XS Xclusive: Xtreme Mod in Progress: Auzen X-Meridian Total Recap:

[Richard Dower]

Zorlac....i also just bought a brand new Prelude and was wondering what things on the PCB can be upgraded?

Is the OPA637 better then the one supplied as standard, how easy was it to replace the OpAmp?

And what model did you get from the Auzen website?

[NapalmV5]

Oh god... how many slots does that beast take up now?

a few.. i had to mod the bottom of the cm 830 to get it in.. its just temporary though.. once im done ill place the caps better so it doesnt take half the case

That rules! I have a Prelude and the only thing I have done to it is replaced the OPAMP with one that Auzen now sells (Texas Instrument's OPA637). Are the Prelude caps cheap? I kind of assumed that they would have high quality caps on their cards...


Also, are you going to do the ERS paper mod? If so, can you please let me know what you use for insulating material? The mod is referenced on Headfi:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/ho...no-56k-226975/

Zorlac....i also just bought a brand new Prelude and was wondering what things on the PCB can be upgraded?

Is the OPA637 better then the one supplied as standard, how easy was it to replace the OpAmp?

And what model did you get from the Auzen website?

my prelude @ 2x 1500uf BG NX power E-capped + OPA637

OscilloMeter


the caps on the prelude just as on the xmeridian are fine for a mass produced product.. minimum requirement.. except for the power/filter cap.. the 470uf cap to be honest its a total joke.. far from adequate.. maybe just me..

the supplied LM4562 on the prelude is a bit bright but it depends on your sound system aswell.. to me the 637 is better

as for ers paper.. im not using any.. no need so far

prelude + OPA637 + 1x or 2x 1500uf blackgate NX = helluva prelude

[Zorlac]

I got the "OPA 637AU + Adaptor", but apparently the "OPA 637SM + Adaptor" will be technically better when they release it because it has better EMI/RFI shielding or something.

Hey Napalm, do you have a schematic or a how-to guide for that Prelude cap mod? I would love to do that to mine!

I will look on headfi to get some ideas on where to buy those caps.

[sdkevin]

do you mind to take some pictures of your opamp collection? I know you had a few opamps with different adapters, is there any differences when you're using 2 mono to DIP adapter and 2 SOIC to DIP adapter?

[NapalmV5]

637AU is alright for prelude but 637SM is badly needed for xmeridian

unfortunately the 637SM+adaptor will be @ 150$+ maybe ~200$


Z-cap serialled


E-cap serialled


T-cap serialled 3x 470uf BG N on claro+

it would look like a T but the negative pad is gone thus..


ill have a 3x 1500uf BG NX T-cap on the xmeridian next week.. ive ran out of caps.. lol

http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/bl...e/techEcap.htm

theres no one way of doing it..
guide? i dont do guides..
why base mods on mine when better can be achieved..


the best opamps are single/mono.. pdip or soic thats just the package

when ill gather all ofem ill have a pic of the opamp collection.. though nothing special

[begrip]

haha cool , maybe i try this one!

[Zorlac]

I read that article about super e-caps and I am now more clueless than when I started LOL!

Any other recommendations for learning more about this stuff? I found where to buy some BlackGate caps. I would like to mod the 3 that you did on the Prelude. Looks like you used the Z-cap for one. I know I could do this myself, but I am the type that likes to edumacate myself first to boost my confidence level...heh

[NapalmV5]

lol first time i saw a "super e-cap"

@ http://audiodiy.com/bgcapitme.htm

if u go all the way down ull see this power tank


thats how i edumacated

there is no one way of placing the caps on..



the other cap on the prelude was a 470uf 16V BG N from the 180uf 16V stock

i cant comment on that recap since its the only one i didnt thoroughly tested

up to u if u want to.. but id say start off with the power/filter cap

then again u can start with the 180uf cap and see/hear what that recap offers

sorry, nothing concrete on that cap

i wanted to recap the 470uf BG N with a 1500uf BG NX but i ran out of caps

[Zorlac]

So what is your goal when looking for caps? I take it you are looking for the Microfarad (uF) rating, ESR, ripple, etc.

I am assuming low ESR and high ripple are good. Are you also looking for extremely high uF ratings?

Was your Z-cap on the Prelude a cheaper (DIY) version of the power tank?


Why not use polymer (solid) caps? (or would you if BlackGates were not around?)

EDIT: Looks like Polymer (solid) caps are usually around half of the uF of the same liquid cap. So I am guessing you are doubling the uF and trying to find the closest match. I read a little on badcaps.net. Still trying to understand the whole e-cap/z-cap thing you did. I would think anyone here could eventually figure out what caps they need and de-solder/re-cap the ones they want, but the z-cap thing is really confusing.

[NapalmV5]

# 1 goal: highest quality caps

low ESR + low ripple are good

im certainly eying the 10000uF BG FK cap but at almost 200$.. too steep

but if ill get it ill post a pic.. then again i can make a T-cap 3x 2200uf BG NX

polymer solid caps, just because its polymer/solid doesnt mean nothings else is better

since the black gates are outta production i wanted to get my hands on.. till theyre still available

i would like to try some phillips Q LL caps.. only found in uk but i cant find any in the states.. will have to look harder

there you go.. reason why im not that crazy about solid polymer

sorry for the confusion, i serialled my E/Z caps the power tank (super E-cap) is paralleled

definitely, if you guys want to mod.. use whatever brand/quality/kind/uF/volts/etc caps you guys see fit

[Zorlac]

Sorry for all the questions, but I think I get it now...

On the Prelude, you recapped the following:

Capacitor C102
--------------
16V 470uF --> x2 Black Gate N 16V 470uF (used Z-cap which gives you 940uF)

Capacitor C180
---------------
16V 180uF --> x1 Black Gate N 16V 470uF

[NapalmV5]

no, ive recapped..

16V 470uF --> x2 BG NX 10V 1500uF
16V 180uF --> x1 BG N 16V 470uF

though both the NX 1500 and N 470 got the same dimension: 16mmx24mm


lol i hope no one attempts any of the mods based on mine..

but if any of you do, please know the risk/s involved and attempt at your own risk


edit
why i hope no one attempts any of the mods based on mine?
heres why.. my current prelude
left: 16V 470uf stock @ 6.3V 2200uf BG NX
right: 16V 180uf stock @ 6.3V 470uf BG NX


theres no one way of doing it.. like i said.. use whatever caps you guys see fit

[NapalmV5]

answering to Qs @ pm

you dont have to keep voltage the same but that depends a lot on the quality of the cap

you wouldnt want to recap to a low volt low quality cap

i asked @ avs about the 6.3V black gates caps if i could use on the xmeridian but got no response so i just went for it.. didnt even measure volts @ caps

but i did test the caps on the mx300

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...5&postcount=20

everything ive done on the xm is being done first on the mx300 or the other sound cards i got.. though from time to time i do go out on a limb or two on the xm

you dont have to double capacitance from solid to nonsolid because its nonsolid

of course you can also just replace with same V & uF solid/nonsolid

to be 100% sure of what you need/want to recap.. simply measure the volts going through the caps

the 180uf to 470uf cap on the prelude ill recap to 1500uf and see what that offers

[Zorlac]

Hopefully these are my final questions before I try this myself

1. How does this look for new caps?

Capacitor C102
--------------
Solid 16V 470uF ??? stock --> Non-solid Black Gate NX 25V 1000uF upgrade

Capacitor C180
---------------
Solid 16V 180uF Sanyo OS-CON SVP stock --> Non-solid Black Gate NX 25V 1000uF upgrade

Badcaps.net mentions that you dont want to use a lower voltage than stock in general. So a higher voltage is okay. Same with uF. Higher uF is okay, but you should not go over board in general. Now for audio, maybe a really high uF is good..., but I am still learning.

2. Any other recommendations where to buy Black Gates? I found some here:
http://www.soniccraft.com/black_gate_capacitors.htm

Not sure I like the idea of buying via email. Would like to find a site with a secure order form.

3. Any tips on how to remove the stock caps? I cant even tell where the solder points are on the reverse side of the PCB on the Prelude. I sure dont want to mess up any traces or the PCB itself. How about tips to installing the new caps? Do you recommend bending them and hot gluing to the card?

4. Can you tell me what each of the two caps are for on the Prelude that you replaced? (Capacitor C102 & C180 as marked on the PCB)

[NapalmV5]

1. if thats how you see it fit.. okay.. the 25V 1000uf cap would offer almost the same (small increment) capacitance vs the 16V 470uF stock, so thats very safe regarding volts and higher uF


if id follow what badcaps.net/others say about caps than recapping my xm/all my other sound cards should be the last thing on my mind

lower voltage/higher uF is okay if you know how/what youre doing


X uF divided by Y volts times Z voltage = actual capacitance

where: X=cap uF Y=cap volts Z=onboard voltage

thats how i select caps


2. the same place i bought the bgs from

if anyone knows any other place in the us that sells bgs, please post


3. goodness.. if id tell you guys how to remove the caps youd end up with damaged cards.. though ive hinted earlier in the thread

the prelude is not through-hole cap/pcb.. so through-hole caps are soldered onto the surface pads

i almost lost the + pad on my prelude, pads are easily gone


4. C102 C180 are power filter caps.. but please dont take it from me.. get 100% accurate info on that


Zorlac, please do not attempt any or base mods on mine, have it done pro

just wait a bit.. there will be prelude mods posted all over by more knowledgeble peeps unlike me.. i just got into recapping recently and im still learning myself

[cadaveca]

If you are jsut learning, I hope you are working for an audio card OEM...PLS PLS PLS says you are...


Anyway, I said this earlier, I'll say it again, you've done a fantastic job. the numbers your modded cards produce are beyond comprehensible limits...

[rcofell]

X uF divided by Y volts times Z voltage = actual capacitance

where: X=cap uF Y=cap volts Z=onboard voltage

thats how i select caps

I'm kinda curious where you came up with that, since by cap volts I assume you mean its maximum rating. Whereas the onboard voltage being the power lines nominal value... Granted the act of keeping further away from the maximum rating would probably yield a capacitance that's more in line with the given value; it's amazing to see how much components skew from their ideal linear behavior.

Capacitance is capacitance(governing I=C*dV/dt), except for the parasitic effects ever present in the real world that cause ESR and ESL, which are models used to explain the difference in frequency response from the ideal in a more linear and understandable fashion. Of course it just so happens the dielectric used is the major factor in the ESR and ESL, which is where the most benefit would come from.

Either way, the only thing that matters is the output sounding good
As long as you're modifying only the power caps there shouldn't be too much of a problem, as you shouldn't be messing up any signal filtering that depends directly on the capacitance.

Ack, I thought I was done thinking about capacitors in depth after my circuits courses, but now I have some strange urge to actually understand them after knowing more pieces to the puzzle.... http://wiki.xtronics.com/index.php/Capacitors_and_ESR has some good notes on the ESR subject (it also has a good disclaimer on the top ). Oh how e^(j*theta) = cos(theta) + j*sin(theta) has changed my life... perhaps for the worse? *maniacle laughter*

[kiwi]

amazing

[MutantToad]

I'm surprised it hasn't been brought up yet, but what speakers do you use with that beast?

Surely, it deserves far more than some silly Logitech pair...

I'm getting into the DIY audio thing myself; I'm looking into building a pair of speakers for myself as a summer project after school ends this year.

I've always been quite intimidated by the electronics part, though. Threads like these are wonderful learning tools.

Some questions that I have:

What exactly is the difference between an electrolytic and a film capacitor? WeStSiDePLaYa said something about the films being far superior earlier in the thread, but their microfarad ratings seem to be far lower...

Are the types of caps you choose based on space on the card? e.g. if you had an unlimited budget/availability of those huge caps you use, and you were able to put them on each solder point on the board, would you? Or is there some obscure (to me, at least) methodology to selecting and placing them?

Thanks if you take the time to read through my questions...as a high school freshman whose only audiophile assets are a pair of (over)sensitive ears who is looking to get the money for a decent audio setup, this kind of stuff is invaluable. =)

[cadaveca]

Film caps provide better resonance for audio...but it truly depends on the cap.

Cap usage is based on what the circuit requires. There is a formula, but it can easily be modified to match usage, based on the components used. The cap could be a supply-filter, to lower voltage fluctuations, on either input or output, so each kinda needs to be dealt with differently.

[NapalmV5]

If you are jsut learning, I hope you are working for an audio card OEM...PLS PLS PLS says you are...


Anyway, I said this earlier, I'll say it again, you've done a fantastic job. the numbers your modded cards produce are beyond comprehensible limits...

thanks

no, im not working for an audio oem

I'm kinda curious where you came up with that, since by cap volts I assume you mean its maximum rating. Whereas the onboard voltage being the power lines nominal value... Granted the act of keeping further away from the maximum rating would probably yield a capacitance that's more in line with the given value; it's amazing to see how much components skew from their ideal linear behavior.

Capacitance is capacitance(governing I=C*dV/dt), except for the parasitic effects ever present in the real world that cause ESR and ESL, which are models used to explain the difference in frequency response from the ideal in a more linear and understandable fashion. Of course it just so happens the dielectric used is the major factor in the ESR and ESL, which is where the most benefit would come from.

Either way, the only thing that matters is the output sounding good
As long as you're modifying only the power caps there shouldn't be too much of a problem, as you shouldn't be messing up any signal filtering that depends directly on the capacitance.

Ack, I thought I was done thinking about capacitors in depth after my circuits courses, but now I have some strange urge to actually understand them after knowing more pieces to the puzzle.... http://wiki.xtronics.com/index.php/Capacitors_and_ESR has some good notes on the ESR subject (it also has a good disclaimer on the top ). Oh how e^(j*theta) = cos(theta) + j*sin(theta) has changed my life... perhaps for the worse? *maniacle laughter*

just simple math..

5V through a 25V 1000uf cap = 200uf.. only @ 25V = 1000uf

amazing

megan fox: amazing

I'm surprised it hasn't been brought up yet, but what speakers do you use with that beast?

Surely, it deserves far more than some silly Logitech pair...

I'm getting into the DIY audio thing myself; I'm looking into building a pair of speakers for myself as a summer project after school ends this year.

I've always been quite intimidated by the electronics part, though. Threads like these are wonderful learning tools.

Some questions that I have:

What exactly is the difference between an electrolytic and a film capacitor? WeStSiDePLaYa said something about the films being far superior earlier in the thread, but their microfarad ratings seem to be far lower...

Are the types of caps you choose based on space on the card? e.g. if you had an unlimited budget/availability of those huge caps you use, and you were able to put them on each solder point on the board, would you? Or is there some obscure (to me, at least) methodology to selecting and placing them?

Thanks if you take the time to read through my questions...as a high school freshman whose only audiophile assets are a pair of (over)sensitive ears who is looking to get the money for a decent audio setup, this kind of stuff is invaluable. =)

as for speakers.. nothing special

5.1 composed of the following,

10x 1" tweeters
16x 5.25" woofers
7x powered subwoofers:
1 front left
1 center
1 front right
1 rear left
1 rear right
2 main

how it sounds? explosive! lol


i use stock x 2.2/3.3/4.7/10 = recap

yeh space/volts/dimension its all entered into the equation aswell

placing the caps.. the best way that the caps can be placed with the space available



since the xm is resting waiting for a 2nd recap ive been messing with the mx300

advanced MX300 recap

2x 2200uf BG NX 6.3V @ 12V
2x 470uf BG N 16V @ 12V
11x 220uf BG NX 6.3V @ 5V and lower

this is a before pic of the mx300 except for the 470uf BG cap

stock: 470uf 16V nichicon 13x 10uf 16V

[benniebeeker]

i have no idea what this means, but here are my results... lol

i have the auzentech mystiq 7.1...

[NapalmV5]

thanks for posting results

[benniebeeker]

thanks for posting results

do you need anything else for comparison???

[MutantToad]

Huh.

With the formula that you provided, would it even be possible to use film caps?

All of them seem to have a voltage rating of 100 or (much) higher...

Unless, of course, there's something I'm missing...