Did you check the video card used in the test you linked to?Originally Posted by Hornet331
Did you check the video card used in the test you linked to?
its a 2900XT... hows that relevant anyways... in every system they used the same graphics card, so they put the same load on every systrem, regardless if it is a phenom system or a C2Q system.
The only difference is mobo/ram.
Last edited by Hornet331; 09-12-2008 at 04:25 PM.
Because as you guys have thought me, that video card will bottleneck the cpu fast. It isn't possible to produce sky high frames with that card.
If you buy a very fast video card and also buys a very fast processor that will not bottleneck the video card. You will get insane frame rates and that will draw much more power but all those frames can't be noticed by the user.
1) not if you look at the data jack/legion hw has provided, phenom seriously gimps the 4870X2from market's perspective
1) insignificantly in games
2) for a cost
3) scaling is the same as for Intel's CPUs. Platform's scaling is higher
4) true, though not sure about the "unfortunately" part. There should be a reason to buy high-end GPUs
2) depends, you need a 9850 to competent against a Q6600 (still a bit slower then a Q6600) and they are the same price, when we factor in ocing, the Q6600 is the better value.
Last edited by Hornet331; 09-12-2008 at 04:46 PM.
sry if i pull mod anger at me with that post, but seriously....
with that post you have made yourself look like a complet moron, more fps doesn't mean the graphic cards consume more power... try running furmark (without driver gimping on ati cards) and then HL1, then report back and tell me what test consumed more power and the fps.
To betake it, furmark will produce a higher load on your gpu then HL1 and will give you lower fps then HL1.
The power consumption on a card doesn't depend on waht fps it shows, it depends on waht function units on the graphics card are utilized and how hard they are stressed.
Furmark, just like Prime95 is desigend to put maximum load on a gpu, it will produce lower fps then you will find in games but the power usage of the card will be higher then in any game you will play, maybe crysis and the futuremark test can come close to this.
Last edited by Hornet331; 09-12-2008 at 04:47 PM.
What you need a fast video card for is higher settings. like the light (or what they call it) in stalker clear sky. if you get 200 FPS or 400 FPS it doesn't matter
Do you mean that a video card that calculates 200 frames for one second will use same power as one that calculates 400 frames?
it doesn't matter for you, many people, especial on this board, would disagree with you. Plus the 4800X2 is targeted at people that want "extreme peformance", why artificially constrict the peformance of a card....
This is your best point of the thread.... developers must consider the lowest common denominator or they will lose sales or really upset a lot of people.
Games have come a long way since the original Doom, sprites were replaced with models, lips began to move with voice, etc. etc. Each iteration is enabled by the install base of HW .... if anything, this is a good reason to root AMD to improve and keep up with Intel....
Jack
One hundred years from now It won't matter
What kind of car I drove What kind of house I lived in
How much money I had in the bank Nor what my cloths looked like.... But The world may be a little better Because, I was important In the life of a child.
-- from "Within My Power" by Forest Witcraft
It depends on the overall load on the card, at 640x480 400 FPS could only stress the card to 50% if it is CPU limited, while 1920x1200 at 50 FPS would generate 95% stress on the card... the 50 FPS will consume more energy.
Which reminds me ... I have power traces recorded for low res Phenom vs QX9650 ... in everything but games, the QX9650 is about 30-40% lower power, but when running games they are about even to slightly lower power for the Phenom -- reason -- the Phenom is throttling the GPU to be less taxed, and GPUs are the major power chewers in today's gaming rigs.
One hundred years from now It won't matter
What kind of car I drove What kind of house I lived in
How much money I had in the bank Nor what my cloths looked like.... But The world may be a little better Because, I was important In the life of a child.
-- from "Within My Power" by Forest Witcraft
This is your second good point of the thread, the 'pleasure' index of a good game is driven mostly by the GPU as that is the component responsible for the visual acuity, a choice of CPU is only needed to be good enough in order support a min FPS that is visual acceptable.
However, if your CPU is the min determinant, why spend excess money on an uber graphics card?
My general philosophy is a good GPU that will provide the quality I need, and the fastest CPU I can get, I want the FPS limiter to be my GPU ... why? Well, for the present time, I use the CPU for many other things other than gaming, and faster is nicer for those apps.... it is interesting that the industry is slowly changing and the paradigm of desktop personal computing is beginning to shift.
One hundred years from now It won't matter
What kind of car I drove What kind of house I lived in
How much money I had in the bank Nor what my cloths looked like.... But The world may be a little better Because, I was important In the life of a child.
-- from "Within My Power" by Forest Witcraft
Completely agree. He's like a refined troll, writing dumb posts intentionally giving the impression he's slow or something. These are the worst
Friends shouldn't let friends use Windows 7 until Microsoft fixes Windows Explorer (link)
Yup, this is on a whole new level even beyond refined, more like refined extra extra plus and give me two more on top of that.Completely agree. He's like a refined troll, writing dumb posts intentionally giving the impression he's slow or something. These are the worst
Work Rig: Asus x58 P6T Deluxe, i7 950 24x166 1.275v, BIX2/GTZ/D5
3x2048 GSkill pi Black DDR3 1600, Quadro 600
PCPower & Cooling Silencer 750, CM Stacker 810
Game Rig: Asus x58 P6T, i7 970 24x160 1.2v HT on, TRUE120
3x4096 GSkill DDR3 1600, PNY 660ti
PCPower & Cooling Silencer 750, CM Stacker 830
AMD Rig: Biostar TA790GX A2+, x4 940 16x200, stock hsf
2x2gb Patriot DDR2 800, PowerColor 4850
Corsair VX450
This is not true.... you seem to think that AMD is better at mutlithreaded code... it has a better 'scaling factor' from single threaded to more threads... this is true in some cases, but the absolute performance is still won by Intel.
Example, Cinebench is a nifty quick and easy example:
QX9650@2.5 GHz
Phenom 9850 @ 2.5 GHz
Single Thread
QX9650 = 2707
Phenom = 2065
Multithreaded (4 threads)
QX9650 = 9322
Phenom = 7793
Speed up
QX9650 = 3.44
Phenom 9850 = 3.77
So, how to read this data -- the phenom speedup factor is indeed higher, the benefit of native over MCM, however for multithreaded work the QX9650 (AT THE SAME CLOCK) is still 19.6% faster ... 4 threads, clock for clock, the 9650 is almost 20% faster, it finishes the computational task 20% faster than Phenom ...
Your 'amd is better' at multithreading needs context around it. For absolute performance, it still comes up short. Same thing in games, in CPU limited game tests Intel will be faster ... in all games I have benched this is true.
Does this mean Phenom is a slow, worthless CPU ... nope, of course not. Compared to prior generations, Phenom is a fast, good CPU -- Intel is simply faster, however, because of this Phenom is also cheaper -- AMD has priced the Phenom appropriate to the price/performance curve and makes it a compelling buy.
Even in gaming, scaling wise, Intel scales just fine with thread count:
Albiet, low res -- intentionally setting to the CPU limited regime on a 8800 GTX. I can do the 4870 X2 scaling at 1920x1200 if you like, the answer will be the same.
Jack
One hundred years from now It won't matter
What kind of car I drove What kind of house I lived in
How much money I had in the bank Nor what my cloths looked like.... But The world may be a little better Because, I was important In the life of a child.
-- from "Within My Power" by Forest Witcraft
OK, I'll delete the posts with flaming images. Is there any policy about trolling and spreading FUD?
You can scale differently, Intel (Core 2) is able to run many threads with good performance if the developer thinks about its weaknesses. If threads almost runs as separate applications not using that much memory with minimal talks it will work well using threads. Check heavy calculate applications, advanced compression. Those run well on Core 2. But this will change, it is harder for the developer to create threading like this, you need to think more about how the processor works.
Now when Intel will be out with i7 and it comes with the visual studio extensions helping developers to thread their applications this will change. Developers will not think that much about how the processor is constructed, if something needs power you just create more threads and try to split work among more cores.
There is always a performance penalty having threads that writes to same memory or needs synchronisation. C2D is ok handling this but C2Q isn’t able to handle that well at all. Running 10+ threads will be a big problem.
It is the same as those developers will not create games that need very high clocked cpus, they will not create games that are using thread techniques that runs badly for other types of processors and this is also a new area for game developers.
Last edited by gosh; 09-13-2008 at 12:24 AM.
Oh, I see... the data shows that developers are programming for Intels weaknesses .... I see, thanks.
Running 10+ threads is a big problem for a Phenom to
Last edited by JumpingJack; 09-13-2008 at 01:09 AM.
One hundred years from now It won't matter
What kind of car I drove What kind of house I lived in
How much money I had in the bank Nor what my cloths looked like.... But The world may be a little better Because, I was important In the life of a child.
-- from "Within My Power" by Forest Witcraft
You are right .... it was clear on page 1 or 2, but I have found it entertaining.Completely agree. He's like a refined troll, writing dumb posts intentionally giving the impression he's slow or something. These are the worst
One hundred years from now It won't matter
What kind of car I drove What kind of house I lived in
How much money I had in the bank Nor what my cloths looked like.... But The world may be a little better Because, I was important In the life of a child.
-- from "Within My Power" by Forest Witcraft
Yes, isn't that obvious? Intel dominates the cpu market. i7 will help AMD to show more of it's advantages. Intel knows that the performance on core 2 architecture can’t be increased that much more.Oh, I see... the data shows that developers are programming for Intels weaknesses .... I see, thanks.
Running 10+ threads is a big problem for a Phenom to
If you run a lot of applications concurently this will be one area that amd runns well if you need more speed now
BRAVO!
Last edited by gOJDO; 09-13-2008 at 02:35 AM.
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=12648&page=7
data proves your wrong, if AMD loses with 5 threads and 6 threads what do you think will happen with 10 threads.
Plus im sure Jack could give you even more data.
Last edited by Hornet331; 09-13-2008 at 02:35 AM.
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=12648&page=7
data proves your wrong, if AMD loses with 5 threads and 6 threads what do you think will happen with 10 threads.
Plus im sure Jack could give you even more data.
One hundred years from now It won't matter
What kind of car I drove What kind of house I lived in
How much money I had in the bank Nor what my cloths looked like.... But The world may be a little better Because, I was important In the life of a child.
-- from "Within My Power" by Forest Witcraft
Well, I was being sarcastic... but a question... how can being so far behind on the performance curve be an advantage?
I am done with this....
Deneb and i7 will be out soon. Intel' pretty much enjoy's a 10-30% performance lead over K10 clock for clock pretty much across the board, this is clear from the data ... your persistence to completely ignore or reject all the data and conclude completely contradictory to that data firmly labels you as a blinded AMD fanboy. This is hopeless, there a more of your type around the net than what people can shake a stick at... and, frankly, the only one on this board this far out in left field of make believe.
Be prepared, Intel's current lead will be extended over Deneb it will not be pretty. Some preliminary info has leaked both on Deneb and Nehalem, Deneb will need to do much much better than what has been shown to be competitive. Remember this when you look for the first set of reviews comparing these two ... also, remember, Nehalem at the core is still the core microarchitecture.
Frankly, I am worried... it is not in my best interests for either company to fall this far behind the other. I am hoping Deneb has more juice than what is currently being shown.
Last edited by JumpingJack; 09-13-2008 at 07:04 AM.
One hundred years from now It won't matter
What kind of car I drove What kind of house I lived in
How much money I had in the bank Nor what my cloths looked like.... But The world may be a little better Because, I was important In the life of a child.
-- from "Within My Power" by Forest Witcraft
Hell you threw him in the middle of the lake and he still couldn't figure out he's surrounded by water!I am done with this....
Work Rig: Asus x58 P6T Deluxe, i7 950 24x166 1.275v, BIX2/GTZ/D5
3x2048 GSkill pi Black DDR3 1600, Quadro 600
PCPower & Cooling Silencer 750, CM Stacker 810
Game Rig: Asus x58 P6T, i7 970 24x160 1.2v HT on, TRUE120
3x4096 GSkill DDR3 1600, PNY 660ti
PCPower & Cooling Silencer 750, CM Stacker 830
AMD Rig: Biostar TA790GX A2+, x4 940 16x200, stock hsf
2x2gb Patriot DDR2 800, PowerColor 4850
Corsair VX450
Thread closed, party invitations being readied.
All along the watchtower the watchmen watch the eternal return.
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