Lapping the 2.4C IHS

[Liquid3D]

I know this is an old thread but i never poated ta pic becauise i was too lazy to take the CPU out. Here's some Pic's I've taken. I'
m really impressed with this. One reason i've decided to take processor out is to remove the IHS, First I'm comparing it after lapping it almost through the IHS.

FYI I began with 320 ended with 600 Automotive Sandpaper. Taking a cloth, dabbed with alcohol and clean the IHS surface. When you get to the 600 paper, do the same to the paper as well preventing any possible friction related static build-up.

Holding the chip so it's not da,aged isn't that dificult. The pins on the Intel are signifcantly stronger then AMD processor socket pins. Simply place two fingers uder the pins, and your thunb on one half of the IHS, and then switch to the other side. Notice the reflection of my movie poster on the wall ten feet away in the surface reflection. Smooth as as a silk-worm's backside. You can also make out my poor Prometeia waiting to be RMA'd (sigh).

[Major]

I happen to have a dead P4C800 that I stuck my processors in to lap them ! hehe Made it real easy. Lapping made a significant improvement in my temps, but regardless of temps my processors are both topped out. I've had them in 4 different CW mb's now and they top out at the same OC in all the mb's with the exception of the 2.4c in the MSI Neo which didn't do so well.

I started to by a 2.8c today while I was in Atlanta, but it was a Costa and really want an OEM Malay this time.

I hope removing the IHS works out well, I'd like to try that myself atleast on the 2.4c I have.

[LikwidKool]

so using the sand paper wet is ok? wouldn't the water seep through the hole and get to the core? Just want to make sure I do this right when I have some time!

[Peen]

Yeah i used my sandpaper wet , and it worked fine

[Liquid3D]

Originally posted by LikwidKool
so using the sand paper wet is ok? wouldn't the water seep through the hole and get to the core? Just want to make sure I do this right when I have some time!

NO DO NOT use liquid of any kind!!! I said "DAB" the cloth in alocohol, meaning moisten it. And I only use it on the paper at the 600 grit. Wiping the paper with a alcohol moistened cloth should only bne done at the 600 level, because wiping any larger paper would just be akin to cleaning the grains off it. Periodically you can wipe the surface of the processor with an alcohol mopistened cloth, just to see more clearly where your at in the process.

Here's a picture which focuses on a reflection in the heat-sink's surface.

[DoGMaN]

Well damn it, I know what I am doing this afternoon

[DoGMaN]

Wow!! Mine is really bad. I'll post some pics later when I am done.

[shray]

liquid3d.. (little OT) Whats that thing next to the computer in your last pic?

[DoGMaN]

Here is the 'before'. I had used a little 600 grit and wanted to show just how bad my IHS was.


Here is the after




I'll post some temps in a few.

[Peen]

dogman , yours is complete oppostire of what mine was, the core part was higher then the edges, but yours looks great now, temps improve alot?

[DoGMaN]

I had to lap my Alpha again so I don't have any temps yet. I just fired it up. I'll burn in the PCM+ and we'll see how she does.

[DoGMaN]

Weird as this sounds, it seems to have made my temps go up. I'm going to try and reseat the alpha again see if that helps.

[Peen]

i had the same problem , actually my temps staid the same as what they were. Then i tried to do it again and it helped. Now im kinda pissed cause my CPU is running 5c hotter! AND its perfectly flat. I dont think my crappy Zalman 5700u can handle the heat from the cpu

[Spawn]

wow looks good dogman...think ill have to do mine soon...hopefully do it on tues as ill be taking my pc apart to fit in my antec truecontrol 550 watt monster...lol

just a few q's tho...has lapping helped u guys get more of an oc out of ur cpu??...

also for the cpu wot sandpaper do i need???...and for the slk900u heatsink which sandpaper do i need??...and when u say alcohol..is that the white spirit sort of stuff u get from a pharmacists???......jd's wouldnt do the jobv would it???... ...also when ur lapping whats the best method to do it...a straight up and down motion or a figure 8 motion with the sandpaper???

thanks for any info u can give on the above...

[Liquid3D]

Here's my new temps after applying the Nanotherm PCM+, and lapping down a wee bit more. The stuff is very strang. It's like there's "blue" solids, in a clear lquid base. Directions instruct to use just a few drops, and spread "very thin coat". But it's so hard to tell what the Hell your doing. You would need almost ten drops spreading even the thinnest layer, if covering the entire P4 IHS with the blue. I swera to God, I think what they've done, is taken their Nanother Blue II (which is the worst in their line0 and added a base to dilute it? STill the temops are fabo for 3.0GHz on the 2.4C. Here's another issue. My PCPower&Cooling is under volting the Vcore on five mobo's now. The vcore is t 1.550 to compensate, and you can see it keeps dropping to 1.488V. I'd say it's the software but on five mobos? And I always check the BIOS as well as the software in Windows. I wrote them, they said if it's VCpore it's the motherboard. I said "On five different boards?"

[Nanotherm]

Originally posted by Liquid3D
Here's my new temps after applying the Nanotherm PCM+, and lapping down a wee bit more. The stuff is very strang. It's like there's "blue" solids, in a clear lquid base. Directions instruct to use just a few drops, and spread "very thin coat". But it's so hard to tell what the Hell your doing. You would need almost ten drops spreading even the thinnest layer, if covering the entire P4 IHS with the blue. I swera to God, I think what they've done, is taken their Nanother Blue II (which is the worst in their line0 and added a base to dilute it? STill the temops are fabo for 3.0GHz on the 2.4C. Here's another issue. My PCPower&Cooling is under volting the Vcore on five mobo's now. The vcore is t 1.550 to compensate, and you can see it keeps dropping to 1.488V. I'd say it's the software but on five mobos? And I always check the BIOS as well as the software in Windows. I wrote them, they said if it's VCpore it's the motherboard. I said "On five different boards?"

The directions on the label say to "Apply small drop of PCM+ and spread very thin even layer across area of direct contact on surfaces of both CPU and cooling device." I know some people are having a hard time grasping the concept of a liquid TIM, but it's really quite simple. Do what the directions say and you're all set.

One small drop provides adequate coverage (in a very layer) of up to 3 sq. in. of surface area. In other words, a little drop goes a long way. All you want to do is apply a micro-thin coating - not frost a cake. If you used 10 drops to achieve what you thought was a proper application, then you wasted a lot of PCM+ unnecessarily.

And, no, it doesn't have to be a perfectly thin layer - it just has to be a relatively thin, complete and even coating across both mating surfaces. Of course, that doesn't mean the whole HSF or Waterblock - it means the top of the CPU die and the area on the HSF that actually touches the CPU die. I know you know that already, but others don't, hence my explanation.

Since the PCM+ is a liquid and not a viscous paste or "plumber's putty," the PCM+ will easily spread itself evenly throughout the thermal junction under the clamp pressure of the HSF or Waterblock. It a No-Brainer.

The problem is that there are myriads of people out there who are so used to the thick, viscous "thermal grease" TIMs, that it's really hard to grasp the concept of a thin, liquid TIM. Here's the key - don't think really hard about it. Put a drop on both surfaces, rub it around a bit and attach the HSF or Waterblock to the CPU. That's it! Nothing to it!!

Liquid3D, believe me, I'm not trying to embarass you or make you feel foolish in any way. This is a prevalent misconception that I come across on Forums all the time. And these misconceived notions are brought about by people's experiences using other thermal compounds. Consequently, you have no other frame of reference to work from, so you go with what you know.

Well, the PCM+ is completely different than any other thermal compound out there. It is not a thermal grease at all. And, NO, it is not Nanotherm Blue II - in any way shape or form - diluted, watered-down or otherwise. It's a unique "Thermally Conductive Phase Change Material" just like it says on the bottle. The only thing it has in common with the Blue II is the fact that it is blue, too - and a nice shade of blue, too, wouldn't you say?

Let me summarize this post by stating that I purposely designed the PCM+ in a liquid form to simplify the TIM application process - and make a TIM that would be almost literally impossible to misapply. So, the moral of this story is - Keep It Simple - and you'll get great results.

[Liquid3D]

Your not "embarrassing" me at all. One thing I do know, it's that I spread thermal pastes much thinner then the average person. I always try to use the absolute thinnest layer, but of course full coverage. In fact my perfectionism where this subject's concerned, has me constantly explaining that no paste should be left to "hang" over the sides of the "core." Albeit only a few mm in height, any material will prevent air-flow from moving around the processor core's sides.

I realize now I used way too much paste, and I'd be willing to bet, if I'd used two drops instead of 6 (I said ten which was not accurate) my temps would be even lower. So i'm going to do it again this evening, (if here's any left) after i finish some writing. Then I'm writng an article on this entire subject, and belive me I'll be prasing the cooling prowess, and intelligent engineering behind your PCM+. If you read this post you'll see I re-thought my comments made in the reply above. Below is an example of my observations, there's two materials which aren't mixing 100%. If you notice in the Pic. there's area's where the blue is of a lower viscocity, and I couldn't prevent the refletion, but where it's looks "pasty white" it's actually more clear and more "oily." Now I realize where not talking Jiffy peanut butter hear so "spreadibility" isn't so important. So long as the surface is covered (or lets say moistened) it's fine, is that correct? Because if one were to attempt to ensure an all blue coverage, they'd end up like me, with little, to no PCM+ left, which now I'm psyched about.

[Major]

I got some samples today in the mail and will be trying out the Blue II tomorrow.

One thing I would suggest is using some thin plastic (I use clingwrap) streched over the end of your index finger and just dab it around sorta like mop painting on the IHS, you can use a clean peice of plasic wrap to thin out the aplication. Just a suggestion.

I picked up a OEM Mayla 2.8c today from a local Computer distributor that I will give a wirl tomorrow in the promie

[uclajd]

Originally posted by Liquid3D
Here's my new temps after applying the Nanotherm PCM+, and lapping down a wee bit more.

Liquid,

Is it possible that some people's temps go up because the CPU is now smaller, leaving a small gap between HSFs/waterblocks that have standoffs? My waterblock (Asetek) comes with standoffs that are meant precisely for the standard height of the P4. Sand off the IHS, and it's thinner, and the standoffs are now too tall. This would be a concern for me, unless I "lapped" the standoffs too.

Your thoughts on this?

[STEvil]

Dont bother with standoffs for the P4? 8-)

Heres something else you guys could be missing.

Surface area.

The contact area between a bare AMD die and a CPU heatsink is much smaller, allowing for much more of the TIM to squeeze out easier.

The contact area between a P4 IHS and a heatsink is HUGE. The prssure required to press the TIM out properly from the junction between them is nearly insane when you think about it... so what Nanotherm says is completely true in the ammount that should be applied to a P4, but not necessarily an AMD.. although 6 would definately be a waste on an AMD.. heh.

Anyways, i'm looking forward to getting the stuff I was sent and comparing it to "Product-X" asap.. and no its not the Anti-Seize compound I was playing with earlier.. It slaughters that by over 5 deg c so far (and DOES NOT DRY OUT EVER!) and sits right in front of anyone's nose that lives near an agricultural area... lol 8-)

[Liquid3D]

Originally posted by uclajd
Liquid,

Is it possible that some people's temps go up because the CPU is now smaller, leaving a small gap between HSFs/waterblocks that have standoffs? My waterblock (Asetek) comes with standoffs that are meant precisely for the standard height of the P4. Sand off the IHS, and it's thinner, and the standoffs are now too tall. This would be a concern for me, unless I "lapped" the standoffs too.

Your thoughts on this?

Very astute observation, thnak you for brinign this up Tell you why this is troubling me, besides the prima Facie. When i was lapping the IHS it occurred to me, that I needed not only a perfectly flat object with which to wrap the sand-paper around, but the CPU had to be on a flat surface, such that the surface remained even. Same for the adjoining SLK900U heatsink. Call me crazy, but here's waht i've been thinking (albeit coincidence or not). Since lapping the IHS, i've been experiencing a consistent Bandwidth efficiency of 72%. I've benched three different memroy's, and on both channles. Using Corsair XMS3500, I'd though I'd try and attain some of the LL results people are getting using Kingston Hyper-X3500, in the hopes they used simliar IC's. At 2-5-2-2, with Intel Fast CS Enabled, and 240FSB 1:1 I came up with 5200MB/s. Then I tried the OCZ GolD4000, and Corsair Twin-X4000, and each time the "inefficency" was 72%. Lets say I lapped just slightly below the stand-off's height. Now there's less contact pressure under a specific area on the IHS. Because I used a perfectly flat instrument, but had no level to ensure I was lapping uniformly, lets say 30% of total surface area has 40% more material removed. Now let's pressume specific Core architecture responsible for memory related functions, reside's under said area, or akin to it. As a result of the uniform stand-off height, but the one area experiences reduced contact. The core architecture residing directly below said area, now experience's higher temps. Since the on-board diode can only measure that minute area directly beneath the CPU, there would be no way to determine, if there's inconsistent temps along the IHS surface. Ergo, localized temperatures may be high enough to adversly affect specifc processor functions. And if it were the area above the L1 cache, is it not feasable a bottleneck, or other thermal overload related anomaly may occur?

[eva2000]

The problem is that there are myriads of people out there who are so used to the thick, viscous "thermal grease" TIMs, that it's really hard to grasp the concept of a thin, liquid TIM. Here's the key - don't think really hard about it. Put a drop on both surfaces, rub it around a bit and attach the HSF or Waterblock to the CPU. That's it! Nothing to it!!

i've been using PCM+ on all my cpus and still get into this old habit of use to seeing how thick a layer of AS3 is compared to PCM+ :o

[Peen]

I was also thinking about the fact that the cpu is now shorter, but i tested how the presssure affected the cooling, and it wasnt a whole lot really. Remeber, my cooling isnt great with a zalman 5700cu but this is what i got. Full load temp of 59c with it all Snapped on the right way. Then i tried it with out snapping it down so it was lose. Went up to 62c full load , so im not worried to much about the whole pressure thing

[Nanotherm]

OOh, don't do that... Latch that thing back on. Pressure does make a difference and you don't want to create an air gap in the thermal junction between the HSF and CPU. You think the performance is poor now - just wait...

[Mr. Thompson]

You may want to read this. The thoughts Bill has outlined have been confirmed by Intel.