Phenom 9500 w/ MSI K9A2 Platinum

[KTE]

Pfft acts like a brick like the other one. Seems dead. I am guessing it hates my G. Skill and Mushkin ram. I've tried one stick of each separately with no dice. The G Skill is a 2GB DDR 2 800 stick rated to work with 1.85-1.9v.

I tried it with an Agena 9600 and then with a Orleans 3000+. I've connected it to; Fortron 700 GLN, PC P&C 510 SLi and Seasonic 650 HT. I've tried a single X800XL and a single HD 3850.

I tried it in the case and on the box it came in. I've tried it with the case power switch and a jumper on the power pins.

I am not buying more ram just to toy with this 99usd mobo. Perhaps I'll try Gigabyte. Guess my AMD adventure is over for a while. I am putting my HD 3850s back in BX2 rig. F this, I don't need the headache.

Relax

But I understand what it feels like and why you'd wanna throw it away. I was very fed up with this system too and I believe its the MB/BIOS support. And no doubt I was thinking of getting the Gigabyte DQ6 to try becuase then it'll show me fully if the problem was Phenom or K9A2. Like those saw who moved from DFI to GBT. Benched 2.85GHz 1.3V for 6 hour with no errors whatsoever at least 4 times in 3 weeks, ran consistently more than 14 hours per day at 2.64-2.75GHz 1.232V every day and now cannot boot plus 2.42GHz with 1.6V 7 days later. Talk about consistency.

[Blacklash]

Yeah I have no idea what is up. I've built quite a few 939 and Intel rigs in the past without issues.

I may try to troubleshoot it more later. The only other thing I could imagine that might cause it to not come on would be if the fan on the HSF they sent me is dead.

I really hate to buy more ram for a finicky budget mobo.

[Swanie]

Thanks for the link KTE. Went to bed last night as started fresh this morning. New developments: Before i read your post i tried different ram( Hynix) and guess what it booted with all set on default. Then i boot with one dimm and select Dimm volt of 2.2 and tried but no luck. At 2.2 volt with divider set to 1.1.66 (667) the pc boots and run ok. Not happy about this. Your advice now needed -do i throw this memory away and get something else?

[KTE]

Yeah I have no idea what is up. I've built quite a few 939 and Intel rigs in the past without issues.

I may try to troubleshoot it more later. The only other thing I could imagine that might cause it to not come on would be if the fan on the HSF they sent me is dead.

I really hate to buy more ram for a finicky budget mobo.

Does the fan spin with power? You can remove the CPU and test it, it should spin.
Have you tried an open benchtop build with minimum components?

Thanks for the link KTE. Went to bed last night as started fresh this morning. New developments: Before i read your post i tried different ram( Hynix) and guess what it booted with all set on default. Then i boot with one dimm and select Dimm volt of 2.2 and tried but no luck. At 2.2 volt with divider set to 1.1.66 (667) the pc boots and run ok. Not happy about this. Your advice now needed -do i throw this memory away and get something else?

When you said "then I boot with one dimm..." do you mean the same Hynix RAM or the Mushkin?
Your Mushkin RAM is rated for 2.2-2.35V and I'm thinking the CPU Mem volt problem might be kicking in here.

What happens if you try a bootup at 2.3V on the Mushkin RAM (1 stick installed - swap slots around too just to check)?

What happens if you try and give CPU ~1.35V and RAM 2.2/2.3V, does it boot?

Sorry to hear of these issues. I know users absolutely dread 'em.

[KTE]

BTW, if you want to bench then go for XP SP3. It's quicker.

.

[Swanie]

Well yes KTE i am starting to dread my change from the DFI to MSI but i will stick it out. OK i do get my pc to boot.etc with dimms in slots 1 and 2 after using these settings up to trrd as the rest i don't know where to get it.)
Now with Everest it showing only running in single channel? will try your setting.

CAS Latency Time - 5
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay - 5
DRAM RAS# Precharge - 5
Precharge Delay (tRAS) - 18
ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD) - 4
Rank Write to Read Delay - 11
Write to Precharge Delay - 14
Refresh to ACT Delay - 42
Read to Precharge Delay - 4
tRD - 8 to 10

Dram Voltage +0.2 to +0.4 (warrantied to +0.55 but we highly recommend active cooling over +0.4 (2.2V)
These Voltages might help with instability
FSB Overvoltage Control +0.1
MCH Overvoltage Control +0.1 to +0.3

[Swanie]

I got a real stupid question. On this board where must your GPU's go to run Crossfire. In slot 1 and 2 or 1 and 3?

[Brains1]

Great Post KTE

Been reading this one since november. I got my board on monday.

My System

Phenom 9500
2GBS Corsair Dominator XMS2-8500 5-5-5-15 2.15v
ATI 3850
Antec 500w Earthpower 80+


I can not get the system to post with more then one stick of ram in it. I have 4 of the same ram stick to try. I have 2 extra for another system.

I have tried jumping up the Memv to 2.1 but thats all I have tried. The bios on this guy has alot of options that i'm still unsure about.

Also do you think my powersupply has enough juice?

MSI said they only support Kingston.
Corsair said it's either the board or the powersupply

I think it's the board or the bios

My bios version is 1.1. Also does that bios really support 1066mhz yet?
Did mem86 test no problem when one stick installed. Tested all sticks
Thanks

Brain

Phenom runs pretty cool. 80F.
That 3850 gets pretty hot to the touch when IDLE

[KTE]

You know, it seems this should now be changed to "the official Phenom+DDR2 complaints thread".
I am surprised there are so many problems, basically every next person has RAM problems with the MSI board. I ran some testing and I figured it is very possible the RAM holds back OC. Not just the divider, but Phenom/BIOS having problems running higher spped RAM than around 400-450MHz. Because it's only then that it errors.

Well yes KTE i am starting to dread my change from the DFI to MSI but i will stick it out. OK i do get my pc to boot.etc with dimms in slots 1 and 2 after using these settings up to trrd as the rest i don't know where to get it.)
Now with Everest it showing only running in single channel? will try your setting.

EVEREST will always show single channel since each DCT is controlling a separate module. What does CPU-Z read? If it reads dual channel, it'll be in dual channel.

CAS Latency Time - 5
DRAM RAS# to CAS# Delay - 5
DRAM RAS# Precharge - 5
Precharge Delay (tRAS) - 18
ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD) - 4
Rank Write to Read Delay - 11
Write to Precharge Delay - 14
Refresh to ACT Delay - 42
Read to Precharge Delay - 4
tRD - 8 to 10

Dram Voltage +0.2 to +0.4 (warrantied to +0.55 but we highly recommend active cooling over +0.4 (2.2V)
These Voltages might help with instability
FSB Overvoltage Control +0.1
MCH Overvoltage Control +0.1 to +0.3

Try looking for tRFC in the BIOS (0,1,2,3) and change them to 196ns along with the above setting which are there (not all). See if you can bootup.

I got a real stupid question. On this board where must your GPU's go to run Crossfire. In slot 1 and 2 or 1 and 3?

Great Post KTE

Been reading this one since november. I got my board on monday.

My System

Phenom 9500
2GBS Corsair Dominator XMS2-8500 5-5-5-15 2.15v
ATI 3850
Antec 500w Earthpower 80+


I can not get the system to post with more then one stick of ram in it. I have 4 of the same ram stick to try. I have 2 extra for another system.

I have tried jumping up the Memv to 2.1 but thats all I have tried. The bios on this guy has alot of options that i'm still unsure about.

Try changing the RAM timings manually under Cell menu>Advanced DRAM Configuration> choose Unganged mode and "Both" for DRAM Timing Mode there. Then you'll be sent to a page where you can set the timings. Set them according to your RAM, i.e. 5-5-5-15 2T and tRFC 196ns for all. Keep a high tRC too just to see if it boots. Also let me know what the highest option for tRC you get.

The pics I posted may help you: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...90&postcount=6

For instance, you'll need to change the first option (CAS) to 5, 2nd to 5, 3rd to 5 and 5th 15.

Also do you think my powersupply has enough juice?

More than enough.

MSI said they only support Kingston.

That's lame.

I think it's the board or the bios

So do I.

My bios version is 1.1. Also does that bios really support 1066mhz yet?

Don't know since I've not seen anyone run DDR2-1066 on it yet despite many claims by MSI. I know I can't.

Phenom runs pretty cool. 80F.
That 3850 gets pretty hot to the touch when IDLE

Phenom runs cool, yep. Is your 3850 above around 42C idle?

Should be very cool stock as a matter of fact, but it does depend on which version it is to some extent.

You're all welcome guys. (and girls )

[Starscream]

the inner struggle gets bigger and bigger cause everyday the price on the 9500 Phenom drops.
i wann buy one but i also wanna wait till Q1.

atm 150 euro for a boxed 9500 and 125ish for a MSI mobo.
Even if they wont overclock like a q6600 those are stil kickass prices.

[KTE]

atm 150 euro for a boxed 9500 and 125ish for a MSI mobo.

Both have fallen around 40% in price compared to what my uncles work place had paid for them early November. And yet, they'll definitely drop more with new year sales/higher stock/towards B3 release. Price for the package starts to become very exceptional IF they can get these RAM/BIOS issues sorted. No one wants these headaches in a build, really.

[Brains1]

Tried entering those. No post with 2 sticks.

Big Bummer


So checking my email

News from Cosair and MSI

QUOTE
In addition, we have sent an email to MSI to try and help you get a solution, but it looks like it might just be a BIOS issue. However can you tell me the revision of our modules it's on the lable?
(How To Read the Memory Label)
And what MB BIOS version do you have installed now?

EDIT:
We just got an email from MSI and there is indeed a BIOS comming that should fix that issue, according to the Sales manager of MSI and I quote
Quote:
As far as I knew, we will come up a bios shortly for EPP-1066/1200 memory which will resolve the DDR2-1066/1200 issues customer reported.

Should available next week.

END QUOTE


So Cool I suppose.

I should just get the system ready and after X-mas you get 2GB.

Thanks

[Starscream]

Both have fallen around 40% in price compared to what my uncles work place had paid for them early November. And yet, they'll definitely drop more with new year sales/higher stock/towards B3 release. Price for the package starts to become very exceptional IF they can get these RAM/BIOS issues sorted. No one wants these headaches in a build, really.

i myself think it will be 140ish tomorrow and before new year a low 140 or high 130.

but im waiting for better support (to many bios issues) and maybe some more 790FX boards.

Btw were are the Foxconn and Biostar offerings. Seeing Foxconn is trying to get foot in the highend motherboard market and how wel Biostars AM2 boards clocked i rly would love to see their AM2+ boards. Or are both of them gonna be Nvidia only?

[Blacklash]

Does the fan spin with power? You can remove the CPU and test it, it should spin.
Have you tried an open benchtop build with minimum components?

(

Yep that's the first thing I did. Vid card, CPU, one stick of ram. I tried all four ram slots at different times. It doesn't matter what PSU I connect to mobo it behaves like it's getting zero power. Utterly dead.

The mushkin is rated @ 1.9-2.1v and I've used one stick in single channel in four different motherboards with just 1.85v. The G skill should work unless the mobo has a problem with 2GB sticks.

There is nothing wrong with the wall socket there either. It is in use.

I am going to check the fan on the HSF on another motherboard because this one is not doing a thing. It acts as if it's getting no power, just like the other one did.

It's the ram, the fan or I've got two dead mobos in a row.

EDIT: It was the stock fan on the HSF. It was dead. I tried another fan and it fired up. Guess I will need to replace it sooner than later.

[KTE]

EDIT:
We just got an email from MSI and there is indeed a BIOS comming that should fix that issue, according to the Sales manager of MSI and I quote
Quote:
As far as I knew, we will come up a bios shortly for EPP-1066/1200 memory which will resolve the DDR2-1066/1200 issues customer reported.

Should available next week.

END QUOTE


So Cool I suppose.

I should just get the system ready and after X-mas you get 2GB.

Thanks

Ah there you go mate! Good news at last but one thing it does do is tell us the truth from someone in charge who knows a thing or two: MSI's problem not anyone elses.

Pity I'd probably have sold the Phenom by then. Actually I already have just not dropped it off to mates house yet.

i myself think it will be 140ish tomorrow and before new year a low 140 or high 130.

but im waiting for better support (to many bios issues) and maybe some more 790FX boards.

Btw were are the Foxconn and Biostar offerings.

Phenom has had problems and MB many reasons:
a) To tweak, test and learn of others' issues some MFGs always hold out and delay their products. More testing is always better, you can see this with XFX's boards/gfx many times.
b) To come out with a good compromise with component features and overclocking as well as to increase hardware support (which is lacking on DFI/MSI boards)
c) Phenom needs 8Mb BIOS (AM2+ boards) to properly have all options rather than the 4Mb on AM2 boards. This is a major problem for BIOS engineers to work around.
d) To make sure the errata/bugs have the workaround available.
e) AMD's new uarch is too different to AM2 so the BIOS cannot be like older simple "upgrades" and minor "changes" with any other platform. There has to be a lot more added specifiically first time and thus it has to be learnt well beforehand. The clocks for AM2+ are worked out completely different to AM2.

This'll take a while for them to get their heads around so much trial and testing is needed. The early boards will either compromise on features/oc/support or lose potential performance. So those delaying them should have something more solid coming.

EDIT: It was the stock fan on the HSF. It was dead. I tried another fan and it fired up. Guess I will need to replace it sooner than later.

Just what you'd never expect! Nice going though.

So when you replace the fan, does the system bootup?

[Swanie]

Thanks KTE. Yes also saw that in manual but the cards must be in the same color clots( dark blue) which are 16x(slots 1 & 3) , the lighter blue are 8x (slots 2 & 4) are to be used for "spider"/ 4x cards. My system is booting fine. If i run in ganged mode it shows dual channel . In CPU-Z my system shows no information under the memory tab. Running the 1.42 version. Now to start overclocking. One thing i can say the MSI now boots every time where with the DFI i had to retry 407 times.

[KTE]

Those blue slots are exactly what you need for Xfire, since they are the PCI-EX1 and PCI-EX4 slots mentioned above.

Dual channel is Unganged mode and Ganged mode is single channel.
Programs have problems detecting these facts since K10h works different to everything else.
The only one known to detect single/dual properly is CPU-Z. If it errors (this will be due to BIOS not being able to read RAM info), then I don't know what can at the moment.

[Swanie]

Thanks. Running the beta bios as indicated by you so don't know what up with CPU-Z.

[KTE]

It'll be based on your BIOS support for the RAM since when my BIOS could not pick up RAM info, CPU-Z failed to pick these up.

What does AOD BETA say?

[Swanie]

Well i busy overclocking my system and got to these..still work in progress. Only running 1 dimm as 2 giving issues .will check that later. KTE when i set anything under AM2+ p-state my system won't boot with the values supplied. Currently only overclocking with HT ref, voltages as supplied you ,ht link @ 8 x 1600.

[KTE]

That RAM is running single channel (can tell from bandwidth).

What NB multiplier did you chose? That is running NB multi 9x (05). Did you change it to 03?

[Swanie]

Well KTE only running one dimm. Did not set the multi of the NB all on auto

[KTE]

If you want to overclock properly i.e., get most MHz possible, then you'll have to drop NB speed down by lowering the NB multiplier.

Try changing it to 03 from BIOS and then oc. Nice going at 230x11 though, your CPU volts are still very near stock. I would advise you change volts through BIOS if you can before oc'ing, much better and will give you less problems.

[Swanie]

Well i can't touch anything under Am2+ p-state, i guess this is where i must set the nb multi?
Here some more benshes, now with duall channel memory.

[KTE]

Swanie, what do you mean you can't touch anything there?

Yep, the NB/CPU multi control is all there.