Surprise! Koolance idle temp problems!

[cluelessguy]

Hi guys.

Complete water cooling rookie here. I just bought my first kit, Koolance PC3-725BK (PC3-700 series), set it up and my idle temps are currently 44-48 degrees C (as reported by BIOS), 30-34 degrees C (as reported by Koolance's temp sensor planted on edge of CPU waterblock).

I understand kits (especially Koolance ones) are frowned upon here but I kind of purchased it before coming across these forums.

Filtration did take longer than described in the manual with a huge section of the (10mm ID) tubing not filling up with coolant... almost as if the pump is too weak to fill up the tubes.

It's currently in operation now but since I'm a newbie I don't know how fast the coolant should be flowing in the tubes... seems pretty slow to me...

I would have thought you'd need the water shooting through those tubes FAST to ensure max transfer of heat.

If anyone can help, I'd appreciate it very much... I'm kind of desperate right now as I can't do anything with my system in fear it'll generate more heat than my kit can handle.

Let me know if you need me to somehow record a video clip of the water flowing.

Called up their tech support, heard some mumbling, two "please hold"s and a "you can click the request RMA button at the top of our site"...

P.S. Since I'm new, I've only chosen to install a CPU waterblock and drain valve to ease future changes. My setup:
Koolance PC3-700 Res -> Koolance CPU-340 Waterblock -> Koolance Drain Valve -> back to reservoir. All 10mm tubes.

[dnb#]

AAH YES! I looovveee these questions!answer to yours: Koolance.

or it could be your pump. can you show us some pics?

oh and for the record, we don't use koolance because it's restrictive as hell but mostly because of this kind of issues too: "Called up their tech support, heard some mumbling, two "please hold"s and a "you can click the request RMA button at the top of our site"...

[Navanod]

AAH YES! I looovveee these questions!answer to yours: Koolance.

or it could be your pump. can you show us some pics?

oh and for the record, we don't use koolance because it's restrictive as hell but mostly because of this kind of issues too: "Called up their tech support, heard some mumbling, two "please hold"s and a "you can click the request RMA button at the top of our site"...

I got a pretty good response from their tech support via email though...replied within a day and with a detailed attached drawing of what I had asked for

[MpG]

Koolance's 700 series of systems uses an old dual-pump setup which is a little... underpowered, compared to most modern WC pumps. That said, I used to use an Exos-2 system which uses the same internals, and it's not THAT bad. Mine was handling both a Q6600 @ 3.6 and an 8800 GTS 640 at 700/900, with fans at only about 1000-1100 rpm. So you shouldn't be having trouble with just a CPU.

Does the reservoir have enough fluid in it? I found that if it wasn't at least 2/3 full, the pumps would tend to grab some air bubbles, which makes the bleeding take a lot longer than it normally would. Regardless, as long as the system's bled, it's bled.

A picture of your tim spread would be good. Also nice to know would be your loads temps. Idle temps can be abnormally high, even on the best of systems, but load temps are a much more useful/consistent number. Run OCCT or something similar for half an hour and see what kind of temps you get back. Oh yeah, and what kind of processor do you have?

[mrlader]

What cpu and motherboard do you have? And at what vcore?

[brammers]

I have/had that setup (the wc parts are now in a box in the attic but I still use the case).

It did exactly the same thing to me - if you leave the fans on auto speed.

Try setting them to something like 5 or 6 manually and see how your temps do.

That dropped my idle temps by about 5C. Load temps still sucked. It's the pump I'm sure of it - the flow rate is dire at approx 0.5gpm. The "upgrade tank" puts a DDC3.2 pump in there instead which would help A LOT.

HTH
J

[iowamoe300]

Hi guys.

Complete water cooling rookie here. I just bought my first kit, Koolance PC3-725BK (PC3-700 series), set it up and my idle temps are currently 44-48 degrees C (as reported by BIOS), 30-34 degrees C (as reported by Koolance's temp sensor planted on edge of CPU waterblock).

I understand kits (especially Koolance ones) are frowned upon here but I kind of purchased it before coming across these forums.

Filtration did take longer than described in the manual with a huge section of the (10mm ID) tubing not filling up with coolant... almost as if the pump is too weak to fill up the tubes.

It's currently in operation now but since I'm a newbie I don't know how fast the coolant should be flowing in the tubes... seems pretty slow to me...

I would have thought you'd need the water shooting through those tubes FAST to ensure max transfer of heat.

If anyone can help, I'd appreciate it very much... I'm kind of desperate right now as I can't do anything with my system in fear it'll generate more heat than my kit can handle.

Let me know if you need me to somehow record a video clip of the water flowing.

Called up their tech support, heard some mumbling, two "please hold"s and a "you can click the request RMA button at the top of our site"...

P.S. Since I'm new, I've only chosen to install a CPU waterblock and drain valve to ease future changes. My setup:
Koolance PC3-700 Res -> Koolance CPU-340 Waterblock -> Koolance Drain Valve -> back to reservoir. All 10mm tubes.

Don't even pay attention to the Koolance sensor on the waterblock. All that is for is if the temp gets to a certain point, the unit will shut down the computer. I had the system that you have at one point, and I sent it back. As the other user stated, it's an older pump system, with a redundancy pump and it's not as good. I exchanged the one I had for the newer system with triple radiator, and the pump/res that fits in the drive bay. I think the pump in that one is a laing ddc pump. Tell me what is your ambient temp when recording these temps? What processors is it? What is the processor overlclocked to (if at all)? I have alot of experience with the cooling system you have, and I didn't have bad temps once I exchanged it for the better pump and triple radiator.

[[XC] NetburstXE]

I have/had that setup (the wc parts are now in a box in the attic but I still use the case).

It did exactly the same thing to me - if you leave the fans on auto speed.

Try setting them to something like 5 or 6 manually and see how your temps do.

That dropped my idle temps by about 5C. Load temps still sucked. It's the pump I'm sure of it - the flow rate is dire at approx 0.5gpm. The "upgrade tank" puts a DDC3.2 pump in there instead which would help A LOT.

HTH
J

.5GPM? Seriously? That sucks

[brammers]

Well, I'm working that one out as they say the upgrade tank delivers 1.5gpm and "triples the coolant flow over the standard pumps" (well, it used to say that a while ago, looks like the site got updated).

Going by the speed of the bubbles in a loop - I'd say that was accurate.

Linky to product if anyone's interested:
http://www.tekheads.co.uk/s/product?product=605849

J

[Sparky]

.5GPM? Seriously? That sucks

Not if you talk to that guy over on SLI zone

[DarthBeavis]

Not if you talk to that guy over on SLI zone

IF your water is a movin your rig is not a groovin

[Serra]

Definitely will need to know CPU / frequency. For example, if you were running a Q600 @ 7GHz, that would be a pretty low and amazing temp. A single-core celeron though... definitely way too much.

In all likelyhood the pump is going to be your primary bottleneck. I would suggest slowly replacing pieces of your koolance loop with custom parts until you finally hit "acceptable" temperatures.

[cluelessguy]

Thanks guys for all the replies. I weren't expecting so many responses so fast!

I took some pictures of the setup, recorded a bit of grainy video (320x240 @ 15fps Xvid):
http://www.airhostone.net/dump/cooling/

As you can see the reservoir is pretty full.. and there seems to be some condensation going on inside. I don't know if that's normal.

CPU: Intel QX9650 @ 3GHz
Mobo: ASUS Striker II Extreme

I haven't overclocked anything yet.. Believe or not but I've never overclocked my system before. I've decided to start with learning how to overclock my cheaper HTPC setup and once I've gotten the cooling working on my main system, I'll start OC'ing it.

I checked my room temp with the only temperature sensor I have (an unused Koolance one I've placed outside the case) and it appears to read 26 degrees C.

Idle - Fan: Auto (Low) - CPU: 45
Idle - Fan: Max - CPU: 43
Under Load - Fan: Auto (Low) - CPU: 56
Under Load - Fan: Max - CPU: 53

Sorry but 'under load' in those results above is based on a 3D game that's not TOO intensive. I played Half-Life TFC for a while (don't have Far Cry/Crysis or 3Dmark installed at present)...
I'm used a tool called speedfan to get my temp results.

If it's the pump I need to replace, I'm worried about how difficult it must be to replace it.

By the way, if it helps, I'm also using Fluid XP as my coolant.

Also, noticed this other thread: [url]http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2959896&postcount=2[/ul]

I wonder if it's true... if it is, it's possible the koolance temp sensor is correct and that I'm just worrying for no reason.

[MpG]

Is it even legal to own a QX9650 and not overclock it...? Hope you fix that in the future.

Fluid XP is thicker than regular water, so I'm not sure I like the idea of using it with that lower powered pump. Condensation in the reservoir isn't a problem, don't worry.

I was never able to get Speedfan to clearly give me temps with my own QX9650, and it looks like it's giving you weird numbers too. You should have four numbers, one for each core temperature. Grab THIS program to get a better load temperature reading. Set it to stress the CPU and it'll load up all four cores to 100%. The most recent version gives you individual core temps as well, and I've found its measurements to be spot-on with other reliable monitoring programs out there.

Edit: The video wouldn't play for me, but the pictures all look fine. Hope that temp sensor isn't underneath the waterblock, because that'll ruin your contact really quickly. That aside, still be nice to see underneath the waterblock, and see what the thermal compound spread looks like.

[iowamoe300]

Clulessguy, like one of the other posters said: turn your fans up. The auto setting on that Koolance unit wont move enough air! I always ran mine on 5, otherwise, temps went high. Turn it up to 5 or 6, and I guarantee you it will make a difference. If I were you, I would rma that thing back to Koolance, and get the system with the rp1000 pump/res combo. I used that system for a year, and it worked pretty good. I have since cannibalized part of the fan shroud and made my own using better componets. All the Koolance haters will tell you none of it is any good, but some folks just hate Koolance. It's a good system to start out with and learn!

[dnb#]

as far as I can see on the video, it has something to do with your flowspeed. It's poor thats for sure... And like the others said, you could maybe turn up the speed to 5or6 with the fans.

I'm qurious how this ends up.

[cluelessguy]

Is it even legal to own a QX9650 and not overclock it...? Hope you fix that in the future.

Fluid XP is thicker than regular water, so I'm not sure I like the idea of using it with that lower powered pump. Condensation in the reservoir isn't a problem, don't worry.

I was never able to get Speedfan to clearly give me temps with my own QX9650, and it looks like it's giving you weird numbers too. You should have four numbers, one for each core temperature. Grab THIS program to get a better load temperature reading.

Hehe. Is it safe to overclock when you believe the cooling can't even handle stock speed?

Would love to overclock once I find a solution to this cooling issue.

Did the test with that tool you recommended:
http://www.airhostone.net/dump/cooling/occt/

I think the test ended earlier than I expected with a 'CPU Too Hot' message.

As for Fluid XP, I regret going for that one... Should have just gone with plain distilled water.

Clulessguy, like one of the other posters said: turn your fans up. The auto setting on that Koolance unit wont move enough air! I always ran mine on 5, otherwise, temps went high. Turn it up to 5 or 6, and I guarantee you it will make a difference. If I were you, I would rma that thing back to Koolance, and get the system with the rp1000 pump/res combo. I used that system for a year, and it worked pretty good. I have since cannibalized part of the fan shroud and made my own using better componets. All the Koolance haters will tell you none of it is any good, but some folks just hate Koolance. It's a good system to start out with and learn!

Thanks for the suggestion however I've had my fan on 6 or 10 most of the time. I'd love to try an alternative product... I just wish there was some super-powerful pump I could replace my current one with. I understand there's an upgrade tank, but I suspect it's only a little more powerful.

I guess those whole "half the job's already done for you" thing kind of appealed to me when I went with this case.

as far as I can see on the video, it has something to do with your flowspeed. It's poor thats for sure... And like the others said, you could maybe turn up the speed to 5or6 with the fans.
I'm qurious how this ends up.

Thought it might...

Just wish I could connect up my tubes directly to a faucet and run cold water through the system. Hehe.

Edit: Is it too late for me to switch coolant to distilled water? How do I clean the tubes/waterblock up? Just drain then pour distilled water into reservoir to rinse it?

[iowamoe300]

Hehe. Is it safe to overclock when you believe the cooling can't even handle stock speed?

Would love to overclock once I find a solution to this cooling issue.

Did the test with that tool you recommended:
http://www.airhostone.net/dump/cooling/occt/

I think the test ended earlier than I expected with a 'CPU Too Hot' message.

As for Fluid XP, I regret going for that one... Should have just gone with plain distilled water.



Thanks for the suggestion however I've had my fan on 6 or 10 most of the time. I'd love to try an alternative product... I just wish there was some super-powerful pump I could replace my current one with. I understand there's an upgrade tank, but I suspect it's only a little more powerful.

I guess those whole "half the job's already done for you" thing kind of appealed to me when I went with this case.



Thought it might...

Just wish I could connect up my tubes directly to a faucet and run cold water through the system. Hehe.

Edit: Is it too late for me to switch coolant to distilled water? How do I clean the tubes/waterblock up? Just drain then pour distilled water into reservoir to rinse it?

If it's an all Koolance system, I wouldn't run distilled water in it. I'm not one of the almumiphobics, but you need to use something other than just distilled with that all aluminum system. When I had my all Koolance system, I always ran the Koolance fluid. When I upgraded part of the system, I went to the Feser coolant. I ran the Koolance system with a stock apogee gtx with the aluminum top for almost a year and the loop was pristine using Koolance fluid. I hate to think what it would have looked like with only distilled water without anti corrosion additives.

[initialised]

I found that Koolance kit is OK and I praise them for their early adoption of Al radiators. However, I found that it was better to use the Koolance blocks for the less intense components (NB, SB, HDD) and haven't used their kits or pumps.

Things you need to check before you go spending any more money:

1: Idle/Load CPU temp with stock cooler (the big Intel QX fan is possibly the best heat sink fan on the market, use that if you have it). How do these compare to your water cooled readings?

2: Is flow restricted by a kink or air pocket? Inspect the hoses and look for anywhere air could gather, CPU 300 can be bad for this.

3: Is your pump faulty? Test it in the sink, how long does it take to pump a gallon or a litre?

4: Reseat you CPU block, remember TIM is there to fill the voids in the CPU and heat sink surfaces, not an extra layer, use as little as possible.

5: Update your BIOS. This can improve the calibration of the CPU BIOS reading to the actual core temperature as read by OCCT, Real Temp, Core Temp, SpeedFan, MBM etc...

A Water Cooling loop is limited by one of two things, the amount of heat that your radiator can dump into the air and the amount of heat your block(s) can dump into the water. With a double radiator I very much doubt that your system is radiator limited (minimal effect on load temps by increasing airflow). In which case you must be block heat transfer limited. To alleviate this you can either increase water flow (change pump) or improve block heat transfer by changing the block.

[MpG]

Yeah, those temp graphs are WAY too hot for stock speed. Yes, you're getting below optimal flowrates, but that doesn't even begin to explain those kind of temps.

Again, I used to run an Exos-2 setup (same pump/rad/fans), with two blocks in the system. And even at 3.6 GHz/1.425 Vcore, my Q6600 temps peaked at about 63-64 degrees under OCCT, with the fans set at five. Which is why I'm almost positive that you've got a CPU --> waterblock heat transfer problem.

So... not to beat the topic to death, but the number one suspect in such a case is the thermal compound.

I'd just swap over to some Koolance fluid next chance you get. It isn't the best, but it isn't the worst either, and shouldn't give you any problems.

[dinos22]

Not if you talk to that guy over on SLI zone

OMG there are some really funny guys from that forum

what was that other nvidia fanboy that was polluting this forum
it was very entertaining though

[Waterlogged]

I found that Koolance kit is OK and I praise them for their early adoption of Al radiators. However, I found that it was better to use the Koolance blocks for the less intense components (NB, SB, HDD) and haven't used their kits or pumps.

Things you need to check before you go spending any more money:

1: Idle/Load CPU temp with stock cooler (the big Intel QX fan is possibly the best heat sink fan on the market, use that if you have it). How do these compare to your water cooled readings?

2: Is flow restricted by a kink or air pocket? Inspect the hoses and look for anywhere air could gather, CPU 300 can be bad for this.

3: Is your pump faulty? Test it in the sink, how long does it take to pump a gallon or a litre?

4: Reseat you CPU block, remember TIM is there to fill the voids in the CPU and heat sink surfaces, not an extra layer, use as little as possible.

5: Update your BIOS. This can improve the calibration of the CPU BIOS reading to the actual core temperature as read by OCCT, Real Temp, Core Temp, SpeedFan, MBM etc...

A Water Cooling loop is limited by one of two things, the amount of heat that your radiator can dump into the air and the amount of heat your block(s) can dump into the water. With a double radiator I very much doubt that your system is radiator limited (minimal effect on load temps by increasing airflow). In which case you must be block heat transfer limited. To alleviate this you can either increase water flow (change pump) or improve block heat transfer by changing the block.

Your a funny funny guy, you should do stand up comedy.

[NaeKuh]

Whats shown is probably the only parts i'll use from koolance, the top bridge and compression fittings . Well i do want to try out there chipset block.

[cluelessguy]

Yeah, those temp graphs are WAY too hot for stock speed. Yes, you're getting below optimal flowrates, but that doesn't even begin to explain those kind of temps.

Again, I used to run an Exos-2 setup (same pump/rad/fans), with two blocks in the system. And even at 3.6 GHz/1.425 Vcore, my Q6600 temps peaked at about 63-64 degrees under OCCT, with the fans set at five. Which is why I'm almost positive that you've got a CPU --> waterblock heat transfer problem.

So... not to beat the topic to death, but the number one suspect in such a case is the thermal compound.

I'd just swap over to some Koolance fluid next chance you get. It isn't the best, but it isn't the worst either, and shouldn't give you any problems.

The thermal compound I used: Zalman ZM-STG1. Comes with a thin brush just like nail polish so I could spread it as easily/evenly as possible.

If you reckon it's the CPU block, I'll definitely try re-installing it and taking a photo too.

One other thing I weren't too sure about when installing that waterblock is that in the manual it says not to tighten the screws too tight otherwise it may damage my cpu/mobo so I was reluctant to tighten it as much as it would allow. Just below the screws are springs pressing hard against the block, which are the reason I didn't tighten further. Maybe I should this time?

As for the coolant, I'd love to switch but the reason I didn't go with Koolance's own coolant is that the only available that was available very comfortably mentioned its (high?) electrical conductivity...! I mean, most of the other coolants I was looking at were boasting their low-conductivity whereas Koolance was like, "hey, how ya doin. get this stuff on your system and you die!!". Heh.

Still have to drain and rinse out the tubes/blocks... what do you reckon I should use to do this? Plain distilled water or with the next coolant I'm going to use (probably Koolance's own low-conductivity one if I can get my hands on it)...?

iowamoe300, most of the parts I bought are all brass or nickel-plated brass except the drain-valve which I'm hoping to change to brass soon... The hard drive blocks I want to get if I sort out this problem are stainless steel. Not sure about what the pre-installed part (pump/res/radiator) unit is made of though. Do you reckon I should still avoid distilled water?

Thanks for all the replies folks, you're all aces in my book.

[MpG]

You're covering the entire CPU with thermal compound before putting the block on? That makes me nervous already. Check THIS out for a good starting point for applying thermal compound. Bottom line, for most thermal compounds, use very little, and let the heatsink/waterblock do the spreading for you.

You need some pressure for the waterblock to work right. You've got a pretty solid backplate with that block, so you don't have to fear warping the motherboard unless you REALLY overdo it (i.e, tighten the screws until the springs are fully compressed, and then keep tightening some more).

As for non-conducting fluid... there are a lot of reasons people b1tch at Koolance, but leaking isn't one of them. Put the stuff together, tighten the compression fittings/clamps, run the pump alone for a day or two to leak-test, and you really don't need to loose any sleep over it. But if it really makes you feel better, go ahead and grab some for your system. Just remember to change it out every few months, because it doesn't stay non-conductive forever.