted that there are mathematical solutions to Einstein's field equations that allow faster-than-light travel ( like the Reissner-Nordström metric ). But these solutions violate SUSY ( mainly, the Bogomol'nyi-Prasad-Sommerfield inequalities ) and also the weak cosmic censorship hypothesis which, altough is not formally stated, is believed to be true.

[gallardo]

You are such a nerd!

I was talking about logic, silly. You know who'll observe ftl speeds? You, when you get home back from your business conference on Pluto. And probably the misses, who didn't have time to make you dinner because the message you left her right before you left has a few more hours of near light speed travel before it reaches its destination.

[DeltZ]

I love physicist talk- looks so awesome =D

[MikeB12]

consider this... you want to get from point A to B by bending space/time to get to point B faster than the speed of light.. but as you enter the dimension between the fold, time has a different value in that dimension... so as you exist for a split second as viewed from the dimension outside the fold, the dimension between the fold is interpreted as a millions of years to your conscious mind.... so when you come out the other side, your mind thinks it's been stuck in the alternate dimension for millions of years.... but to the dimension outside the fold, it was a mere split second... you'd be a vegetable after that kind of experience...

just saying, a possibility since we don't know what that other dimension is... is it the same, similar, or completely different than ours. infinite parallel dimensions with different values of time and maybe even completely different universes with new periodic tables, strange elements not found in our universe.. or maybe a different chemical makeup where benign compounds in our universe become violently reactive in the alternate/parallel universes... the possibilities and dangers are endless if you really think about it... who's to say everything we know about our universe involving physics and chemistry even apply to other parallel or alternate universes between the folds of space and time...

something I always found interesting is one of the theories on the big bang and how it occurs... think of a glass of soapy water and all the bubbles. each bubble is a universe and it's life cycle as it expands, contracts, explodes, splits, and forms other bubbles... and inside of each of these bubbles a variable timeline is occurring, eventhough to us it's near infinite because it can't really be measured in our years as time shifts gears throughout the lifecycle of that individual bubble/universe... Violent eras, dormant eras, and dark eras where the entire universe has burned all it's resources for energy and an hour in a younger stage becomes a trillion years in a later stage of the universe "metabolism"... as these almost infinite times expend themselves, the possibilities of chemical alignment are like a deck of cards being shuffled and dealt out over and over and over trillions of times... eventually you end up with one shuffle that deals out as a perfectly aligned deck in perfect order... and in that perfect alignment of chemistry everything becomes reactive with every other element on the periodic table... and wahla, big bang... and a new bubble forms, a new universe with brand new energy abounds expanding at an incredible rate until it expands enough for energy to die down enough for everything we see in our universe today... our universe is still expanding, but at an almost infinite future date our universe will eventually burn it's energy out, contract, and become a dark and dormant universe for infinite eons until it too eventually reaches a state where those cards line up in perfect alignment and ba boom, it's dark era is over and it annihilates itself forming a new bubble, a new universe... now think back to that glass of soapy bubbles, every one of those bubbles is a universe doing this in it's own way connected to all the other bubbles, forming, exploding, splitting, and going through it's cycle of existence.. it's hard to imagine that even with the uncountable galaxies we have in our universe, that our entire universe is just a small bubble in that glass of soapy water...

[DeltZ]

remember high dimension planes are not necessarily a parallel universe and instead of being a new weird world is more of a mathematical pathway realisation.

As for the soapy bubbles. I'm inclined to think an infinite tub of soapy bubbles which are hyper dimensional-and nothing really like soapy bubbles.