Rice, rice, baby - Japanese cars are more fun drive.

[vengance_01]

Honda makes great cars. Their engines are very good, reliable and get you from point A to point B. I drove a 2004 Corolla 4 banger for 5 years. Not a single engine problem. No major maintenance besides your normal wear and tare items. As for what fun is going to vary from person to person. For me I want a nice, efficient, car, but something with a bit of style and punch to have some fun. Hence I settled on my new Jetta. 2.5L engine, 5 cylinders, 170HP, 23-25 MPG in mixed city and highway( 70%, 30%) This thing was loaded, and the interior blew away most cars in its class. Simple yet tasteful. Not over flashy. Its all about how it makes you feel when you drive your car. For me I have fun when I drive me Jetta.

My vote as now Euro makers like Audi, VW, BMW, etc.

[twilyth]

Apologies to all once again for neglecting to include Euro options for Audi, BMW, Merc, etc. But look at it this way - I also failed to include those famous eastern block cars like the Trabant.



Ooooooo, seeeexxxxxxyyyyyyyy!!!!!!

[Decami]

A, if it's a honda doing wheelies, it's not a production vehicle, i've seen what yoru talking about. honda doesnt make a street car besides the s2000 that is rwd, and in order to do wheelies, you gotta have rwd.

i've seen the videos yoru talking about, they are tubular frame funny cars with plastic acura "bodies"

gomler, the lsx engines will rev to 7500 rpm all day with a simple tune.

and there is a fox body mustang in my town that revs to 9k, fast as hell too.

if i ever get to actually work on my car and build the engine, i plan to be revving it to 8k rpm with a kennebell.

wheelies is really nothing to chime about man, that is actually slowing down your line time in most cases, hence the reason drag cars use "wheelie" bars in the back. and you do know that 7500rpm rev is a joke to the import/euro world right? audi RS4 8250rpm redline, Mazda RX8 9000rpm redline, S2000 9000rpm redline, it goes on, this is all stock by the way.

[[XC] Lead Head]

wheelies is really nothing to chime about man, that is actually slowing down your line time in most cases, hence the reason drag cars use "wheelie" bars in the back. and you do know that 7500rpm rev is a joke to the import/euro world right? audi RS4 8250rpm redline, Mazda RX8 9000rpm redline, S2000 9000rpm redline, it goes on, this is all stock by the way.

You don't need high revs when all your power is down low Higher revs means higher stresses on the engine, faster wear, and more heat. I'll keep my low revs thanks.


Audi's R10 race car redlines very low for a car of its type, the torque and low end power of the diesel actually let them remove a gear from the gearbox, and make it a 5 speed.

[Zytek_Fan]

I'm a big B5 fan, I never liked the B6 shape (it looks good with S line etc but rubbish bubble without, B7 not bad, B8 is great!). So I'd take the 2.7TT anyday over the 4.2.


I'd take any ridiculously quick car on a weekend. Euro no doubt during the week. Once you drive one, you never want to go back to Jap or other stuff.

The B8 beckons for the 4.2
THe 2.7TT is a good engine though

[trance565]

wheelies is really nothing to chime about man, that is actually slowing down your line time in most cases, hence the reason drag cars use "wheelie" bars in the back. and you do know that 7500rpm rev is a joke to the import/euro world right? audi RS4 8250rpm redline, Mazda RX8 9000rpm redline, S2000 9000rpm redline, it goes on, this is all stock by the way.

like i stated before, 9k rpm on a 4 banger, and 9k rpm on a v8 are much different things. one takes alot mroe effort to achieve than the other. and like i also said, most v8's start to lose power once you get past 5.5k-6.5k rpm, so there is no point to keep going. and the gearing on the cars is much different as well, notice a honda takes 9k rpm to get to 40mph in first gear, and my mustang takes only 5800. if my mustang reved to 9k rpm i would be doing nearly 70 by the end of 1st, which is just rediculous.

also, the time it takes to rev my mustangs v8, i hit the limiter before i get to full throttle.

the integra i had, took a good 2 seconds after i was full throttle to hit the limiter.

you gotta understand basic mechanics, and i mean basic. with more moving objects, you dont want to move them at the same speed you would move half the amount of objects, as it's much more difficult to control and maintain.

besides, i get 2 cylinders firing at a time, not just one, so my 6k rpm, is alot like 12k rpm of your little 4 banger.

[bobbobson]

wheelies is really nothing to chime about man, that is actually slowing down your line time in most cases, hence the reason drag cars use "wheelie" bars in the back. and you do know that 7500rpm rev is a joke to the import/euro world right? audi RS4 8250rpm redline, Mazda RX8 9000rpm redline, S2000 9000rpm redline, it goes on, this is all stock by the way.

So ? my lawn mower revs higher. It has absolutely no Torque tho. Your RPM isn't going to move your car.

[[XC] Lead Head]

Horse power is RPMxTorque / 5252 . So your two choices to get more power is to increase revs and try to make the torque band hold out longer during the RPM range, or increase the amount of torque within your same RPMs.

Most V8s will hit peak torque around 3000-4000 RPMs, and from there torque will decrease, and will just rely on the increasing revs to build more horse power. But then there is a point where the torque just drops so much, that horsepower starts to decrease even though revs are going higher. You typically want to shift right when your engine hits peak horsepower.

Most modern V8s are tuned for very low torque bands. Fords 5.4 torque band starts around 1200 RPM with around 310 ft-lbs and ends around 3500-3700 or so with 360 ft-lbs

Dodge's 5.7 HEMI maintains torque for quite a bit longer, from 1200 RPM with around 300 ft-lbs to about 4600 RPM with around 370 ft-lbs. While it doesn't have that much more torque then the 5.4, it keeps the torque up longer in the RPM range, so the over all HP is higher.

Your typical 4 cylinder engine won't start even producing meaningful torque until 2700 RPM or so, since the torque comes on later, that means it can be maintained longer in the RPM range, so you get more HP in the end

Also like it was said, getting a large 5.6+ Liter V8 upto 7500 RPM is a lot different then your little 2 liter 4 banger. I believe the force on the engine internals quadruples every doubling of the RPM, or something along those lines.

[Decami]

You don't need high revs when all your power is down low Higher revs means higher stresses on the engine, faster wear, and more heat. I'll keep my low revs thanks.


Audi's R10 race car redlines very low for a car of its type, the torque and low end power of the diesel actually let them remove a gear from the gearbox, and make it a 5 speed.

what a bad comparison, you do realize the R10 is diesel right? Though upon its release it won at Sebring and won 24 hour Le-Mans, numbers arent everything, its how the car performs, that matters.

But you dont have to explain things to me, I prefer a nice, V8 over a 4 cyl, (that isnt american, by the way) and prefer AWD or RWD way before FWD. Just kind of annoys me how many people totally under estimate 4 cyl engines.

[trance565]

what a bad comparison, you do realize the R10 is diesel right? Though upon its release it won at Sebring and won 24 hour Le-Mans, numbers arent everything, its how the car performs, that matters.

But you dont have to explain things to me, I prefer a nice, V8 over a 4 cyl, (that isnt american, by the way) and prefer AWD or RWD way before FWD. Just kind of annoys me how many people totally under estimate 4 cyl engines.

how often do you see 4 bangers pushing 500+ whp? not very, and it's because it takes a LOT of boost and gas to get them there. and it's much cheaper to mod a v8 to 600+ than a 4 banger to 300+(with the exception of the scooby and mitsu)

[ZOMGVTEK]

how often do you see 4 bangers pushing 500+ whp? not very, and it's because it takes a LOT of boost and gas to get them there. and it's much cheaper to mod a v8 to 600+ than a 4 banger to 300+(with the exception of the scooby and mitsu)

500hp in a stripped hatch thats under 2,000 pounds is a whole lot faster than 600hp in a 3800 lb whatever.

[trance565]

500hp in a stripped hatch thats under 2,000 pounds is a whole lot faster than 600hp in a 3800 lb whatever.

3800lb? the new mustangs yes, lsx camaros are around 3400, my mustang with me in it is 3250, and 500hp in a v8 is faster than 500hp in a 4 banger, just an fyi, and if you cant guess why in a post or two, i'll tell you. and a stripped down hatch, is not something you wanna drive around in very often. although you can drive a 600+whp lsx or 4.6 daily at 15mpg, and have full interior, sounds system, and all the niceties of an actual car.


and like i said, when wast he last time you saw a 500hp hatch driving around? maybe 1 in your entire city. i think there might be 2 in all of houston with over 300hp. although i have seen plenty of 4 bangers in general with a good 350-400whp, they still lose to most lsx/4v 4.6 cars around here.

[[XC] Lead Head]

what a bad comparison, you do realize the R10 is diesel right? Though upon its release it won at Sebring and won 24 hour Le-Mans, numbers arent everything, its how the car performs, that matters.

But you dont have to explain things to me, I prefer a nice, V8 over a 4 cyl, (that isnt american, by the way) and prefer AWD or RWD way before FWD. Just kind of annoys me how many people totally under estimate 4 cyl engines.

Thats the point I was trying to make, it DOESN'T NEED to rev high in order to have power or be fast. How high you can rev really does not matter provided you have the torque to make up for the low revs, and thats exactly what V8s have over little itty bitty 4 cylinders.

Yes we know 4 cylinders can make a lot of power, but it takes quite a bit of work to do so, while I don't think a 2L 4 cylinder is going to handle 700 rwhp for very long.

I have nothing against 4 cylinder engines, I just do not like how they run. They just feel very crude and rough running, because they have no over lapping power strokes

500hp in a stripped hatch thats under 2,000 pounds is a whole lot faster than 600hp in a 3800 lb whatever.

Its quite easy to get a V8 car to 2000 lbs as well....

[Zytek_Fan]

500hp in a FWD drive isn't a good idea.
Let's torque steer off the onramp!


I vastly prefer AWD and RWD

[NickS]

Thats the point I was trying to make, it DOESN'T NEED to rev high in order to have power or be fast. How high you can rev really does not matter provided you have the torque to make up for the low revs, and thats exactly what V8s have over little itty bitty 4 cylinders.

Yes we know 4 cylinders can make a lot of power, but it takes quite a bit of work to do so, while I don't think a 2L 4 cylinder is going to handle 700 rwhp for very long.

I have nothing against 4 cylinder engines, I just do not like how they run. They just feel very crude and rough running, because they have no over lapping power strokes




Its quite easy to get a V8 car to 2000 lbs as well....

Very true - Foxbody mustangs, specifically the notchbacks, can be VERY VERY light (talking less than 2300lbs).

I agree with the 4 cylinder thing too, they do run a bit rough. You haven't seen rough till you're in a boxer 4 though, but they're a ball.

500hp in a FWD drive isn't a good idea.
Let's torque steer off the onramp!


I vastly prefer AWD and RWD

RWD > AWD > FWD, for racing basically. FWD you just understeer everywhere you don't want to be. AWD combines the understeer of FWD and sometimes the oversteer of RWD, but is basically the only platform that allows you to near WOT through a tight corner. AWD is probably overall the most "fun." RWD though, definitely the best.

[Zytek_Fan]

My preference for engines are:
Audi 2.3L T 5 cylinder (older models)
Audi 2.7TT V6
Audi 4.2L V8
BMW straight 6 in its various guises
BMW 4.0 V8
BMW 4.4 V8

[STEvil]

I like 6cyl+ motors for non detonation style combustion.

[[XC] 2long4u]

like i stated before, 9k rpm on a 4 banger, and 9k rpm on a v8 are much different things. one takes alot mroe effort to achieve than the other. and like i also said, most v8's start to lose power once you get past 5.5k-6.5k rpm, so there is no point to keep going. and the gearing on the cars is much different as well, notice a honda takes 9k rpm to get to 40mph in first gear, and my mustang takes only 5800. if my mustang reved to 9k rpm i would be doing nearly 70 by the end of 1st, which is just rediculous.

also, the time it takes to rev my mustangs v8, i hit the limiter before i get to full throttle.

the integra i had, took a good 2 seconds after i was full throttle to hit the limiter.

you gotta understand basic mechanics, and i mean basic. with more moving objects, you dont want to move them at the same speed you would move half the amount of objects, as it's much more difficult to control and maintain.

besides, i get 2 cylinders firing at a time, not just one, so my 6k rpm, is alot like 12k rpm of your little 4 banger.

V8's dont really lose power over 5.5k rpm because they can't, it is just they are tuned that way. All it takes for a V8 to rev high is a good balance the right cam and the right intake. Light weight valvetrain components don't hurt either.
I had a 96 Z28 that had 3.08 rear gears. At wot it would shift out of 2nd at 90mph. It ran 14second quarter mile times. If I put a different gear in it so I wasn't stuck in 2nd gear for almost the whole 1/4mile my times would have been better. It would shift into 3rd right before the speed traps. The car also didn't make any power under 3000rpm because of the intake design. From the opening in the plenum to intake valve was only 6". If I could have kept it over 3000rpm it would decrease 1/4 mile times also. To do that put different gears and a high stall torque converter in it.

[STEvil]

This is just pure V8 sex: http://videos.streetfire.net/video/T...2.htm?Ref=Blog

[[XC] 2long4u]

lol that first one was (Hit accelerator, Fill pants)

[GMX]

Very true - Foxbody mustangs, specifically the notchbacks, can be VERY VERY light (talking less than 2300lbs).

I agree with the 4 cylinder thing too, they do run a bit rough. You haven't seen rough till you're in a boxer 4 though, but they're a ball.



RWD > AWD > FWD, for racing basically. FWD you just understeer everywhere you don't want to be. AWD combines the understeer of FWD and sometimes the oversteer of RWD, but is basically the only platform that allows you to near WOT through a tight corner. AWD is probably overall the most "fun." RWD though, definitely the best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93EezFW1mAs
FWD isnt as bad as it sounds. This car was lapping almost 2secs quicker than the 996s/997s

RWD is outright most fun. AWD you hardly ever get sideways, its like superglue, it's only fun (more like amazing) how much speed you can take in a corner with such little effort.

[zakelwe]

Most fun in the title seems to have reduced down to which car, US or Japanese, can produce most horsepower. However that sort of fun tends to mean your fun car spends a lot of the time in the garage either being modified or then being rebuilt whilst you have "fun" counting of $20 dollar bills like they are going out of fashion.

Where is the fun in that?

Regards

Andy

[trance565]

Most fun in the title seems to have reduced down to which car, US or Japanese, can produce most horsepower. However that sort of fun tends to mean your fun car spends a lot of the time in the garage either being modified or then being rebuilt whilst you have "fun" counting of $20 dollar bills like they are going out of fashion.

Where is the fun in that?

Regards

Andy

i dont get it....

[trance565]

V8's dont really lose power over 5.5k rpm because they can't, it is just they are tuned that way. All it takes for a V8 to rev high is a good balance the right cam and the right intake. Light weight valvetrain components don't hurt either.
I had a 96 Z28 that had 3.08 rear gears. At wot it would shift out of 2nd at 90mph. It ran 14second quarter mile times. If I put a different gear in it so I wasn't stuck in 2nd gear for almost the whole 1/4mile my times would have been better. It would shift into 3rd right before the speed traps. The car also didn't make any power under 3000rpm because of the intake design. From the opening in the plenum to intake valve was only 6". If I could have kept it over 3000rpm it would decrease 1/4 mile times also. To do that put different gears and a high stall torque converter in it.

actually yes, they do lose power. to keep gaining power you would need bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump, fuel lines etc. and then after the extra rpm range that gives you, you gotta get higher octain fuel, as the way fuel detonates it will start to work against you, as it wont be able to keep up.

[kodiak kid]

V8's dont really lose power over 5.5k rpm because they can't, it is just they are tuned that way. All it takes for a V8 to rev high is a good balance the right cam and the right intake. Light weight valvetrain components don't hurt either.
I had a 96 Z28 that had 3.08 rear gears. At wot it would shift out of 2nd at 90mph. It ran 14second quarter mile times. If I put a different gear in it so I wasn't stuck in 2nd gear for almost the whole 1/4mile my times would have been better. It would shift into 3rd right before the speed traps. The car also didn't make any power under 3000rpm because of the intake design. From the opening in the plenum to intake valve was only 6". If I could have kept it over 3000rpm it would decrease 1/4 mile times also. To do that put different gears and a high stall torque converter in it.

AMEN! My old 4.6L Tbird was gutless below 3K. Ran a 14.48 w/ 3.08 gears and a factory convertor (1300ish stall). I got a 3500 stall converter and some 3.73s and was running 13.7s all day long.