Issue with NoL

[Planet]

I originally agreed with NoL for him to build me a 2 stage cascade for benching with high load quad cores in August/September. I got him the cash to start and buy all the parts for the unit. He said it should be finished in November. However he was also dealing with issues with the 3 stage and the other 2 stager he was building. So I said ok that’s fine just making sure it’s done properly by end of December.

Then I was asked to bring my cascade to CES. So I told NoL it needed to be done and working by the day after Christmas so I can ship it in time for it to show up to CES. Well the gauge on the front was not working (we will come back to that later). So I picked it up and put it in the case on the 25th of December. He still hadn’t wired it up finally so he rushed wiring it and didn’t crimp half of the connections properly. So I had to spend more money buying more connections and re-crimping it when I should have been crating it for CES. Well I worked through the night into the next day and got it mostly done and crated and shipped for CES.

CES the unit worked for a probably a few hours and then the 1st stage and 2nd stage temperatures severely dropped. The cascade was just not working properly. We tried it again the next day and nothing. It was shipped back to me in February. I finally unpacked it and got it back to Nol over 2 months ago. We found a leak on the 1st stage and he said it was due to high pressure on the 1st stage. Probably because it was started without the water cooling hooked up. (Well he was the one that did that at his work shop before I picked it up. He had disconnected the water loop and fired it up to show me the temperatures.)

Along with the leak the gauge was not working properly. He took the gauge off and hooked it up to his co2 tank and it worked. So he put the gauge back on. He told me it was working and that I could pick up the unit 2 weeks ago (both a friend and I took off a full day of work to go pick up the unit and rewire it). Well 5 minutes before I show up to his house he texts me saying that the gauge is no not working after he moved it and tightened it. We had 3-4 people at CES say that the gauge looked like it had braze blocking it.

I told him to cut the gauge off and we hooked it up to his co2 tank with the cap tube. Little by little we cut the cap tube until it was down to about the last inch. It was totally brazed shut. So he said it was impossible that he brazed it shut. So I cut it in half with a hack saw and showed him the inch and a half cap tube that was totally brazed shut. Now remember he claims he got the gauge working but it mysteriously stopped. He also claims he has pictures of the gauge working from between the time I dropped it off to the time I picked it up. I asked to see the pictures immediately and he said he didn’t have them they were on his other camera. Well I have asked him now another 2-3 times and they still have not shown up. Probably because they don’t exist. So he lied to me and wasted 3 hours of my time just in driving not to mention a full days pay for a friend and I lost.

At this point I knew I wasn’t getting the unit back but he was trying to get out of not fixing it properly and said he would just hook a gauge up to a charging hose and seal it on both ends to the high side Schrader and the other end or the gauge. I told him this was not acceptable and he took another gauge off and brazed it on and vacuumed the 2nd stage for 20-30 minutes (maybe less). Then he started to charge it. He was rushing it trying to get it to me that night but he wasn’t even going to load test it. By that time it was already 7:30-8 PM. So my friend and I left basically wasting our entire day and my gas driving to and from Nol’s house. So now the gauge works but he somehow forgot that the gauge won’t be able to be seen from inside the case. I told him I was going to mount it in the front of the case so it’s visible when the case is closed. When he replaced the gauge he never thought about that and just brazed it in and its 2 inches to short.

I am sick and tired of him lying to me, trying to rush to do things because he has no time to work on the unit and not doing things properly. In the end it’s causing me more money, more time, and lost sleep over the whole ordeal. I would not recommend using NoL to build your unit.

I am sure has going to come back and make some claims I screwed up the unit somehow or that this is untrue.

I only ask people involved with this issue reply to the thread.

[n00b 0f l337]

You never said anything about gauge being too short or anything! What's with that.
As for the original gauge not working, I tested gauge, and I tested system, gauge worked, yes the gauge for some reason did not work. Also, the system at CES did not work apparently due to a leak in the schrader, not sure how that happened especially with cap on. I recharged that and bumped to r402a for you. When you came and we replaced the gauge, I took one off my cascade project, you never mentioned it was too short and said that would be fine, would it be possible simply to mount gauge on side of case instead of front? Sorry for a small inconveinence.
When I put on the new gauge I did rush to show you the system was working, after that I did pull a proper vacuum again and recharge, showed you results again and then DROVE THE UNIT DOWN TO YOU, you lost no gas or money in this, and all of a day or two. In the meantime as for wiring, its not beautiful, however there is nothing wrong with it, and much of the wiring you YOURSELF did.

I find you unnecesarily rushing me, then never contacting me about problems before rushing me out of my control. I have tried to ammend the situation at every turn, from putting on a new gauge, recharging first and second numerous times, driving the unit to you on my own gas and time, and replacing gauge and such at no cost to you. All I see now is that your saying the capillary to the gauge is to short? And thus this is a huge problem?

If theres something else wrong, please let me know, you've never pm'd me about the gauge being too short or anything. Jake I have no idea how I've wronged you. As for camera pics, my mother is on her honeymoon after he wedding last weekend, and yes you even said congrats to her so I know you know about that, and she has the camera. In that contains a memory card, since you really seem to want pics of that gauge working, thats not a problem at all, I have them on that stick, 99.995% certain. You have asked me twice now for those pictures, but within 24 hours of each other, or immediately at the original moment, times when the camera, which I do not own is not in my hand.

Jake tell me the problem and I'll gladly fix it, seriously, never ever have said no to fixing any of the problems we've had or anything.

So let's recap that.

Finished your two stage for you, you saw it working, except gauge, however CES was around corner and you had to rush to crate and ship it that night, so said we'll fix after, gauge again worked during pressure testing at that time before charging. Get to CES seems to work fine, however you say you don't have WC components, and they arrive a day later. You have told me you tested it then, I have seen schraders start leaking if they see incredibly high pressure (350+ psi), which is possible without the WC'ing hooked up. Not a problem with me though I recharged it when it got back. Again gauge not working when you go to pick it up, odd cause I had it working, we ripped that assembly down to find some gray stuffs in the captube at the braze end of it, it's not braze, but it was something. Possibly some oxidiation, Chris thinks it might be or is braze, fine, I saw gauge working, unit was working fine at that time. I offer to put new gauge on right then, and check to make sure it works and all that. I then retuned. You asked me to deliver memorial day, I ended up walking in a parade as a Boy Scout, and delivered the next day no problems. Now gauge is too short apparently by a few inches, something you didn't mention and haven't except here, if you'd like to bring it back thats fine, if we can mount it somewhere else thats fine too. It's a minor inconveinence. Something I'm glad to fix.

Why not contact me when theres a problem?

So theres a slight gauge issue, do we have anything else that seems to require a thread here?

I'm never more then a text or PM away, and I've invited you over and benched with you, I don't see why the hostility either. I realize you've been rushing to move, however I've been trying to make your deadlines as well, and have except for 24 hours it would seem.

[INJViper]

When we tore that end piece apart it did not look like oxidation to me it looked like it was brazed shut and that last inch of captube looked to be full cuz it was solid. As for the gauge being short he already has the whole cut in the front for the gauge so I doubt he wants to put the gauge anywhere else. All I can say for certain is the Gauge didn't work at CES the rig performed like also the gauge didn't work when we were at your place and imho the end was brazed shut. I did take a full day off from work to help Jake rewire the unit and unfortunately we never got to wiring it.

Chris

I have no stake in this one way or another I'm just posting my opinions and what I saw.

[n00b 0f l337]

Considering when I debrazed it to remove it I got it cherry red, I'm pretty sure it was blocked then. Still I have no idea what the gray stuff in the captube was. So the issue is the gauge? When I saw the unit yesterdays yesterday (tuesday?), sorry wait 3 days ago, he had not drilled the hole, so we can wait for him to verify that. Or the gauge can be mounted in a tube extension.
We already established that at CES though it did not perform, I was sorry for that inconveinence then and am sorry now, and that is why I waited for 2-3 months for Jake to unpack it when it sat in his garage so I could fix it for him!

So the big issue is the current gauge has 2" too short of captube.

So Jake, what would you like to do about this minor issue.

[Planet]

You never said anything about gauge being too short or anything! What's with that.
As for the original gauge not working, I tested gauge, and I tested system, gauge worked, yes the gauge for some reason did not work. Also, the system at CES did not work apparently due to a leak in the schrader, not sure how that happened especially with cap on. I recharged that and bumped to r402a for you. When you came and we replaced the gauge, I took one off my cascade project, you never mentioned it was too short and said that would be fine, would it be possible simply to mount gauge on side of case instead of front? Sorry for a small inconveinence.
When I put on the new gauge I did rush to show you the system was working, after that I did pull a proper vacuum again and recharge, showed you results again and then DROVE THE UNIT DOWN TO YOU, you lost no gas or money in this, and all of a day or two. In the meantime as for wiring, its not beautiful, however there is nothing wrong with it, and much of the wiring you YOURSELF did.

I find you unnecesarily rushing me, then never contacting me about problems before rushing me out of my control. I have tried to ammend the situation at every turn, from putting on a new gauge, recharging first and second numerous times, driving the unit to you on my own gas and time, and replacing gauge and such at no cost to you. All I see now is that your saying the capillary to the gauge is to short? And thus this is a huge problem?

If theres something else wrong, please let me know, you've never pm'd me about the gauge being too short or anything. Jake I have no idea how I've wronged you. As for camera pics, my mother is on her honeymoon after he wedding last weekend, and yes you even said congrats to her so I know you know about that, and she has the camera. In that contains a memory card, since you really seem to want pics of that gauge working, thats not a problem at all, I have them on that stick, 99.995% certain. You have asked me twice now for those pictures, but within 24 hours of each other, or immediately at the original moment, times when the camera, which I do not own is not in my hand.

Jake tell me the problem and I'll gladly fix it, seriously, never ever have said no to fixing any of the problems we've had or anything.

So let's recap that.

Finished your two stage for you, you saw it working, except gauge, however CES was around corner and you had to rush to crate and ship it that night, so said we'll fix after, gauge again worked during pressure testing at that time before charging. Get to CES seems to work fine, however you say you don't have WC components, and they arrive a day later. You have told me you tested it then, I have seen schraders start leaking if they see incredibly high pressure (350+ psi), which is possible without the WC'ing hooked up. Not a problem with me though I recharged it when it got back. Again gauge not working when you go to pick it up, odd cause I had it working, we ripped that assembly down to find some gray stuffs in the captube at the braze end of it, it's not braze, but it was something. Possibly some oxidiation, Chris thinks it might be or is braze, fine, I saw gauge working, unit was working fine at that time. I offer to put new gauge on right then, and check to make sure it works and all that. I then retuned. You asked me to deliver memorial day, I ended up walking in a parade as a Boy Scout, and delivered the next day no problems. Now gauge is too short apparently by a few inches, something you didn't mention and haven't except here, if you'd like to bring it back thats fine, if we can mount it somewhere else thats fine too. It's a minor inconveinence. Something I'm glad to fix.

Why not contact me when theres a problem?

So theres a slight gauge issue, do we have anything else that seems to require a thread here?

I'm never more then a text or PM away, and I've invited you over and benched with you, I don't see why the hostility either. I realize you've been rushing to move, however I've been trying to make your deadlines as well, and have except for 24 hours it would seem.

Ok I lost no gas or money or my day? How are you figuring that?
Chris and I both took off work to pick the unit up. The unit was not done and was not ready for me to pick up on the date agreed upon. Yet instead of telling me it wasnt done you waited till i was pretty much there. Taking off work alone is over 240 dollars in wages for the day between both of us. Yes I had to redo half the wirinng(in 5 minutes before it was crated) because your crimps all fell off due to not being crimped properly.

How was I rushing you. The unit was supposed to be done in November and then I said focus on SDumpers to get his done then get mine done by December. Then I told you I needed it for CES 2 weeks ahead of time and you said you could get it done on time. When I picked it up the gauge was not working it wasnt even wired. You had the waterhx being held up by a compressor cap!

Then I finally got the unit back in February from CES due to ground freight shipping. I was to upset to take it off the pallet e and drive it to your house. Ask chris how much I enjoyed CES knowing that my cascade was ed up yet I was asked to bring it out there for a company to use? Also you at that point were still dealing with Sdumper issues into April. So I figured I would leave it till March when all of that was done.

As for the pictures. I asked you that night where they were you said you were going over your dads and would get them to me that night. I asked for them the next day and you said you would get them. Then I asked for them 2 weeks later before your mothers wedding and you were like ill get them from my brother. You said the same thing before you started to deliver the unit. You had 2 weeks to get the pictures off the camera and to me.

I am sorry Chris and I both agree it was not oxidation. It was tough and metallic. We could only get through it with a hack saw. It wasnt gray it was silver.

Oh and about delivery lets take this from a PM. Since I was going to be away all weekend.


"Grrr...
Could I leave it outside? Maybe wrap in Seran? Else I can't bring by till Monday at 4 ish."

I asked you several times if you were going to make it Monday and you said yes. Now your ing about using my gas although you can waste a full tank in my car, a full day of Chris's and mine.

And its not about the gauge being 2 inches to short. Its about this whole ordeal and the lies. Telling me its gonna be done then it not being done properly 2!!!!!two!!!!!! times.

Im not the only one who has had issues with one of your units over the past few months either.

[n00b 0f l337]

Even though you used gas, it would have been gas you would have used another day, I used my own gas to bring the unit down. As for a day of work, I am sorry, I did not think of it in that sense. And you did not have to redo the wiring becuase the crimps "were done wrong", you did the wiring to begin with. Also your original case design had a prop for the water HX, I placed a cap under neath it to hold it up for the ride.
I have had one or two other people have issues wth my units, often shipping related when a UPS worker drop kicks it, however I have solved and even built brand new units for those people, I solve problems so please don't try and ride on that.
That taken from PM, give some context, you had asked when I could, I said I would need till Monday, beleive that was Thursday? That was because I had a wedding to attend 3 hours away that would consume my weekend. Then Monday came and I told you it would have to wait another 24 hours due to a Memorial Day parade. That's not your time wasted or anything. I then drove it down Tuesday in thunderstorms and high wind rain to get it to you.

[Planet]

I did none of the wiring to begin with. You did and when I brought it home the fans weren't wired, and half the crimps you did fell off. Where in my original case design did I show you or ever say there would be something holding the water HX up. Yea thats right never I never did and there never was any design for it. I still dont have the pictures from the camera of the gauge working and its been how long now?

[n00b 0f l337]

You brought all the electricals as well, you even drilled the holes for power switches. You also did not originally bring the 12v powersupply you said you would, and thus said leave all the wires and you'd wire when you got home. Your case design did include a hold for that AND the water pump. Just like a spot for the radiator which never went in.

[Planet]

You brought all the electricals as well, you even drilled the holes for power switches. You also did not originally bring the 12v powersupply you said you would, and thus said leave all the wires and you'd wire when you got home. Your case design did include a hold for that AND the water pump. Just like a spot for the radiator which never went in.

Show me where in the design there is a spot for the water hx to be held up?/ as far as the pump that was being velcroed on to a mount above the heat exchanger. I said I would wire up the PSU not the fans. Besides that what I got was a half assed and rushed unit Nol both times. Dont even start to give me this bull I rushed you either. You had more than enough time. You should have done everything right the first time.

BTW where are the picture of the gauge?

[Planet]

Been well over a month and guess what still no pictures. Nol you lied to me and broke your promises.

[n00b 0f l337]

Haven't even bothered to check, you did not come to me with this problem of the gauge before even posting, and it's a small thing. I have asked you to tell me what you'd like done about it, and you say nothing. Considering you haven't even made the hole in the case yet for the gauge, clearly it's not a problem.
You lied to everyone in this thread, you made the case, you provided the powersupply for the fans, and the wiring. I can't wire in a non existent power supply obviously that you said you would do.

[Planet]

NoL you left the fans bare with little to no ends on them. Yea exactly been almost 2 months and after multiple times of saying you would get me the pictures you still havent. You have a lot to learn if you are going to be selling units and doing business on the forums. You can at least run a few feet of wire from the fan. But no you like to half ass everything. Nol you lied to me on more than one occasion. I am done with you and I hope nobody ever has to deal with your bull and lies.

Yea what happened to you shipping Andres unit a week after I dropped mine off but yet it was still there hadn't been moved in a month and a half. You did the same thing and sat on SDumpers for weeks cuz you realized you screwed up and quoted him the wrong price for freight which I told you was wrong 5 times. You have pretty bad business practices and try to make a quick buck rather than doing things right. You did the same thing with xkids having his sit there for weeks ready to go out but you just let it sit. You do that with everybodys unit nol. Then you rush at the last minute.

At this point I dont want the gauge fixed and the thing still isnt holding a load that well. At this point i should just throw it in the dumpster next door.

[Planet]

Just another tid bit of information only reaching temps of -82C at idle 1.6v 4ghz.

[n00b 0f l337]

Close the oil valve? Or open and close to flush out. Or simply wait for pulldown, it's a bit slow of a pulldown. Especially in hotter ambients.

[Planet]

Close the oil valve? Or open and close to flush out. Or simply wait for pulldown, it's a bit slow of a pulldown. Especially in hotter ambients.

Waited close to an hour for it to pull final temps. I open the oil valve for 15 seconds ever 20-30 minutes. Eventually just left it open and it made no change.

BTW nice job leaving a 2 inches of suction line exposed when you originally build it.

[n00b 0f l337]

Bullocks, that's simply it all squeegeyed to one side. Foam is rather elastic.

[Planet]

Yea then why didnt you fix it before I picked it up? Lol its not like we didnt try to stretch it it was 2 inches to short and you know it. What about the performance issue? As you can see the cascade still isnt working as it should even though you said you put it on a load tester.

[n00b 0f l337]

You have the valve open, you need to close it, that'll reduce suction pressure and allow all the ethylene to head to the evap.
I did fix the foam, simply pushed it an inch and tada, you insisted on packing the flex line INSIDE the case even though I asked you to not, because "it makes my packing job easier" as you said.

[Planet]

No I packed it inside so it wasnt flopping around all the way to and back from Cali. I packed it exactly how you had it when I picked it up. No you didnt fix the foam at all we had to add more at CES. You never said anything about shipping the unit with the flex that way. The flex is supposed to be flexible duh. Nol your just trying to make up so you dont look bad. Like I said in my previous post that you didnt read. I was opening it and closing it it made no difference. When I originally picked up the unit you said that both SDumpers cascade and mine we could just leave it open.

[n00b 0f l337]

No, originally I said yours could operate, then I dropped the propane charge, and clearly told you how to use the hand valve. It's like any other non floated cascade. It takes a bit to react, it's like a 18 wheeler, not a ferrari. It's flexible, however it has an operating range. Quit making up crap, you've said you don't want me to do anything a few posts ago, so whats your pain to gain? Your crap about the case and wiring is unfounded, and now your picking up tiny things. That foam was at the mount. You never made a HX bracket or a pump bracket. I made one or two msitakes, but I fixed them all. I'm done here.

[Planet]

lol bull at one or two mistakes. This thread is to make sure nobody else orders from you so they dont hafta put up with your and childish antics

[Planet]

Cascade still isnt holding 4ghz colder than -82C after 2 hours today. What happened to it holding -90C at 250 watts. Last time I calculated 4ghz on this cpu wasnt even 200watts. At this point I would like a partial refund seeing how the cascade isnt performing as it should as as you have told me it would. High side was at 275 PSI(was still rising till i killed the load) under full load after two minutes temps dropped to -79C. There is no way in flying hell you load tested this unit at -90C 250watts load for more than maybe 2 seconds. Did you even try to tune the unit?

Temps are now down to -73C with all 4 cores loaded through 06 cpu test.

[n00b 0f l337]

Pics please. Whats the first stage at. High sides way to high. Do you even have the watercooling setup? Are you again pushing air into the case without ventilation like you did at CES?

[Planet]

Umm case is totally open. Water cooling is setup and with no air bubbles and the rad is dissapating heat. First stage is at -35C load -37.5 idle with 2nd stage on. 1st stage alone gets to like -50C.

[n00b 0f l337]

And what is ambient.
Contact me and let's work this out, would be the first PM you ever send to me about this.
Also why not ice bath your probe while your at it. I do mine whenever I get probes to check em.