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Thread: Real Temp - New temp program for Intel Core processors

  1. #3626
    Xtreme Addict unclewebb's Avatar
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    Hi loonym. Very nice XS Bench score.

    I almost never see any results from this bench so I haven't kept close track of what programming changes have effected it.

    The calculation it does is small and fits in the cache so it is 100% CPU MHz, and cache speed sensitive. Compared to Core 2 chips, Core i7 can definitely crunch numbers faster at the same MHz.

    The most recent changes were the ability to Cancel out while the bench is running. I know this slowed things down so it's likely that you had to work harder and overclock higher to match rge's old score.

    You are now officially the new and improved RealTemp 3.30 - XS Bench world record holder. How does it feel to be famous? Unfortunately, in the land of free software, fame doesn't translate into much $$$$$.

    It will probably be a week or two or three but I'll add your name and new record to the next release of RealTemp. The code is in the middle of a general house cleaning and I've been too lazy to work on it too hard during the summer. I won't be making any changes to the XS Bench code so your score will remain valid.

    I'll send you a PM when the next version is ready so the world can see your new record, unless rge finds some colder air and gets his new i7-950 a little faster. Now he'll be motivated when he finds out.

    I was just wondering, do you know if your core sensors are stuck at -8C? In theory, Distance to TJMax can only count up to 127 so the lowest possible reported temperature would be -27C. 45nm core 2 sensors didn't have a chance in hell of getting near that temperature without sticking so I was just wondering how low a Core i7 sensor can go before crapping out.

  2. #3627
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    Hi, i am using Real Temp for quite a long time, i always preffered it over core temp and other monitoring software. I have one small suggestion - is it possible to add an option "Run RealTemp on startup"? When i am doing stability tests or just testing some settings, i always boot up and first thing i do is open a monitoring software, so i thought it could come handy. Cheers.

  3. #3628
    Xtreme Member burebista's Avatar
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    Task Manager or registry edit. Pretty easy to do it yourself.
    AFAIK Kevin is not a fan of software writing to registry.
    If it ain't broke... fix it until it is.

  4. #3629
    Xtreme Addict unclewebb's Avatar
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    Drag a link to RealTemp.exe into your Startup folder. In XP, click on the Start menu and it should be easy to find your Startup folder.

    Remember, just a link to the exe that you want to start. Don't drag the whole program folder into there.

    In Vista or Windows 7, this folder is a little more hidden but it's still there. Have a look in this folder:
    C:\Users\user name\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Startup

    I've found that this is the best way to start a program with the fewest issues and if you ever get sick of RealTemp, it's easy to go back into this folder and delete the link to it. I prefer not to add any items to the startup area in a users registry so they can drag the RealTemp folder to wherever they like on their hard drive.

    The Task Scheduler in Vista or Windows 7 is also a great idea to control start up items but it's a little too complex for some. Here' a tutorial if you want to learn about it.

    http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/13...eate-task.html

  5. #3630
    Xtreme Addict randomizer's Avatar
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    These i7s run pretty cool if you undervolt them nicely. 0.16V below VID and the stock cooler manages this in Prime95 with HT and Turbo enabled:



    Granted I'm running in the 70s and even up to 80C at stock.

  6. #3631
    Xtreme Member -X-hellfire's Avatar
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    Have installed Rivatuner 2.24 and RealTemp 3.30 and the Plugin RTcore but it only shows two of my four cores on the Q6600

    RTCore.dll





    It is the same thing when I use the Plugin for Everest, only core 0, 1

    How do I make it see all four cores?
    Last edited by -X-hellfire; 08-14-2009 at 09:49 AM.
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  7. #3632
    Xtreme Addict unclewebb's Avatar
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    Does RealTemp 3.30 show all 4 of your cores? Do all 4 cores show up in the Device Manager under Processors?

    I haven't seen this problem before with the RTCore.dll plugin and it's strange that the Everest plugin would be doing the same thing.

    Open up the Settings window in RealTemp and tell me what it shows for APIC ID. It should be something like 0123.

  8. #3633
    Xtreme Member -X-hellfire's Avatar
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    It shows the four cores in RealTemp and Device Manager and Everest but not with the plugins in Rivatuner 2.24


    Device Manager


    RTsettings



    Everest ...which shows 17C idle temp on Core 4 but thats normal


    ...all four cores shows up in Everest


    RealTemp




    I'm running forceware 185.85

    Might need to reinstall Rivatuner
    Last edited by -X-hellfire; 08-14-2009 at 10:50 AM.
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  9. #3634
    Xtreme Member century child's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclewebb View Post
    Drag a link to RealTemp.exe into your Startup folder. In XP, click on the Start menu and it should be easy to find your Startup folder.

    Remember, just a link to the exe that you want to start. Don't drag the whole program folder into there.

    In Vista or Windows 7, this folder is a little more hidden but it's still there. Have a look in this folder:
    C:\Users\user name\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Startup

    I've found that this is the best way to start a program with the fewest issues and if you ever get sick of RealTemp, it's easy to go back into this folder and delete the link to it. I prefer not to add any items to the startup area in a users registry so they can drag the RealTemp folder to wherever they like on their hard drive.

    The Task Scheduler in Vista or Windows 7 is also a great idea to control start up items but it's a little too complex for some. Here' a tutorial if you want to learn about it.

    http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/13...eate-task.html
    Hello unclewebb. I am running Windows 7 RC1 and have tried both methods, adding to startup folder and using task scheduler but whatever I try, it refuses to run at startup. If I use the task scheduler, when I look at the list of running processes, Realtemp is listed but the program itself does not actually autostart. Do you have any suggestions for me?
    If I'm a danger to myself just think what I could do to you.

  10. #3635
    Xtreme Addict unclewebb's Avatar
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    Where do you have the RealTemp folder located? Do you have UAC enabled? Give me a few more details so I can try to duplicate the problem you're having.

  11. #3636
    Xtreme Member KURTZ's Avatar
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    hi Uncle, just a Q: i don't understand what does the 'idle calibration' can you explain it? thanks
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  12. #3637
    Xtreme Addict unclewebb's Avatar
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    The temperature sensors do not respond linearly to changes in core temperature. The Core i7 sensors are very good and changes in actual core temperature seems to track changes in these sensors very closely but the 45nm Core 2 sensors can be horrible.

    Intel calibrates these sensors somewhere around 100C and I find that core 0 is usually very accurate at that point. The further you get away from the calibration point, the more the amount of error increases. Even though TJMax is correct, the reported temperature at idle might read 5C or 10C too low or too high. Every CPU is unique so I gave users a way to correct for this error at idle by using some Idle Calibration adjustments.

    If users saw errors in their reported temperature at idle, they used to increase or decrease TJMax but all this did was move the sensor error from idle up towards TJMax so now their load temperatures would be reported incorrectly. Idle calibration lets you correct the temperature curve of your sensors without having to change TJMax which will screw up your full load temperatures.

    The data from these sensors might change 9C or 11C for every 10C change in core temperature. The +/- 10% accuracy number was a rough ballpark number from Intel's presentations last year at IDF. The amount of error might be worse than that. When you get 60C away from the calibration point at idle, it's easy to see that a +/- 10% error in these sensors can become significant.

    Most users don't bother to calibrate their sensors because it's not an exact science. It was just nice that Intel finally admitted that these sensors are far from perfect with errors at the TJMax calibration point, errors in the slope of the temperature curve as well as sticking sensors at low temperatures.

  13. #3638
    Xtreme Member KURTZ's Avatar
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    thanks uncle
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  14. #3639
    Xtreme Member century child's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unclewebb View Post
    Where do you have the RealTemp folder located? Do you have UAC enabled? Give me a few more details so I can try to duplicate the problem you're having.
    I have tried with the folder located in the root directory or on another drive, it doesn't seem to matter where it is. UAC is enabled and I have the program set to always run as administrator and listed as an exception in DEP. Please let me know if I can provide anything else.
    If I'm a danger to myself just think what I could do to you.

  15. #3640
    Xtreme Addict unclewebb's Avatar
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    I'll do some Windows 7 testing later tonight to see if I can duplicate your problem. Have you tried testing with the RealTemp folder located on your Desktop or in some other sub folder of your account? Do you have Administrator privileges? I'll create a basic account to see if I can figure this out.

    Some anti-virus programs like Trend Micro PC-cillin will also try to block the installation of the WinRing0 open source driver that RealTemp depends on to read the sensors.
    Last edited by unclewebb; 08-19-2009 at 04:01 PM.

  16. #3641
    Xtreme Member century child's Avatar
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    I appreciate your looking into this. I had the exact same problems under Vista. I have an admin account and have tried having the folder in various directories and located on various drives but it just will not autostart for me.
    If I'm a danger to myself just think what I could do to you.

  17. #3642
    Xtreme Member KURTZ's Avatar
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    @ uncle: just a tip, with the latest bete isnt' possible to view the min/max VID correct? can you put all the values in the next? right now i can view only the min VID (with the C1E enabled) but i need to know (also) the max VID without put my CPU @ fullload

    i think this is a glitch like coretemp that sometimes tell us the uncorrect VID

    edit: what about the movements? how i can understand these values?
    Last edited by KURTZ; 08-20-2009 at 04:29 AM.
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  18. #3643
    Xtreme Addict unclewebb's Avatar
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    KURTZ: In the latest beta there is the option to show the current VID on the main screen but I promise to add Min / Max VID back to the settings window.
    I rarely hear anyone talking about Min / Max VID. Most users only compare Max VID.

    During a sensor movement test, in theory, the sensors should move similar amounts. This test puts an equal load on each core so in theory the temperature of each core should change a similar amount. It was originally a quick way to check if a sensor is sticking. On a Quad if 3 sensors move 10 and one sensor only moves 2 then the one that moved the least amount is likely getting stuck at idle. The 45nm Core 2 sensors were bad for this. Do a full CPU Cool Down Test at whatever your normal overclocked MHz is and post the results and I'll try to explain to you what I see. Include any details about your setup.

    century child: I just started up Win7 and I'm playing with different UAC and Administrator settings. I'll see what I can figure out. What CPU are you using and what MHz? I've seen some problems where a slower Dual Core was so over loaded when starting up that it was interfering with RealTemp from starting up. I might have to do some under clocking to simulate this.

  19. #3644
    Xtreme Member KURTZ's Avatar
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    @ uncle: i know the general theory (about the sensors), but i don't understand the difference from 15 and 0 movements ...

    i try to explain here, for example:

    0 movs: seems to be dead (the sensor obviously)
    from 1 to 2: the sensors aren't reliable
    from 3 to 15: they are reliable, BUT if i've a clocked system my sensors go around 15 (instead if i've a default cpu my sensors go around 3)

    what do you think about? TIA
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  20. #3645
    Xtreme Addict unclewebb's Avatar
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    I have Administrator privileges on my account and enabled UAC at its Default setting.

    When using UAC, the StartUp folder method seems to cause some issues so I decided to add RealTemp to the TaskScheduler.

    Open up Task Scheduler and start by clicking on Create Basic Task... on the right hand side.



    Enter a name for the task, RealTemp, and then click on Next.



    For Trigger, choose the option, When I log on.



    For Action select, Start a program and then click on Next.



    I dragged the RealTempBeta folder into the Program Files(x86) folder.

    Click on Browse and tell it where it can find RealTemp.exe



    Click Next to go to the Summary window.
    Before clicking Finish select, Open the Properties dialog for this task when I click Finish



    Now select, Run with highest privileges and click on OK and you're done.



    Now reboot and see if it works.

    I know this is a big hassle but when running UAC, it's the correct way to add items to your Start Up routine that need Administrator privileges. You will also have to do the above if UAC is enabled to get Core Temp to start correctly. Temperature monitoring programs need to run at this level to access the temperature sensors which are a protected resource. Maybe we can hang some of the blame on Intel as well since reading the core temperature shouldn't be rocket science or a dangerous activity needing Ring 0 access.

    If you ever have problems where RealTemp seems to be running in the Task Manager but doesn't appear on your screen, Kill the RealTemp.exe process and then go into the RealTemp.ini file and delete the WindowXY= key. RealTemp stores the last position it was at in that key so if it gets screwed up there might be a problem. I noticed one issue when testing that if the RealTempBeta folder is located directly in the C: directory then this window position info gets ignored and RealTemp was starting up for me in the top left corner. I think that's another Windows 7 UAC induced feature.

    Edit: The above method also works in a limited account but you will need to enter an Administrator password before RealTemp will be allowed to run at Start Up.

    Edit #2: Richard was having a lot of problems with this method. RealTemp would show up in the Task Manager but he couldn't access it anywhere. He finally figured out that for the last step it is critical that you have "Run only when user is logged on" is checked.

    If you follow the above method exactly then it should work with or without UAC enabled and whether you are in an Admin or Standard account.
    Last edited by unclewebb; 10-25-2009 at 10:21 PM.

  21. #3646
    Xtreme Addict unclewebb's Avatar
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    KURTZ: The initial sensor test puts an equal load on each core for about 5 seconds and measures how much the core temperature changes during that 5 second period. If you are overclocking with lots of core voltage then your temperature is going to go up much higher on each core than if you are at default settings or under clocked. At 1600 MHz and 1.10 volts your sensors will barely move during this test because your CPU isn't creating a lot of heat at full load. A well overclocked Core i7 with the OEM cooler is going to create a small inferno so you will see huge numbers during the sensor movement test.

    If you swap your cooler to a better one, the amount the temperature changes during this test should decrease showing you that your new cooler is working correctly. If the sensor movement increases after swapping a cooler then you either installed a crappy cooler or didn't do a good job installing it.

  22. #3647
    Xtreme Member KURTZ's Avatar
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    thanks Uncle, what do you think about these shots?
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  23. #3648
    Xtreme Member Wishmaker's Avatar
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    I seem to be having a problem with Real Temp. It fails to read my TRUE processor speed. For more details :





    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...90#post3971290
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  24. #3649
    Xtreme Addict unclewebb's Avatar
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    Wishmaker: Something changed in Windows 7 which caused an issue for the MHz in RealTemp 3.00.
    Try updating to RealTemp 3.30 and show a comparison of that and CPU-Z 1.52.

    http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip

    KURTZ: It looks like you've got some seriously borked sensors or RealTemp has a problem. Try downloading the latest version or RealTemp from the above link.

    After you boot up and are at idle does it say HOT HOT in the Thermal Status area?

    Run a SuperPI mod bench at 3000 MHz so I can have a look at your results.
    1M is OK, 4M or 8M if you're bored. I just want to see if your CPU is taking a performance hit or if just the sensors are screwy.
    Last edited by unclewebb; 08-21-2009 at 08:47 AM.

  25. #3650
    Xtreme Member century child's Avatar
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    I followed your instructions for adding RealTemp to the task scheduler and this time it worked. I must have overlooked something when adding it before. Thank you very much for your help.
    If I'm a danger to myself just think what I could do to you.

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