Phenom 9500 w/ MSI K9A2 Platinum

[KTE]

I told in the 5000+ BE 3.7GHz thread that I'll have some info today. I know informal and JS1234 were reading it.
Sorry guys, there's no way I can boot this thing up without safe mode. I dreaded trying it again this morning after 2 weeks. It's still quite pointless because I get nothing to go off, no error message, nothing.

I'm sure it's RAM. Setting to 1066 which is what my RAM is rated for means no POST. Also the bootup is the most weird I've ever seen (meaning the screens being shown). It shows a series of different screens. I cannot change any voltages or RAM settings in BIOS.

OverDrive doesn't install in Safe Mode.

Core runs very cool though, 23C Fx 2.0.0.9 browsing net w/Zalman 9700 at lowest fan setting (1500). 19C at the highest setting. Open bench but no other system fan running and I'm sitting next to a heater. 25% total core load is pulling 174W VAC at 82% efficiency with 2 SATA II 7200 HDs+1 NB fan+Sapphire HD 2600 XT+2x1GB RAM+MB=> which is 143W DC.

A quick bandwidth test showed no details but the memory read was 5423MB/s in EVEREST Ultimate 4.20 1183. It's probably running at DDR2-800 5-5-5-15 unganged mode.

Here's some safe mode screenshots for now. Just look at how buggy CPU-Z is in there.







Oh and play nice. Let's keep on-topic and by that I mean don't trash Intel or AMD in my thread apart from something without blind fanboism, exaggeration or emotional agenda. Because I couldn't care less who is making my product, facts are always facts and what goes up has to come down... They are just devices we use for a purpose. I will test it as much as I can on chillled 0C air and 25C ambient once the isues are sorted, so you can analyze the situation without being lopsided.

Discussion, help and useful inquiry or input is always welcome from Intel or AMD users. This is just about testing retail Phenom 9500. Thanks.

==================
Adding Useful Phenom Tools

• [1] Disable and Enable TLB Errata Patch by XS member sam2008 (one-click or auto, supports XP/Vista 32bit/64bit)
• [2] K10Calc by XS member lukija (A64Info developer)
• [3] Prime 95 25.6 (beta)

Look over here [1] and here [2][3] for a quick explanation.

[JumpingJack]

KTE -- I can understand your troubleshooting to the memory, are you using the latest BIOS ?? Is the latest BIOS the one that shipped with the board?

[KTE]

There's only one BIOS so far Jack.

This is what is causing my reboot loop: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/330182

It looks like a driver causing the reboots then because MSI says my devices are tested compatible. I really do hate troubleshooting driver problems. I'm going to just run Windows Repair instead.

[v0dka]

Only safe mode so far. That points in the direction of a software problem I think. I assume you have done a clean windows install?

And like Jack says, BIOS ofcourse.

[JumpingJack]

There's only one BIOS so far Jack.

This is what is causing my reboot loop: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/330182

It looks like a driver causing the reboots then because MSI says my devices are tested compatible. I really do hate troubleshooting driver problems. I'm going to just run Windows Repair instead.

Good find.... I have had 2 or 3 builds in the past couple of years where I had a silly problem, and ultimately it was a google followed knowledge base hit, then a "Geunuine Advantage" button click to download something critical.

It has gotten to the point now that if I have a boot up problem I simply search the MS konwledge base ....

The most recent one was the 4 Gig memory problem, catch this... a 64-bit CPU with 64-bit Vista and 2 gigs... slap 2 more gigs in for 4 gigs, BSOD... problem, Vista obscure USB sys driver and DMA conflict imagine that

There are still some bugs to work out I am sure... I have not had any experience with MSI boards myself.

[KTE]

Thanks guys. I got it sorted=> another clean install.

I tried Vista Ultimate 32-bit and 64-bit for 2 weeks. It was one problem after another go so I'm only testing XP or Linux now.

BIOS is now working for RAM/voltages. So beware when you get no boot on the 790FX, it's probably because of the RAM as it was being set to 1.90V 800 5-5-5-18 when mine is rated for 2.2V 1066 5-5-5-15 and it was running in single channel mode.

You can definitely fit 4 GPU's on this board, they provide two xfire bridges too although no RAM fans are installable if your cooler is same size, a little smaller or bigger than the Zalman CNPS9700.. it's tight fit in there.

Board design is excellent IMO though. Runs very cool.

Here's some quick phone pics (main cam pics have to wait for driver/software)

Phenom 9500 HD9500WCGDBOX CAAZB 2.2GHz (Zalman CNPS9700 LED)
MSI K9A2 Platinum
2x1GB Crucial Ballsitix Tracer PC2-8500
Sapphire HD 2600 XT
2x SATA II WD Caviar SE 80GB
Seasonic S12II 330W...
(2x spare 220CFM and 1x spare 152CFM delta fan if need be)



Official BIOS v1.0 (no AM2+ P-States) and v1.1 (exactly as below):
Make sure to read the far right hand-side column in the pics to see what options are available under each heading

MAIN BIOS MENU:


Individual Menu's:

Standard CMOS Features:


Advanced BIOS Features:


Integrated Peripherals:


Power Management Setup:


H/W Monitor (main monitoring page):


Cell Menu (main overclocking page [scant compared to 680i/P35/X38 - EDIT: far better with new BIOSes]:


Lowest choosable FSB, FSB/DRAM, Voltage, HT Link and HT ref. values (auto sets lower voltages):


Max choosable FSB/DRAM, Voltage and HT Link and HT ref. values:


Sub-Menu's:

Custom AM2+ P-States:


Advanced DRAM Configuration:


Choosing "Both" above lets you manually set timings for both DIMM:


Chip is rated 1.232V - BIOS VCore is 1.232V, Windows is 1.232V-1.240V and AMD OverDrive reports it as 1.250V.

OverDrive doesn't detect core tempertures and won't let you change VCore.
It also is very finicky and will BSOD/freeze your system quite a bit, even just by clicking tabs.

Multi as you know is forward locked at 11.

Stock bootup was like this:


Stock EVEREST memory bandwidth:


Stock EVEREST latency:


5 minute stability test at lowest fan RPM (ambient ~16C):


Stock idle full system power usage (PSU is ~81-85% efficient at 240VAC between 100-300W DC)


Stock Prime95 4-core loaded after 5 mins, In-Large FFT power draw:


It topped out at 181W VAC and hovered around 177-174W VAC, which at 83% efficiency would be 144-147W DC power draw.

To compare: that's 8-10W DC higher than the same system with P35 motherboard, one HDD and an E6750 stock volts at 3GHz, same test. Will test it after work and some sleep now.

[KTE]

BTW, those timings, speeds and DCT modes are wrong. I'll set them correctly and then see what difference it makes.

[Andi64]

KTE, do you know how to change HTT multiplier? I'm stuck at 5X, and I can't go any higher than 250Mhz.

It's stable at 250*13 1.4V, but a no go with 300*10 1.6V, not even post screen.
I'm running an F3, waiting for Phenom prices to drop.


Edit:
I can't run AMD Overdrive, it locks my system even at stock speeds.

[freeloader]

Excellent power draw for that system. Have you had a chance to use the AMD overdrive feature to see what type of speeds can be reached from your chip?

[xVeinx]

When these boards were tested in Tahoe, how is it that ppl tested these boards, including overclocking? Every board has bugs, no question there. It's just that I wonder why those bioses that worked then wouldn't be released to the consumer. It kinda sucks when someone buys something that won't even boot up. Heck, even the AM2 boards seemed to run more smoothly then this, all things being considered...

Those latency numbers are nice though. If you can improve the ram settings, then the bandwidth should increase significantly.

[Andi64]

Yep... it's buggy... but I love it.
I like it more than my Q6600 @ 3.6Ghz / MSI Neo2 FR ;D

[informal]

KTE,amazing work
Your review is very appreciated !
When you get to OC part,try raising (a bit) voltage for HT links and raising the PCI-e bus speed,some people i know reported that it helped them gain a few more Mhz from HTT.HTT limit on 9500 model hits hard in 240-250 range.We need a better BIOS versions for all 790 mobos.

Good luck and keep it coming

[EvilBellyLint]

Yes, thanks for sharing your trials & tribulations

Hopefully my MSI 790FX will arrive next week so I can join
the fray Keep the updates comin!


EBL

[kazgirl]

Hi there KTE,

I notice that your HT Multi is at x5, and I was under the impression that the default HT Multi on the 790FX with Phenom was supposed to be x9, I'm sure I seen this elsewhere....

At the moment isnt it running at the old HT standard rather than the new HT 3.0....???

I'm just curiuous,..... I'm stuck waiting on a BIOS fix for my M2N32SLI, which is stuck on a HT MUlti of x1 giving HT speed of 200MHz.... also having the RAM problems with the current BIOS as well.... it wont accept any changes to the RAM, to set it at 2.2v...

Did you have to update the BIOS to get it to change the RAM settings, or did the clean install sort it out...???.....

Thanks and great work so far...

[flippin_waffles]

When these boards were tested in Tahoe, how is it that ppl tested these boards, including overclocking? Every board has bugs, no question there. It's just that I wonder why those bioses that worked then wouldn't be released to the consumer. It kinda sucks when someone buys something that won't even boot up. Heck, even the AM2 boards seemed to run more smoothly then this, all things being considered...

Yeah, it's all very strange. Just before AMDPhenom was banned, he managed to increase his NB clocks, but never got to post the results. It's odd that these results haven't been posted on any other forum around the net that I can see. Sounds like the fella has been around a while, and surely this isn't the only enthusiast forum he's aware of. It's almost as if these results are trying to be hidden. Although I see no logical reason for AMD to do such a thing, other than the obvious Osbourne affect. How would a powerhouse Phenom affect the sales of X2's? And would there be enough supply to meet the demand of such a chip...?

/conspiracy theory off...

[vengance_01]

Nice work. Looking forward to more info.

[justapost]

Thx for sharing your results, especially those affecting the wattage. Do you have a 89W and/or a 125W TDP AM2 CPU for idle comparison?
My 9500 will arrive tomorrow, M3A will arrive early in December, so ill play with M2A-VM HDMI first.

[PhilDoc]

Thanks KTE, as usual your posts are greatly appreciated.

Looking forward to more results.

[JS1234]

Nice info KTE!

So you couldnt get the 5000 BE working on that board?

[Jeff]

Just another "Thank you"... make sure to keep us posted.

[KTE]

Thank you very much all for the comments & feedback.

I will address all of you individually the post after this one.

Firstly, let me make it clear: if you are used to easy changing three numbers in BIOS, and booting up from 2GHz to 3.5GHz as with C2D then you can forget about overclocking this system. This is the hardest system to oc that I've ever seen since Pentium I 75MHz. So if you are impatient, used to Core 2 or new to overclocking, you will give up without a single MHz ad say "it doesn't OC at all!!!" I'm not kidding, I did it too.

It is VERY very very very bloody difficult, mind boggling, confusing and frustrating to figure it out -> what is happening.

*I cannot change a single value in OverDrive. It will freeze the system up there and then!

*BIOS is very bad. I cannot chnage ANY voltages or performance settings, it will fail POST 99% of the time.

Why do I say BIOS? Because it's definitely not the CPU itself.

*RAM settings cannot be changed so I have to leave it default how it boots. That's 1.9V and my RAM has trouble at those volts, so settings are VERY high.

*Single Channel only.

*1T works.

*I cannot change any multi. HT is default as I saw it.

*Hundreds of issues. I don't know whether it's the 790 chip or the board itself.

Overclocking killed my drive and I've had to reinstall WIndows again.

What did I get? Well, let's say if the issues of the board/BIOS chip can get resolved I am sure around 3.2GHz is possible on air.

Some screenshots so far: everything on stock settings and stock volts! apart from HT speed. HT set in BIOS and bootup.

1.232V VCore / 1.9V VDIMM

1T:




RAM auto 5-5-5-12:






Some CPU-Z validations:
2310MHz = http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=275235
2398MHz = http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=275236
2420MHz = http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=275232
2486MHz = http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=275233
2508MHz = http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=275238
Max saved today: 2585MHz = http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=275239

Franck, what in the world is this? http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=275234#

Beta.

That's all for now. Stock volts max bootup was 336x11 = 2596 but I was on a roll and rebooted before capturing and the system never booted up again.

-99% of the time the system will not boot even if HT or anything in BIOS is changed by one. No way.
-I could bench 2.6GHz easily if it boots up. Not a single BSOD yet. Problem is not CPU but BIOS/board not booting.
-2.5GHz is rock stable. I could bench anything at it. Stock 1300RPM CNPS9700 fan temps were 23C idle, 34C 5 min load.
-Power draw at 2.6GHz was 117W VAC idle and 201W VAC full load (however it was too unstable to get Prime95 past 3 minutes on core 2).

Power draw at 2585MHz (CNQ disabled)

Idle 98-101W (at 83% efficiency = ~83W DC



Load 199-200W (at 83% efficiency = ~166W DC



Didn't have other software installed to bench.

Cheers.

[JumpingJack]

Wowwwzer ... massive amount of work and many thanks.

Overclocking killed my drive and I've had to reinstall WIndows again.

Did this occur because it locked up during boot, or did it not get to boot, freeze and then no partition table? This is a bit worrisome depending on how it happened.

Jack

[KTE]

Get ready for length.

KTE, do you know how to change HTT multiplier? I'm stuck at 5X, and I can't go any higher than 250Mhz.

It's stable at 250*13 1.4V, but a no go with 300*10 1.6V, not even post screen.
I'm running an F3, waiting for Phenom prices to drop.

Not tried yet. I just about managed bootup.

Multi was auto on mine from BIOS. I'll mess about with NB and HT tomorrow. What makes it unstable is the NB frequency IMO. Use the method tictac posted to change NB frequency, it might work and get you more stability.

Edit:
I can't run AMD Overdrive, it locks my system even at stock speeds.

Yep its very buggy. The ironic thing is when you change to "Advanced Mode" it says non-verbatim "changing to this mode may freeze your system or render it unusbale"

Excellent utility! But I just wish it worked.

Excellent power draw for that system. Have you had a chance to use the AMD overdrive feature to see what type of speeds can be reached from your chip?

See above. But yeah, chip power draw is very good, I'm impressed. However, once you increase volts it jumps very quickly. IIRC 1.48V VCore 2585MHz was iding 33C and power draw was around 122W-144W AC idle.

When these boards were tested in Tahoe, how is it that ppl tested these boards, including overclocking? Every board has bugs, no question there. It's just that I wonder why those bioses that worked then wouldn't be released to the consumer. It kinda sucks when someone buys something that won't even boot up. Heck, even the AM2 boards seemed to run more smoothly then this, all things being considered...

That's what I mean. They were all on a BETA BIOS that's for sure. Plus their chip was no better than mine.

Those latency numbers are nice though. If you can improve the ram settings, then the bandwidth should increase significantly.

Can get 7000MB/s read in EVEREST by just changing RAM timings, single channel (according to everything) at low speeds.

Yep... it's buggy... but I love it.
I like it more than my Q6600 @ 3.6Ghz / MSI Neo2 FR ;D

This is more of a challenge but those expecting ease and no issues won't like it. C2 is very easy to throw up to 4-4.2GHz if your board/chip can do the high FSB.

KTE,amazing work
Your review is very appreciated !
When you get to OC part,try raising (a bit) voltage for HT links and raising the PCI-e bus speed,some people i know reported that it helped them gain a few more Mhz from HTT.HTT limit on 9500 model hits hard in 240-250 range.We need a better BIOS versions for all 790 mobos.

Cheers mate. However even at stock everything, if I change the PCIe speed, it will not POST.

Yes, thanks for sharing your trials & tribulations

Hopefully my MSI 790FX will arrive next week so I can join
the fray Keep the updates comin!

EBL

Thanks. Just take it easy, and by that I mean 2MHz HT at a time.

Hi there KTE,

I notice that your HT Multi is at x5, and I was under the impression that the default HT Multi on the 790FX with Phenom was supposed to be x9, I'm sure I seen this elsewhere....

Hi. It should be faster than this AFAIK. BIOS problems. My ol uncle passed me this board/chip on 15th Nov but my first bootup had problems then and there's no change in that yet.

At the moment isnt it running at the old HT standard rather than the new HT 3.0....???

Yep.

I'm just curiuous,..... I'm stuck waiting on a BIOS fix for my M2N32SLI, which is stuck on a HT MUlti of x1 giving HT speed of 200MHz.... also having the RAM problems with the current BIOS as well.... it wont accept any changes to the RAM, to set it at 2.2v...

Same here. If your RAM needs high volts to boot up, you probably will never get past POST because BIOS is setting them at 1.9V. A lot of RAM won't pass that, luckily mine could do 560Mhz at those volts if I keep latencies high.

Did you have to update the BIOS to get it to change the RAM settings, or did the clean install sort it out...???.....

Nope, same shipped BIOS dated October. I'll send them my problems outlined today and see what they say. I'm just very busy with work and everything ATM. Thanks.

Yeah, it's all very strange. Just before AMDPhenom was banned, he managed to increase his NB clocks, but never got to post the results. It's odd that these results haven't been posted on any other forum around the net that I can see. Sounds like the fella has been around a while, and surely this isn't the only enthusiast forum he's aware of. It's almost as if these results are trying to be hidden. Although I see no logical reason for AMD to do such a thing, other than the obvious Osbourne affect. How would a powerhouse Phenom affect the sales of X2's? And would there be enough supply to meet the demand of such a chip...?

/conspiracy theory off...

If you want 100% in-lab stability, then you have to increase volts and that makes this chips TDP rise pretty quick. Compare my results: 19C idle at 1.232V and 33C idle at 1.48V.

Nice work. Looking forward to more info.

Cheers.

excuseme.
I don't understand. ( i'm speak english very little )

Have you overclock ?

if yes, what is your maximum frequency ?
can you increase the voltage by bios ?
i'm very interested to your CPU overclock's capacity.

Nope cannot increase any voltages (only once it worked). BIOS problems.

Thx for sharing your results, especially those affecting the wattage. Do you have a 89W and/or a 125W TDP AM2 CPU for idle comparison?
My 9500 will arrive tomorrow, M3A will arrive early in December, so ill play with M2A-VM HDMI first.

Have an E6750 I measured at different speeds/volts and also have a 5000+ BE I've not measured yet. Power draw so far is pretty good but I'm waiting to see what happens as you raise VCore/VNB/VHT. Good luck with your setup, you'll neeed it.

Thanks KTE, as usual your posts are greatly appreciated.

Looking forward to more results.

Thank you mate. Will post more when I get time. These are my first attempts at a very buggy BIOS, so they won't be final at all.

Nice info KTE!

So you couldnt get the 5000 BE working on that board?

Cheers. It worked fine. Booted up once to check but changed to 9500 straight after. Will test that soon.

look me your maximum overclock !

Max oc is not possible yet. Need many BIOS issues resolved first.

Just another "Thank you"... make sure to keep us posted.

Thank you too mate.

Wowwwzer ... massive amount of work and many thanks.

...

Did this occur because it locked up during boot, or did it not get to boot, freeze and then no partition table? This is a bit worrisome depending on how it happened.

Cheers Jack.

It happened when I set VCore to 1.485V, NB to 1.350V, HT to 1.25V and RAM 1:2 at 4-5-5-5-12 2.3V at 300HTx11...

It boots up but no picture (POST). But then when I restarted at default values it started up but all my files including Windows files, directories and saved pictures did not open up. Windows read "the system cannot find the specified file". I lost some pics and CPU-Z valids like that, but luckily some survived.

BTW I benched 2486MHz because at that time I was meant to leave on an errand and didn't expect any more. Now that I know it can go higher, I'll bench it at 2.5GHz and more if it allows changing HT again. Hours and hours of trial, reboots, no POST, lockups and BIOS value changing from default is needed though, it 'aint simple at all.

[informal]

KTE ,
Another "thank you" just wouldn't be enough to describe how much we all appreciate all this hard work you've done with your rig.
I'm very sorry about your problems with BIOS at the moment and also too bad for the lost data on your HD .We need these board/Bios problems fixed yesterday(and AMD should really spank some of it's "partners" for this pathetic BIOS support;also in the process they should spank themselves for letting it come to this )
Just minutes ago,i finished reading this conclusion of Neoseeker OC report.Maybe it could help you somehow(but i doubt it since they used MSI K9A2 mobo,which seemed a bit more easy on the BIOS tweaking part than your board)

Good luck man,and job well done

[Blacklash]

So should I wait for a second revision of Phenom to build my AMD rig or are these going to OC fine once the mobo BIOS situation is squared away?

I don't want to get a chip that can't even make 2.6.