Yes, Another Car Radiator Thread....Major 56K Warning!

[Naja002]

that's why I get new rads(you can jack them from just about anyone who fixes cars) no, I'm kidding... good job fixing it tho... I never thot that you can do that to fix it.... well, that particular tube was useless anyway so, no worries except condensation

Hi 1oooop,

It is a “New” rad, but who knows how long it’s been sitting in a warehouse…..? Anyway, if you look at the pic below:



Right above the yellow line you can see where the fins have been compressed. And to the right of the white line shows that apparently that general area has been somewhat compressed. When that occurred…I have no idea. But I didn’t notice it until after I started checking things out because of the leak. So, I cannot really expect the folks that I bought it from to have noticed it…..and it IS possible that the damage occurred during shipment to me—but I really don’t think that was the case. These folks pack the rads very well: Formed foam, double boxed, etc. There was no damage to the shipping box to give me any indication that there had been a problem, so I am assuming that it was shipped this way…..

Either way, stuff happens….. Just glad that I managed to get it working without spending more $$$.

just thought of the coolest thing ever and this gave me the inspiration.

ok things you will need shovel and lots of PVC

k so dig a big hole in your yard about 2 meters by 2 meters and about 1 meter down
then lay pvc tubing down in a back and forth pattern
then rig it up to your WC loop

i think this will work cause ground temp is about 7-21 degrees Celsius 1 meter down

Hi Hobo,

Here’s a link that might interest You:

Ground loopin' - Look ma, no fans or rads.


I kinda started out thinking in that direction, but wound up heading this direction. Right now my goal is simply to conserve as much of the heat this winter as I can….and see how this indoor/outdoor rad setup works—in other words: Play with it. One thing that I’ve found is that I can run the entire setup on either pump alone.
But don’t think for an instant that the geothermal route isn’t on my mind! I have an area that’s 14’ x 3’ x 16” deep (and can be expanded) that I can re-excavate pretty easily and line with copper loops…similar to the link above. I have most of the stuff and it will probably only cost me $450-$500 + effort to make it happen....

But I may very well pursue a chiller this spring….”disconnect” the outside rad and install a 5K-8K chiller in its place. One neat effect that I’ve found with this indoor/outdor rad setup is that I can actually Cool this room with this indoor rad. Now who wants that in the middle of winter, right? The point is by adding a chiller to the out-building—I will be removing the heat from the water loop, BUT—by leaving the indoor rad hooked up and functional it will begin to behave as a heatsink and help draw ambient heat out of this room---and into the out-building! Think I’m crazy? Well, now that the weather is cooler—I can experience this with the current dual rad setup. The question is: Would I gain this benefit—without the electric cost—by pursuing the geothermal v. a chiller? Not sure, but I’m trying to figure it out….and I have decided to pursue the geothermal first—because, if it works well, it will provide natural cost effective cooling in the summer and then turn around and, possibly, provide heat during the winter!

This project is nowhere near done. I’m just always trying to figure out what path to take next and why….

This reminds me of what BladeRunner did several years ago. His website Zero Fan Zone (ZFZ) has since shut down, and all traces of it are now gone, but that guy did some amazing stuff. I remember he used a tractor to dig a 10 foot deep hole, then burried a huge tank down there where it was always cold - then he pumped the water in though his house. Every component of his system was watercooled (from scratch): even the PSU. That guy made some AMAZING watercooling parts.

He pretty much fell off the face of the internet...anyone know what happened to him?

Shame. I would like to check out some of his work. Google could help, but “BladeRunner” is just too common of a username, and then add in the movie, etc

Very nice setup.

I would keep the barrel.

Thanx, Bro. Honestly, I really, seriously think that the barrel is coming out of the system. Right now, I’m working on too many other things to really deal with it, plus winter is here….I’m not really using the outdoor rad setup. But I think that during the warmer periods it actually collects ambient heat, so its not helping the setup. I could wrap it as I’ve mentioned before, but I’m not sure I want to bother with that at this point. I expect it to go, but really don’t know right now….

I agree, I can only hope to have a setup this good

Thanx. If you are into PCs and WCing long-term: Its worth the effort IMO….

WTF!!! alot of time on your hands bro? lol nice build though it keeps everything nice n cool....


now make a chiller !!!

Yep, and I like it this way. Gives me plenty of time to chill out and do what I wanna do instead of all that other stuff…..

Chiller? Naaaa, not right now. I’ve decided to go geothermal first. Copper coils will be here today. I’ve already picked up most of the stuff from Lowes. Not sure when I’m going to actually get it setup, but since there’s a shovel involved—I’ll wait for a fairly cool day…

Just keep in mind that I'm adding geothermal to what is already here (dual rads, etc). I will set it up, so that it can be isolated, but everything is remaining the same for now plus a geothermal loop. Hope that makes sense....

i wonder if i can use a car water pump... hmm

If its electric---maybe…..

[TsvetanVR]

Just one thing to say - You're a really sick man!!!

[[XC] Hicks121]

Just one thing to say - You're a really sick man!!!

Yes he is.....

[Naja002]

{Best Elvis voice}

Thank You. Thank You Very Much......

[Naja002]

I will be updating this thread shortly....

Just added a new element to this setup:

The Hole…Geothermal Loop…56K Warning!

Check it out....money well spent.

[septim]

money and sweating back breaking work well spent indeed! nice.

[Naja002]

money and sweating back breaking work well spent indeed! nice.

Agreed. Looks so promising at this point that I am getting it together to add a second PC dedicated loop, but Ya'll will have to check that thread for details.....


Here's some pix already posted in the Geo-loop thread.

This is the current PC setup:






The cardboard is supposed to be temporary, but may just wind up being permanent. I can use it for a template to cut out some plywood to stain, but it's way on the back-burner for now. It really helps cool that area though. That's where the HDs and PSUs are....so it warms up pretty good. Temps stay ~7-10F above ambient in there now which is more than adequate by me.



The indoor rad setup:

Connections made to the seasonal manifold:



The 2 tees/ blue tubes coming out of the floor are for the Geo-loop.

I've already fixed the creased tubing with an elbow:



Tubing, pump, etc:



Pump, Rad, etc:




This setup has worked out very well this year. It turned cold quickly, and I just turned on my main heater for the first time 3 days ago. I have run it 3x for a total of 3hrs. That's it. Other supplemental heat comes from a single 1K w $20 space heater from Wally-world. It has been mostly off until these last few days where its been quite cold. And I have removed the dryer vent from venting outside, covered it with pantyhose in order to pump all that heat back indoors, instead of heating the neighborhood. It's run on perm press, not Hot.

This is kinda how it goes:

There is a 9" fan from wally-world the center of which is 21" down from the ceiling. The door to this room is wide-open and the fan is blowing the warm air down the hall. That's 24/7.

With Daytime temps in the 60's and only the car rad heating the place...I end up opening the back door until temps outside drop to about 58F. Without opening the backdoor, temps in this room get up to 89F. The other end in the high 70's-low 80's.

With daytime temps in the 50's or below...the back door stays closed. Temps get up to 84-86F in this room.

Heating with only the PCs/rad temps is fine until outside temps start dipping into the 30's....then it starts to become time to turn on the space heater. It has a thermostat, so it doesn't run constantly...just helps out some.

When temps start hitting about 30F or below....it's time to do some laundry (dryer heat) or turn on the main heater (below 30F).

The last few days the daytime high's have been in the low 40's to mid 30's. Night time lows have been low 30's to mid-high 20's, so the laundry is getting caught up and/or the main heater has been turned on....

So, since it's gotten cold early and quickly this yr, I have had about 6 wks with probably 98% of the heating supplied by these PCs. The other 1.5% has been the 1K space heater and I guessimate 0.5% from the dryer/main heater....and that's only been in the last few days for the main heater and couple of weeks for the dryer vent (gotta do laundry any way... ) It's been cloudy and rainy with fronts coming through, etc, so this place hasn't been collecting much radiant heat from the sun.

If this plays out this well toward the spring, then I am looking at 3 months without adding any heat other then my PCs this year. Lowest temps in here this year have been ~72F in this room and 65F on the other end. Normally they are much higher, but those are the lowest indoor temps and that is on the coldest nights with only the space heater adding help....sometimes.


I am going to take some videos of the temps with the outside rad. The window is closed and the fans are off, so its totally passive. I'll post that stuff when I get it together.

Overall I am very happy with this setup. However, I am still moving forward. The Geo-loop looks very promising, but it will be used for super low-cost A/C this summer. However, it looks so promising that I am installing a 2nd loop dedicated to just the PCs. Slightly different setup and install, but I expect it to work very well. The outside car rad is going into the living room for the low cost A/C setup. I expect all of this "experimentation" to start paying for itself.....about 6 wks ago. So, hopefully, by this time next year the PCs will be geo-cooled (coming very soon), and all my efforts will provide at least the bulk of the heat and a/c at a greatly reduced cost to me. I expect to have my 8K btu a/c unit available to be turned into a Geo-heat pump for supplemental heating next yr.

[1oooop]

try copper tubing... itsz the best!!! LOL... seriously... try copper tubing

[soundood]

^ yeah right you are matey^

[Naja002]

try copper tubing... itsz the best!!! LOL... seriously... try copper tubing

^ yeah right you are matey^

Not sure what Ya'll are getting at........if its the geo-loop then it's already installed, and it's copper tubing. I have already built a 2nd geo-loop from copper pipe that is ready to be installed. The thread is here:

The Hole…Geothermal Loop…56K Warning!

[AlucardCasull]

That is incredibly awesomely cool. Nice work.

[Naja002]

That is incredibly awesomely cool. Nice work.

Thanx! Still tinkerin' with it though.....




Well, it's been a long cold winter. Using the indoor rad has worked very well all things considered. The indoor rad has now been switched over to the geothermal loop linked above--the benefits of which are still yet unseen....warmer weather is just now getting here. Today was the first day in the 80's.

For this summer I have gone back to the rad in the out-building, except this time: I have TWO rads sandwiched in the shroud. Identical rads, except for the number of rows: 1x 3-row and 1x 2-row. They are setup in series. The water leaves the PCs and goes into the 3-row, then the 2-row, then to the pump and back to the PCs. The airflow/water flow are setup like this:



Those, of course, are not the rads I'm using....

This is currently giving me temps of 1.2-2.3C (2-4F) above ambient! (with the fans on high=~90w) Ambient being what is reported real time by the weather service--I'll need to do some type of check with a thermometer though.


Now I am currently adding a double bong cooler to the setup. Everything is bought, most of the work is done, but it's not completed yet. I will take some pix and document it. I'm hoping to get temps below ambient--not much, but any little bit will help. The setup will run:

PCs>Dual Rads>Dual Bong Coolers> Res w/ pump>PCs

Now I understand rads behaving as a heatsink and all that. In fact, that's the purpose/intent of the rad in the geothermal loop. Got it. But here is what I am thinking with the Bong Coolers: Adding these BCs will actually make this an open loop, so some of the variables of a closed loop will no longer apply (like lack of vertical head, etc). The water will go from the res to the PCs and collect heat (energy). It will then go to the dual rads which will remove most of that heat. Then it will travel straight to the BCs where evaporation will (should) remove even more heat (energy) bringing (hopefully) the temp below ambient.

The biggest problem I see is the "tub" that I am using--It's not insulated, etc, so it may collect enough ambient energy to prevent getting below ambient temps. However, running at ambient would be cool by me. So, an insulated cooler may be needed for a res, but at this point--I'm not going to sweat it. Just going to check it out for what it is and decide later where to go from there.

[Naja002]

Altered the system. The Bong Coolers are installed and operational. Check it out:

Bong! Bong! Bong!

[Naja002]

Added a small element to this setup. I've kept aquariums on and off for many years. Last few years they have been fully automated. Auto: Water changes, lights, C02, Fert dosing, etc, etc, etc.....don't even need to feed the fish. Anyway, Appliance timers really help out on that. I have some extras that I'm not currently using, so I decided to hook up a double appliance timer:





This timer controls 2 appliances which is perfect for my car rad fans:



I should have done this sooner. The day time highs and the night time lows--during spring and fall-- are a real pita, because during the day I have to watch my cpu high temps and at night I have to watch out for condensation when temps outside get somewhere below 48F/9C. During the winter the setup is switched over to the indoor rad to help provide winter heat, so that's not a problem. But spring and fall are murder.....

Right now the fans are set to come on at 9am and go off at 11pm. That will save 10hrs of wear-n-tear and a little juice (90w on high). I will probably run the fans 24/7 once summer temps get here, but we'll see what happens there.

The Bongs and Horizontal Volenti Cooler handle the load very well. The only issue may be the high humidity at night and during the early morning. So, for now, between 11pm and 9am the system will run on the Bongs and HVC. Adjustments will be made as temps/issues rise....


Also added an HVC (Horizontal Volenti Cooler) to this system. It's just a toy that I am playing with, but may incorporate it permanently....who knows?