AC Chiller

[adpr_02]

Hey, I'm just a noob when it comes to this kind of stuff, but I think it's time I give this stuff a try. Before I begin to read volumes on chillers, I would like to know something.

What is the absolute smallest chiller unit on the market?

I'd like to fit it in my server case if at all possible, I don't want temps in the negatives at all. I want to get my loads very close to ambients and that's it.

Can I get a chiller that cools to 10 - 20C to run silent? I.E with a low CFM fan, or is it the compressor that generates the noize? I don't mind modding, volt modding, or w/e to reach these results.

[71 (Bryan)]

why dont you post in the chilled water section.
or what you can do is this buy a used $150,- coolit freezone
take of the: 1 fan 2 pump 3 waterblock
then: add a 120mm low speed fan 2 good silent pump 3. dtek fuzion.
pr do as this dude did:

EDIT: heres the link, i couldnt find but i finaly did.


http://www.coolitsystems.com/index.p...&id=43&catid=6

[Fujimitsu]

There's not a lot of commercially available chillers.

You'll most likely need to have one built. They are generally going to be about the same size as a single stage, with the same noise level (nearly silent).

Talk to some builders, I wouldn't reccomend trying one yourself... especially if you want it to have precise temp control. You can go MUCH MUCH colder however, 10-20c would be kind of a waste IMO.

Dodge coolit like the plauge for the most part, although it MIGHT work for a low heatload system at this temperature.

[71 (Bryan)]

coolit's eliminator does work really well on a p-4 (tested my self) but for hotter chipd its has to be modded, look at the link above, how well a modded eliminator cools.
dont be an anti-coolit fanboy

[Fujimitsu]

I'm not a fanboy of anything. But their products don't work as advertised, so why would I reccomend them? Yes you can modify some to work mediocrely but I'm still not impressed.

TEC chillers are woefully inefficient, so i prefer vapor compression. For the money you spend you get much much better performance from a small refrigerant chiller.

[TorVincent]

Hey, I'm just a noob when it comes to this kind of stuff, but I think it's time I give this stuff a try. Before I begin to read volumes on chillers, I would like to know something.

What is the absolute smallest chiller unit on the market?

I'd like to fit it in my server case if at all possible, I don't want temps in the negatives at all. I want to get my loads very close to ambients and that's it.

Can I get a chiller that cools to 10 - 20C to run silent? I.E with a low CFM fan, or is it the compressor that generates the noize? I don't mind modding, volt modding, or w/e to reach these results.

I'm basically looking for the same thing as you are.
I want a system i can run 24/7 without much worry, so phase
and TEC is not a very viable solution for me. I now have a pretty decent watercooling kit, but i want it to be alittle more efficient. So all i want is to
lower the water temps with about 20C. That would make me a happy man.
I dont want to have to worry about to much condens. Any simple solutions for this? My current system is an EVGA 680i, E8500 @ 4,3ghz, 8800gtx in sli.
Only have my cpu in the water loop so far. Watercooling consist of PA 120.3 with medium late yoons, D5 and D-Tek Fuzion with nozzle kit. Any tips on lowering the water temp about 20C?? Would be amazing Sorry if it feels like im hijacking your thread... And sorry for my bad english... Im Norwegian

Vinci

[Fujimitsu]

I'm basically looking for the same thing as you are.
I want a system i can run 24/7 without much worry, so phase
and TEC is not a very viable solution for me. I now have a pretty decent watercooling kit, but i want it to be alittle more efficient. So all i want is to
lower the water temps with about 20C. That would make me a happy man.
I dont want to have to worry about to much condens. Any simple solutions for this? My current system is an EVGA 680i, E8500 @ 4,3ghz, 8800gtx in sli.
Only have my cpu in the water loop so far. Watercooling consist of PA 120.3 with medium late yoons, D5 and D-Tek Fuzion with nozzle kit. Any tips on lowering the water temp about 20C?? Would be amazing Sorry if it feels like im hijacking your thread... And sorry for my bad english... Im Norwegian

Vinci

The "standard" methods are phase & TEC. Any chiller you buy is going to be powered by a TEC or a phase unit, so it's not going to be any safer or less complicated.

That said, you could make an evaporative cooler.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=78543

Should get you several C below ambient, but it depends on your humidity. The dryer the air the better this will perform, but it will make the air in your room noticeably more humid.

It is the cheapest way to get sub-ambient, and probably the best route for you.

[ArtosDracon]

If you don't want sub-freezing then a phase driven chiller is pretty much out. A TEC chiller is going to be the way to go. With a TEC chiller you can select just the right set of TECs and vary their voltage to control your temperatures VERY precisely.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

If you don't want sub-freezing then a phase driven chiller is pretty much out. A TEC chiller is going to be the way to go. With a TEC chiller you can select just the right set of TECs and vary their voltage to control your temperatures VERY precisely.

Uhm how do you figure this? Does your fridge freeze every thing? How do you think high end electronics is cooled in some systems?

One abreviation: EPR

[TorVincent]

Okay, I guess i should elaborate abit. I don't mind it beeing phase or TEC, but i would like it to be a pre built system, if you know what i mean. And preferably not some HUGE box outside my computer making alot of noise.
The Wife Acceptance Factor is quite important here. What i'm looking for i guess is basically a TEC cooled or similar radiator. I want a system that can keep as low temps possible without having to worry about condens. If there is condens outside that pc, I dont really care about Man im horrible at trying to explain what i want... Reading this post almost makes me dizzy :P

Vinci

[Fujimitsu]

Okay, I guess i should elaborate abit. I don't mind it beeing phase or TEC, but i would like it to be a pre built system, if you know what i mean. And preferably not some HUGE box outside my computer making alot of noise.
The Wife Acceptance Factor is quite important here. What i'm looking for i guess is basically a TEC cooled or similar radiator. I want a system that can keep as low temps possible without having to worry about condens. If there is condens outside that pc, I dont really care about Man im horrible at trying to explain what i want... Reading this post almost makes me dizzy :P

Vinci

If you go significantly below ambient temps, you'll have condensation. If you don't want to deal with any hassles, and you just want slightly sub-ambient water...

Honestly, for your money.. I'd just get a coolit unit.

A TEC or phase chiller is going to be fairly expensive to have custom built, and the price will go up with the complexity. It just seems like a waste of time, money, and effort to have something custom built to run at such mediocre temperatures.

May as well just get a mediocre product with a warranty.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Welcome to the world of engineering, it is all about data and numbers.

Opperating temp (the temp in a realistic range that you want it to opperate at)
Load (The sum of the heat output of all conducters you will be cooling)
pump flow (Pump is all so part of the load)
Ambient temp.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

If you go significantly below ambient temps, you'll have condensation. If you don't want to deal with any hassles, and you just want slightly sub-ambient water...

Honestly, for your money.. I'd just get a coolit unit.

A TEC or phase chiller is going to be fairly expensive to have custom built, and the price will go up with the complexity. It just seems like a waste of time, money, and effort to have something custom built to run at such mediocre temperatures.

May as well just get a mediocre product with a warranty.

Or even better get a bigger rad and put it out side, bang instant cool running coolant. TEC is a total waste even at mediocre temp ranges, why pay for all the electricity when He can get a bigger rad and get just as good results for less power.

[ArtosDracon]

Uhm how do you figure this? Does your fridge freeze every thing? How do you think high end electronics is cooled in some systems?

One abreviation: EPR

I didn't mean it was impossible, I meant it was impractical. The compressor is going to be cycling constantly and the controller itself is going to cost $100-150 plus $300-500 for someone here to build a chiller for him, plus shipping, it would be much easier to either do direct die in the case of a cpu only loop or, use a pair of blocks and his existing radiator on the hotside with a burly tec and it's own power supply; two blocks, the tec and powersupply are going to run, what $200, even $300? and it'll be smaller, self contained, fully adjustable on the fly.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Acualy no the compressor will not be cycling at all, you do not need a high end controller a simple t stat and properly engineered system can do what he wants cheaply and effectively.

A properly engineered phase system with a EPR is fully on the fly adjustable as well.

[ArtosDracon]

Acualy no the compressor will not be cycling at all, you do not need a high end controller a simple t stat and properly engineered system can do what he wants cheaply and effectively.

A properly engineered phase system with a EPR is fully on the fly adjustable as well.

no offense to the OP but, does he really sound like an engineer to you? I think he's more looking for a simple, plug and play, cooling system. Instead of being argumentative why not offer something constructive. I'm not a HVAC guy, I'm an electrical engineer, my degree is about 30 years old, I know how an AC system works, I'm building my own chiller, I don't know all the intricacies, why don't you explain what you're talking about and how it works instead of just saying this is what he needs. Maybe he and I both could learn something here.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

No offense to the OP but does he really sound like an engineer to you? I think he's more looking for a simple, plug and play cooling system. Instead of being argumentative, why not offer something constructive. I'm not a HVAC guy, I'm an electrical engineer.

My degree is about 30 years old, I know how an AC system works. I'm building my own chiller, I may not know all the intricacies but why don't you explain what you're talking about and how it works instead of just saying this is what he needs. perhaps he and I both could learn something here.

I know, that's why I asked him for the raw data, so that I can engineer a system and see what it would cost to build one with out a case or to help select an ideal system.

It is all about heat loads, every one here seems to think bigger = better, not so. Once I know his operating heat load @ temp desired I can size the evap, once evap is sized I find a compressor that matches this load and then based on the compressor and load (With his local ambient temp) I size cap tube, with all this figured out then the condenser is sized.

To prevent overly short or continuous cycle I'd most likely slightly under size the compressor, to keep energy consumption at the lowest I'd over size the condenser and utilize fan cycling (Which will yeild the best performance of the system), to ensure a locked evap temp I'd use a evaporator pressure regulator (which is adjustable) if indeed it where at all needed.

It all starts at the heat load @ operating temp desired.

I'm the type that tends to give things out in bullet style format with little filler words. Very direct and blunt, it is just the way I speak.

[TorVincent]

Thank you all for your swift replys, im new to this forums, but so far it seems amazing. (New subscriber, not new reader And you are right, im not an engineer, im just a guy with a hobby As for my heat load, im not sure...
I run an E8500 @ 4,3ghz with 1.45 vcore (in bios) and that's the only thing in my waterloop. Idle temps are about 35C, load 60 (core temps)
What I would like is a system that tries to keep the water in my system, in a as close as possible, permanent temperature of say 15C (or whatever you more experienced guys would recommend) So at idle it "slow" down and at load it would "speed up" if you know what i mean. Not sure if this is possible... well sure it is... but at what cost I have looked into vapos also... but is it even possible to have these and run 24/7?

Thanks for all your input guys!

Vinci

[Xeon th MG Pony]

yes they can run indefinetaly, I'll leave the guys who know the wattages of the hard ware to post their heat load.

[TorVincent]

After doing some reading and checking out the humidity in my area, I can conclude that this is not going to be easy. The humidity here can get up to as much as 90%, so condensation would be a big issue here even with low sub ambient temps So I guess i'll have to either stick with what i have now, or go full out with a real water chiller and just learn how to deal well with the condensation. But i appreciate you guys having patience with a new guy to extreme cooling So my question now would have to be, how difficult is it to protect your system from condensation when using a real water chiller?
I'd like my system to be able to run 24/7 if possible...

Vinci

[ArtosDracon]

After doing some reading and checking out the humidity in my area, I can conclude that this is not going to be easy. The humidity here can get up to as much as 90%, so condensation would be a big issue here even with low sub ambient temps So I guess i'll have to either stick with what i have now, or go full out with a real water chiller and just learn how to deal well with the condensation. But i appreciate you guys having patience with a new guy to extreme cooling So my question now would have to be, how difficult is it to protect your system from condensation when using a real water chiller?
I'd like my system to be able to run 24/7 if possible...

Vinci

It's not super easy but, I'm finding it easier than I had expected. I'm using a few very simple items and I'll be testing it pretty soon here. I'm basically using closed cell foam and coating it with liquid electrical tape to create an air tight seal between it and the motherboard and between each piece. So far looks to be doing an excellent job. I just need to get some longer 6/32 screws so I can finish it up and finish modifying the block and I'll be doing pulldown tests to check for condensation by the middle of next week.

[TorVincent]

Sweet, hope you post some of your results here then
I have no experience at all with condensation, and that first step is always abit scary hehe. Guess i'll have to think about it some more and make up my mind... But a proper waterchiller is gonna cost abit also... oh well... It's only money :P

Vinci