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Thread: Real Temp - New temp program for Intel Core processors

  1. #3201
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielniel View Post
    sorry but tried tis program and i thik this may wrong its imposible to me to be 7 degrees, C with and ambient temperature of 19, (i'm watercooled but i think it is not as it shows)
    The program is only as good (or bad) as your sensors, just like all the others Provide some information as unclewebb said.

  2. #3202
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    Its been a while since I posted, glad to see you are still refining and tweaking this program. Hats off to you Unclewebb for all the hard work you have done. I just upgraded from RT 2.7 to 3.0 last night, recalibrated and used your new cooldown test. I have been reading all the recent post in this thread and didnt realize that you can have a different tJmax on each core. I have my tjmax set at 95 on all 4 cores, which is what I thought it was on the q6600. I believe that I have done my calibration correctly, but under load cores 0 and 1 read 4-5 C higher than cores 2 and 3. Is this a case of adjusting tJmax for 2 of the cores? And which two cores would it be?

    [IMG][/IMG]


    Here is load pic

    Last edited by Nevrsadie; 02-09-2009 at 07:32 AM.

  3. #3203
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    UncleWebb, are Atom processors supported? I just ordered Aspire One and i'm wondering if i could use RealTemp on it to monitor CPU temperature.
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  4. #3204
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    Hi RejZoR. Long time no see around here.

    The Atom is supported. There are a couple of different Atom models including some with hyper threading but I believe that RealTemp can handle all of them correctly now.

    There is one bug / incompatibility that I know of but I'm not sure how many or what model of Atom that this bug effects. The Load meter doesn't work at all and only reports zero percent, all the time. The Load meter depends on some internal timers in the Core processors so my best guess is that maybe the Atom doesn't have these timers available. Let me know what you find or if there are any other Atom owners can you post a screen shot of this. The Intel documentation says this should work but one Atom user had issues.

    Nevrsadie: Originally RealTemp was based on my IR temperature measurements of the heat spreader (IHS) which covers the cores. rge's testing has shown me that the actual core temperature is likely about 5C higher than the IHS temperature. That's why the default TJMax has been bumped up to 100C for the Q6600 G0.

    Intel admits that TJMax is not a perfectly fixed number. They have what they call a TJ Target value and then actual TJ Max is somewhere around there or slightly higher. My theory is that there seems to be a lot of processors where TJMax is not consistent from core to core. It's very easy to see this on the 45nm Quad chips where 4 cores can be all over the place. With the 65nm Quads, I have seen a lot of screen shots where at higher temperatures running Prime95 Small FFTs, core 2 and core 3 will report exactly 5C less than core 0 and core 1. The only explanation I can come up with is that actual TJMax is 5C higher on those two cores.

    That's how I have my Q6600 G0 set up. TJMax = 100, 100, 105, 105 and then I use idle calibration factors to equalize the temperatures at idle. Doing this gives me 4 cores that track each other very well from idle to TJMax.

    When you have 4 cores covered by the same heatsink, all running the exact same consistent load, I think the core temperatures should be pretty consistent across all 4 cores.

    It's possible that my theory is out to lunch. Maybe in the Quad design at full Prime load, core 2 and core 3 are getting less voltage and creating less heat because of internal vdroop or something like that. Maybe the IHS makes better contact with core 2 and core 3 so they can transfer heat better and run cooler. You might be able to explain a Q6600 with those two theories but there seems to be 45nm Quads that are more like TJMax = 100, 105, 100, 105 or even 110 which can't be explained by voltage or IHS issues.

    All I can say is keep an open mind and give my way a try and see how it looks from idle to full load. Now that Intel has confirmed that TJMax is not fixed, I don't feel so bad using different TJMax values on different cores.

    The Coolest has been adding lots of useful features to Core Temp lately including Low/High temp reporting, MiniMode, the ability to offset individual cores and some thermal shutdown options.

    http://www.xtremesystems.org/FORUMS/...93#post3636493

    I'm a little biased about what MiniMode I like better but it's worth a look. Competition is good for both programs. With RealTemp you can grab on to the edge of the window frame when in MiniMode and drag it up or down to have a look in there. Double right click to check out Anchor Mode and hold down the shift key when you double right click to set your own Anchor position.

    Last edited by unclewebb; 02-09-2009 at 12:26 PM.

  5. #3205
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    I tried 100 100 105 105 and it gave me high temps at idle. My room temp is 22.5 and idle temps where about 12C higher.



    I then used 95 95 100 100 and it worked out almost perfect. I had to adjust core 2 and thats it.



    I went ahead and tried your suggestion of 100 100 105 105 and calibrated from there.

    The weird thing is after calibrating, then overclocking, my full load temps are still off by 5C between cores 0,1 and 2,3.

    Last edited by Nevrsadie; 02-09-2009 at 01:24 PM.

  6. #3206
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    Yeah, it has been a while I'm kinda busy lately, but i'm also lazy and i usually circle around forums. I just moved like 12 of those that i rarely visit to another bookmarks folder.
    I think i still have over 20 of them left in the "active" folder. I'll check it out when i get my Aspire One to see if RealTemp works fine with it.
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  7. #3207
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    Nevrsadie: Did you have your case open when you ran it at low voltage. The reason I ask is because your minimum temperatures are showing up as 30, 30, 27, 30 in your screen shot with TJMax set to 100, 100, 105, 105. The 30C numbers in a 22.5C room seems about right to me. I'd use my TJMax values and then you'd only have to bump up core 2 a little bit with some idle calibration correction.

    My Quad is similar that when I run Prime95 for a few minutes, there is still a difference in temps. Not as big a difference as what you're seeing. As I run Prime95 small FFTs longer, core 2 and core 3 start to catch up. It will forever be a mystery what is really going on here. I'll go run some Prime and post a screen shot or two so you'll have something to compare to.

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    Case open, matter of fact I just used some canned air to spring clean my HSF and case fans.

  9. #3209
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    Here's how my Q6600 looks at idle using split TJMax and some idle calibrations factors to keep things balanced at idle.



    After a couple of minutes of Prime with my Tuniq fan on low, there is a 3C difference between the two sets of cores.
    I'm using 1.384 volts to create some heat and keep it stable. My Q6600 is no prize winner.



    I turned up the CPU fan to its highest setting and a couple of minutes later, all 4 cores were closer together.



    A half hour later, they were about equal across all 4 cores.



    I turned the fan back down and a few minutes later, there was a difference again.



    Maybe this proves that some of the difference is caused by cooling efficiency and heatsink design. I'm not smart enough to understand heat pipe design.

    Previously I turned my computer upside down to see if the weight of a large air cooler was causing some of the difference but that didn't seem to change anything. I've also laid my computer flat on the ground, case open and there is still some temperature data that is hard to explain. The only thing that covers all of what I've seen is s.h.i.t happens. Sorry about all the white space. Vista Paint sucks when you're used to using Photoshop.

  10. #3210
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    Unclewebb, if you're using Alt+Print Screen, click Image -> Crop after pasting into Paint. One of the few Paint changes from XP to Vista, but one of the most useful.

  11. #3211
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    I used ALT+PRINT SCREEN but didn't notice that with Paint I also need to do a crop until after I uploaded them all so I said, it's good enough. With Photoshop you just Paste and save and you're done. Paint in Windows 7 is finally looking a little more modern.

    I'm on a spare hard drive at the moment trying to come up with a fix for darkzone. I re-wrote a chunk of RealTemp and have switched to a newer compiler. It's almost ready for him to do another test. If 3.00 is working fine for you then there probably won't be much reason to download the next beta when it comes out.

  12. #3212
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    Install Paint.net if you want a good and free Paint replacement.

  13. #3213
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    What is Paint? IrfanView FTW.
    If it ain't broke... fix it until it is.

  14. #3214
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    IrfanView is mostly an image viewer, Paint.NET is a lite version of Photoshop.
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  15. #3215
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    hi Uncle, so after the release of the 3.00 your developing is dead? :p
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  16. #3216
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    Never. As long as he can use his hands and eyes he will continue to develop and polish RealTemp.
    If it ain't broke... fix it until it is.

  17. #3217
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    KURTZ: It's tough to walk away from an obsession.

    I've been working on coming up with a fix for darkzone who has issues while running RealTemp on Windows Server 2008. I've found a few bugs that might cause a problem so I should be releasing a beta version shortly for anyone that is having issues. I haven't heard of too many problems so far so I'm assuming that RealTemp 3.00 isn't too bad for most users.

    I might write a side program with graphing capabilities so it will be easier to see the slope of your temperature curves which will make playing around with calibration options (idle and TJMax) easier to visually see the effects of. As burebista says, there's always something I can think of.

    Edit: I finally got confirmation that the Skull INI file option can be used to read both CPUs in a Skulltrail system:



    To get this to work you need to run two instances of RealTemp from two separate directories.

    Add to the RealTemp.ini file:

    Skull=2

    to read your second CPU and use

    Skull=1

    or don't use any option and it will read the temperature data from your first CPU.

    I think I need to add some code to prevent people with only 1 CPU from using the Skull= option.

    Maybe an 8 core version of RealTemp has just moved up on the things to do list.
    Can you imagine the size of the Settings window then?
    Last edited by unclewebb; 02-10-2009 at 12:38 PM.

  18. #3218
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclewebb View Post
    [...]
    Can you imagine the size of the Settings window then?
    Oh, yeah, the bigger the better. Can you make that window in full HD resolution?
    Better to fight for something than live for nothing
    US General George Patton

  19. #3219
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    burebista had a question for me. He is seeing some inconsistent results when comparing the RivaTuner built in load meter to what the RealTemp plug-in is saying during gaming.

    The RealTemp Load meter is based on using internal timers within the CPU and I think that it is a little different than how traditional load levels are calculated.

    I'm not sure what method is more accurate but the RealTemp Load meter seems to be accurately displaying the Load on my Q6600.
    On a mobile processor with individual cores entering deeper C3/C4 sleep states, this method might not be accurate. I haven't tested this yet.

    On my Q6600, I ran a Prime95 Small FFTs test and increased the load from idle to 1 thread, 2 threads, 3 threads, 4 threads and then back to idle.
    Here's how the log file looks. For this CPU, the load looks like it is being correctly reported. Task Manager will show the load bouncing around from core to core but the average reported load is as expected.

    Code:
      DATE     TIME   C0 C1 C2 C3 LOAD%
    02/10/09 15:33:40 34 34 33 34 9.3
    02/10/09 15:33:41 32 32 32 32 0.1
    02/10/09 15:33:42 33 33 37 34 0.8
    02/10/09 15:33:43 32 32 32 33 0.2
    02/10/09 15:33:44 32 32 32 32 0.1
    02/10/09 15:33:45 32 32 32 32 0.3
    02/10/09 15:33:46 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:33:47 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:33:48 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:33:49 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:33:50 32 32 32 32 0.1
    02/10/09 15:33:51 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:33:52 32 32 32 32 0.2
    02/10/09 15:33:53 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:33:54 32 32 32 32 0.3
    02/10/09 15:33:55 32 32 32 33 0.4
    02/10/09 15:33:56 32 32 32 32 0.1
    02/10/09 15:33:57 32 32 32 32 0.2
    02/10/09 15:33:58 32 32 32 32 0.4
    02/10/09 15:33:59 33 33 32 33 2.7
    02/10/09 15:34:00 32 32 32 32 0.4
    02/10/09 15:34:01 32 32 33 32 0.6
    02/10/09 15:34:02 33 33 32 33 1.9
    02/10/09 15:34:03 32 32 32 33 0.2
    02/10/09 15:34:04 32 32 32 33 1.0
    02/10/09 15:34:05 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:06 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:07 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:08 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:09 32 32 32 32 0.1
    02/10/09 15:34:10 32 32 32 32 0.1
    02/10/09 15:34:11 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:12 32 32 32 32 0.2
    02/10/09 15:34:13 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:14 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:15 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:16 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:18 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:19 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:20 32 32 32 32 0.1
    02/10/09 15:34:21 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:22 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:23 32 32 32 32 0.2
    02/10/09 15:34:24 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:25 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:26 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:27 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:28 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:29 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:30 32 32 32 32 0.1
    02/10/09 15:34:31 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:32 32 32 32 32 0.2
    02/10/09 15:34:33 32 32 32 32 0.4
    02/10/09 15:34:34 32 32 32 32 0.1
    02/10/09 15:34:35 32 32 32 32 0.3
    02/10/09 15:34:36 32 32 32 32 0.1
    02/10/09 15:34:37 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:38 32 32 32 32 0.1
    02/10/09 15:34:39 32 32 32 32 0.1
    02/10/09 15:34:40 32 32 32 32 0.1
    02/10/09 15:34:41 32 32 32 32 0.0
    02/10/09 15:34:42 40 42 33 33 16.6
    02/10/09 15:34:43 33 33 40 45 25.1
    02/10/09 15:34:44 43 44 35 34 25.2
    02/10/09 15:34:45 37 37 38 44 24.9
    02/10/09 15:34:46 43 44 36 33 25.0
    02/10/09 15:34:47 44 44 36 34 25.0
    02/10/09 15:34:48 47 45 35 34 24.7
    02/10/09 15:34:49 35 35 45 40 25.0
    02/10/09 15:34:50 46 45 35 34 24.9
    02/10/09 15:34:51 44 45 36 34 25.0
    02/10/09 15:34:52 44 45 36 34 25.0
    02/10/09 15:34:53 47 45 36 34 25.0
    02/10/09 15:34:54 42 42 41 36 24.9
    02/10/09 15:34:55 36 36 45 40 25.0
    02/10/09 15:34:56 47 45 36 34 24.8
    02/10/09 15:34:57 47 45 36 34 24.9
    02/10/09 15:34:58 45 45 36 34 25.0
    02/10/09 15:34:59 45 45 36 34 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:00 43 45 37 35 25.1
    02/10/09 15:35:01 45 45 37 35 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:02 45 45 36 35 25.2
    02/10/09 15:35:03 47 46 36 34 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:04 38 38 44 39 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:05 38 38 40 45 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:06 45 46 37 35 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:07 38 38 45 40 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:08 48 46 36 35 24.5
    02/10/09 15:35:09 48 46 36 35 24.9
    02/10/09 15:35:10 48 46 36 35 24.9
    02/10/09 15:35:11 36 36 42 47 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:12 43 44 37 36 25.1
    02/10/09 15:35:13 36 36 42 47 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:14 43 44 37 36 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:15 37 37 45 41 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:16 45 46 37 35 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:17 45 46 37 35 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:18 48 46 37 35 24.9
    02/10/09 15:35:19 37 37 47 41 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:20 37 37 42 47 25.1
    02/10/09 15:35:21 45 46 37 35 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:22 40 42 40 39 25.2
    02/10/09 15:35:23 45 45 37 36 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:24 42 42 40 44 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:25 48 47 37 35 24.9
    02/10/09 15:35:26 37 37 42 47 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:27 44 44 38 41 24.9
    02/10/09 15:35:28 38 38 45 41 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:30 42 42 44 39 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:31 40 40 45 40 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:32 44 45 38 37 24.9
    02/10/09 15:35:33 46 46 37 36 25.1
    02/10/09 15:35:34 46 46 37 36 24.9
    02/10/09 15:35:35 48 47 37 35 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:36 43 42 41 40 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:37 48 47 37 37 24.9
    02/10/09 15:35:38 46 47 37 36 24.9
    02/10/09 15:35:39 46 47 38 36 24.9
    02/10/09 15:35:40 45 46 38 36 25.1
    02/10/09 15:35:41 44 46 38 37 25.0
    02/10/09 15:35:42 48 46 38 36 24.9
    02/10/09 15:35:43 46 47 43 48 42.2
    02/10/09 15:35:44 45 45 45 49 50.0
    02/10/09 15:35:45 52 52 39 36 49.8
    02/10/09 15:35:46 44 44 49 49 50.0
    02/10/09 15:35:47 39 39 50 50 50.0
    02/10/09 15:35:48 52 52 40 42 49.9
    02/10/09 15:35:49 40 40 50 50 49.7
    02/10/09 15:35:50 47 48 45 50 50.0
    02/10/09 15:35:51 51 50 49 44 49.9
    02/10/09 15:35:52 51 49 45 49 49.9
    02/10/09 15:35:53 50 49 47 48 50.1
    02/10/09 15:35:54 49 50 47 48 50.2
    02/10/09 15:35:55 52 50 50 45 49.9
    02/10/09 15:35:56 54 54 40 40 50.3
    02/10/09 15:35:57 52 50 51 48 49.9
    02/10/09 15:35:58 51 50 51 45 49.8
    02/10/09 15:35:59 43 43 50 51 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:00 44 44 51 50 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:01 54 54 40 39 49.9
    02/10/09 15:36:02 50 51 45 44 50.2
    02/10/09 15:36:03 45 45 49 51 50.6
    02/10/09 15:36:04 48 48 47 45 49.8
    02/10/09 15:36:05 49 49 47 50 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:06 49 49 47 51 49.9
    02/10/09 15:36:07 49 49 47 50 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:08 48 48 48 51 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:09 51 50 47 49 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:10 49 48 48 52 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:11 45 47 49 52 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:12 49 50 48 50 50.1
    02/10/09 15:36:13 46 46 48 52 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:14 51 51 44 48 49.9
    02/10/09 15:36:15 45 45 52 50 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:16 46 48 48 52 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:17 44 44 52 51 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:18 46 48 49 52 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:19 40 40 53 52 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:20 40 40 52 52 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:21 39 39 53 52 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:22 49 50 47 51 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:23 42 42 52 52 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:24 49 50 52 48 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:25 50 50 48 45 49.9
    02/10/09 15:36:26 50 51 51 46 49.9
    02/10/09 15:36:27 55 55 43 42 49.9
    02/10/09 15:36:28 47 49 49 52 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:29 50 50 48 51 49.9
    02/10/09 15:36:30 52 50 48 52 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:31 50 50 48 52 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:32 51 49 49 52 50.1
    02/10/09 15:36:33 44 44 53 52 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:34 48 48 51 51 49.9
    02/10/09 15:36:35 51 51 49 47 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:36 54 51 53 48 49.9
    02/10/09 15:36:37 44 44 53 52 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:38 50 51 53 47 49.9
    02/10/09 15:36:39 52 51 49 52 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:40 45 45 53 52 49.9
    02/10/09 15:36:41 51 52 53 47 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:43 52 52 47 49 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:44 55 52 49 47 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:45 52 51 52 47 49.9
    02/10/09 15:36:46 52 50 53 49 50.2
    02/10/09 15:36:47 50 50 53 49 49.8
    02/10/09 15:36:48 50 48 50 53 50.1
    02/10/09 15:36:49 50 50 52 49 49.7
    02/10/09 15:36:50 52 50 49 53 50.0
    02/10/09 15:36:51 51 49 50 53 49.9
    02/10/09 15:36:52 54 52 54 53 65.3
    02/10/09 15:36:53 54 52 54 54 74.9
    02/10/09 15:36:54 55 54 55 54 74.8
    02/10/09 15:36:55 55 54 55 54 74.9
    02/10/09 15:36:56 52 52 55 54 74.3
    02/10/09 15:36:57 55 54 55 54 75.4
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  20. #3220
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    Rivatuner's CPU load plugin calculates load using the same (or similar enough) method as Task Manager (which even doesn't take into account clock modulation, how primitive ). I am not sure if this is of any help, or even if it is related, but these pics might give you some idea as to why they show up differently:


    Running the cooldown test.


    Just setting clock modulation to 12.5% and then back to 100%.
    Last edited by randomizer; 02-10-2009 at 06:01 PM.

  21. #3221
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    Thanks randomizer for showing an example of when the traditional load meter might not be accurate with a Core based processor.

    I did some more testing and found that the Load meter in RealTemp is a lot more stable compared to the RealTemp - RivaTuner plug-in. It uses the same code but for some reason, the plug-in shows occasional load spikes and dips that aren't recorded by the load meter in the RealTemp program. I'm going to have a look to see if there is anything I can do to the plug-in to improve its stability.

    Edit: I ran two threads of Prime95 Small FFTs and found that the MHz part of the RealTemp / RivaTuner plug-in seems to be causing a problem for the load meter. The Load Meter graph displays a lot of variability but calms right down when I turn the MHz off. Until I find a fix, I'd run either MHz or Load but not both at the same time.

    Last edited by unclewebb; 02-10-2009 at 11:08 PM.

  22. #3222
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    Bad news messenger returns Sorry about that, but it's not working:
    realtemp_7.jpg

    Tell me, I need a specific module or service to run? Why asking: I have some deactivated non-critical services on my machine, can they have an impact in this issue?


    LE: I ran a CPU Cool Down Test, maybe is helpful.

    realtemp_8.jpg

    realtemp_9.jpg
    Last edited by darkzone; 02-11-2009 at 12:14 PM.
    Better to fight for something than live for nothing
    US General George Patton

  23. #3223
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    It has taken a while but I think I finally understand what's causing this bug in Windows Server 2008 darkzone:



    Since RealTemp 3.00 works fine in Windows 2000, XP, Vista and Windows 7; I think this issue is mostly a MS bug but I have a fix for it.
    I think the next version of RealTemp for you darkzone is going to be a good one.

  24. #3224
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    I thought about it already - here. But why the older version is running without this annoying bug?

    I also hope the new version will be THE ONE
    Last edited by darkzone; 02-12-2009 at 10:00 PM.
    Better to fight for something than live for nothing
    US General George Patton

  25. #3225
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    Noticed something weird today. I have always had a problem of cores 0 and 1 jumping up and down 5c whenever under load. It was like clockwork, after a few minutes under load it would drop 5c, then back up again after a couple mins. Process would repeat over and over again. Cores 2 and 3 would steady. Also I am not getting errors in Prime 95 during this.


    Look at these two pics and check out the load %.






    I have all eist and the other setting turned off in BIOS. I would assume that the load drop is why my temps are changing on cores 0 and 1. what would cause this?

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