The CDT and copywaza lab

[hipro5]

Come on you guys.....Noone with C2D to test at 3600MHz?....Were have you gone?...

[dduckquack]

no available hardware atm

[T_M]

KTE, do you use registry's LargeSystemCache=1 ?.....

The reg tweak? Thats there by default on every run, even on the 47m ones.

see above.

As for testing it, im too busy atm trying to catch your Ultra 3D'06 score to worry about Pi George :P

[KTE]

Yep. These are the standard registry settings I use on that OS (pagefile has been changed back again though).



I'm in redundant mode for at least a week now. Will see what I can do after that.

What's a very good (full tweaked/copywaza) 32M time for C2D 3600MHz? (specify FSB/board/RAM timings/divider/speed as well please)

[hipro5]

see above.

As for testing it, im too busy atm trying to catch your Ultra 3D'06 score to worry about Pi George :P

Which one?.....the LOW 214xx one or my "other one"...... ?......

[mrlobber]

What's a very good (full tweaked/copywaza) 32M time for C2D 3600MHz? (specify FSB/board/RAM timings/divider/speed as well please)

You can look in the Superpi low clock challenge thread, but this thread @ OCX imho is much better structured and contains the Holy Grail - teh uber OPB 3.6Ghz CDT run (12m39s) as well

[T_M]

I had suspected you have an "other one", but for the time being your 21.4 will do me.
At least if i do catch it let me have a WR for 24hrs please

[hipro5]

I had suspected you have an "other one", but for the time being your 21.4 will do me.
At least if i do catch it let me have a WR for 24hrs please

OK.....NO worries......I'm bluffing.....I got no "other" one....

[KTE]

You can look in the Superpi low clock challenge thread, but this thread @ OCX imho is much better structured and contains the Holy Grail - teh uber OPB 3.6Ghz CDT run (12m39s) as well

Thanks.

That's more of a $$$ hardware competition than Super Pi tweak contest. Different clocks, different latencies, different straps, different boards, different CPUs, different RAM, different volts even different DDR - everythings just different apart from CPU clock speed. I'm not going to waste cash on buying hardware like that now with Phenom around the corner, having sold my old, that's for sure. But no promises, I may have a C2D build by sometime next week at the earliest.

Guys will need to run their C2D at 3600, ≤500 RAM speed, Y latencies, normal 24/7 usable volts, which you can reproduce at least 3 times, the best time you get and others can then have a crack at that as well to compare with different tweaks what times they are capable of. Then we can test the tweak and not just another number competition because I won't be doing that, simply put, no matter what the outcome. Otherwise I find nothing to compare to yet but the absolute fastest numbers which I won't be doing.

A tweak can get gains at ANY speed and latency over a no-tweak. Once you can find you get gains at low GHz you can increase it for your comps and get more .. later.

[Zeus]

Having a C2D running 32M with the memory running <500Mhz will give dull results, system will be bottlenecked and tweaks might not take full effect as the system is starved for bandwidth imho.

I think 9x514 at 1:1 with 4-4-4 timings on a P35 platform won't be that hard, bare quadcores perhaps.

Even better result will show with 5:6 or 4:5 divider but that's something not everybody can do at 4-4-4 timings but at 5-5-5 again it will not be xtremely hard if you have some half decent memory.

[mrlobber]

You can look at the middle of the pack - 514x7 with 1:1 ratio on ram is easily done on air and just about on any E6600 and non-value DDR2 configuration - that's what I'm also using on my so far unsuccessful CDT C2D testing.

400x9 1:1 would be an even better choice, of course (for "everyones availability").

[KTE]

Having a C2D running 32M with the memory running <500Mhz will give dull results, system will be bottlenecked and tweaks might not take full effect as the system is starved for bandwidth imho.

I understand where you're coming from, but if C2D gives a "dull result" at 3600/1000, then you can say the same thing about the Celeron bro. Its more than crap at 3360/400. Do you think I would get more CDT gains if I went higher up in clock speeds? My honest opinion is no, the extra would be clock speed gains.

Let me re-iterate what I'm saying: I didn't say "I'm going to get the best time" with that Celeron because I was not going to run the volts/latencies/speeds others who chose to compete in a competition will - others at higher clocks, lower latencies, better chipset, higher volts, same hardware will beat those times.
However, I did say "with that setup and those timings/clocks/volts, you won't even come close to the best time on that hardware until you do CDT".

Testing a tweak has absolutely nothing to do with the maximum best time with your maximum best clocks, thats for you guys like before, Onepagebook (etc) in their competing. Testing a tweak is about how much the tweak makes a difference in SPi. I 'aint running a horse race here but only trying to replicate "what effect CDT has on SPI". Only testing I need to do is:

At the same clocks, same everything, no CDT vs CDT > what is the time difference?
At the same clocks, same everything, no CW vs CW > what is the time difference?

I ran an old Celeron, it made gains unforeseen previously. I also have a P4 that I can run later. But now even I'm curious to see if C2D gains anything. But please try to understand, spending $800 "at impulse" as a uni student on a scholarship in a different country is not something we do, especially when we can't make our money back.

And BTW. Maybe someone didn't understand what I hinted to before.
Yesterday evening around 6pm I found out that the lady I loved for 7 years, who was everything to me my friends and family will tell you, fiancee for 9 months, marriage was set to be in December.. was killed in a car crash on the 29th in the US. So I'm not in the best of moods, honestly. Its a bit hard to put a smiley up. I just don't want you to think I'm ignoring your responses.

[hipro5]

Keep in mind that different tweaks that used with old hardware and they WORKED GREAT, now with the C2D CPUs, ain't THAT good anymore or they do nothing.....Keep this in your mind for start......

EDIT: No shi(f)t..!......I JUST read the last sentences KTE......
BAD....BAD things happening.....

[mrlobber]

KTE, sorry for you man

[Zeus]

First of all, my condelances, that's more than just sad.

Without trying to be rude, wheter you're out on getting the best time or not is not the issue here, we're still talking the effect of this tweak.

I'm pointing out that if a system is starved for bandwidth, a tweak that gives a boost in data throughput for example will be executed with the handbrake on if you know what i mean.

Running 32M at 3.6GHz with 400FSB does well on a 965 chipset board (dividers are a must of course) but try this on a P35 based board and you'll be limited due to the "low" FSB speed.

Once limited on FSB, tightening the memory timings and subtimings does nothing untill one starts raising the FSB, gains wil reappear, from my own experience at least.

This is just an example and i don't know if this is relevant for the CDT tweak but i'd be rather safe than sorry.

That's why i suggested 514x7 1:1 which should be doable with 4-4-4 timings for 90&#37; of the C2D owners around here.

Like Hipro said, some tweaks yield better results on older or other hardware, this C2D stuff might have a different way to handle system memory, sytem cache and pagefile than older stuff, hence different result outputs.

Not saying this is a fact but it's a possibilty one have to take into consideration.

[KTE]

True. Its always a likely possibility. We'll have to see.

Already got three parts (2xsame drives/2x1GB RAM/PSU). Probably get the next two as soon as I get a phone call from the main man himself. Been told its an E6850 and P5K-E WiFi but I don't know yet for sure.

It's OK. But I tell ya what... love hurts -> deeper than deeep itself. Man I would've sold myself for her ah!

[andre X_X]

Presscot and Core Technology is totally different. thus, the same tweak will have diffrent result....

[KTE]

Perfect.

Two boards I'm offered; P5K-E WiFi and P5K Premium Black Pearl.

Just checked and both boards don't have the VGA port I need for the work CRT I'll be using neither the PS/2 keyboard/mouse there. Doesn't look like I can get another board. Only other option is GA-965P-DS3.

Presscot and Core Technology is totally different. thus, the same tweak will have diffrent result....

We know they're both totally different but it didn't make a difference when using CopyWaza, did it? Inconclusive is the more accurate term here. Maybe a few seconds drop is still possible even though it is not as good but I expect a 4-15 second drop even still. That's for you C2D owners to test.

[mrlobber]

Presscot and Core Technology is totally different. thus, the same tweak will have diffrent result....

Well, that's the obvious thing we all know so let's keep focusing on the discussion of results (if we have them)

[Monstru]

First of all my condelances KTE, there are moments in a man's life when you are really hurt and stripped of all you thought you will never loose. Keep your head up man, even if that is one of the worst things that can happen to a man

Second, congratulations for your test, they are really inspiring and when I get the free time I will try your tests on a C2D and see if it works for me. If it does, that that's a great deal my friend. The only thing is that I cannot get hipro's words out of my mind, regardind tweaks on Yorkfield

The last thing.... I saw that you guys are talking about the HDD's used and I see that you are not using the best HDD possible to maximize and level your results. I did a test about the impact the HDD has in SuperPi here and it was confirmed to my what everybody knows allready, that the HDD's speed and cache really matters. It also revealed something weird for me, the fact that RamDisk doesn't work better than a Raptor and that RamDisk works different depending on what HDD you are using (and I find this discovery to be very weird).

Dfi Infinity P965-S
E6600 400x8
2x1gb Mushkin XP6400 4-4-3-10 @ 800 4-4-4-10 2T
WinXP SP2 with unnecessary services, let's say basic tweaked. No CW, no CDT, no "special" tweak at all.

Seagate Barracuda 80Gb | 7200.7 ST380011A ATA133 2Mb Buffer

Seagate Barracuda 250Gb | 7200.10 ST3250410AS Sata II 16Mb Buffer

Western Digital Raptor 74Gb | WD740ADFD-00NLR1 Sata 16Mb Buffer 10000rpm

I ran Spi 1M and Spi 4M 5 times on each HDD and RamDisk to get an ideea about how a medium result looks. I only posted the best 3 times.

Seagate ATA133:

Spi1M : 14.203, 14.187, 14.188
Spi1M : 14.187, 14.172, 14.188 - RamDisk
Spi4M : 1.20.125, 1.20.125, 1.20.125
Spi4M : 1.20.047, 1.20.078, 1.20.078 - RamDisk

Seagate Sata II

Spi1M : 14.187, 14.157, 14.156
Spi1M : 14.157, 14.172, 14.156 - RamDisk
Spi4M : 1.19.985, 1.19.906, 1.19.969
Spi4M : 1.20.063, 1.20.015, 1.20.047 - RamDisk

WD Raptor Sata

Spi1M : 14.156, 14.156, 14.156
Spi1M : 14.157, 14.172, 14.156 - RamDisk
Spi4M : 1.19.984, 1.19.906, 1.19.969
Spi4M : 1.19.953, 1.19.968, 1.19.969 - RamDisk

What I got was the Raptor's might in Spi 4M and continuity in it's results. Maybe that is the HDD to use for testing tweaks, giving very similar result most of the time.
I hope I am not off-topic, I thought that you might find this little piece of information useful in your testing. If it is not please delete

Good luck with your testing, I am sure that there are lots of us waiting to see where this story is going to.

[Zeus]

KTE, what do you mean by VGA port?

If you're looking for a high-end LGA 775 board with onboard videocard you'll be hard pressed i reckon, just the cheapest PCI-E videocard will do in your case.

Monstru, thanks for your test results but the only suprise is that ramdisk isn't any faster than any harddisk.

Raptor has the lowest acces time, probably due to being a 10K rpm disk, every single read and write action SuperPi will do to the harddisk will be delayed to the lowest possible level by using a harddisk with low accestime.

Remember the temp files SuperPi is creating in the SuperPi folder after each calculation?

[Monstru]

Raptor has the lowest acces time, probably due to being a 10K rpm disk, every single read and write action SuperPi will do to the harddisk will be delayed to the lowest possible level by using a harddisk with low accestime.

Sorry, I don't understand correctly, you are saying that Raptor gets the worst or the best time in Spi???

[Zeus]

Most likely the best result due to low accestime.

The higher the accestime , the higher the delay --> slower calculationtime.

Low accestime means less calculationtime wasted by having to wait to acces the harddisk.

Raptor has a very low accestime, probably one of the lowest of all Sata harddisks around atm.

[hipro5]

Most likely the best result due to low accestime.

The higher the accestime , the higher the delay --> slower calculationtime.

Low accestime means less calculationtime wasted by having to wait to acces the harddisk.

Raptor has a very low accestime, probably one of the lowest of all Sata harddisks around atm.

There MUST be something else because how do you explain that with Gigabyte iRAM with a access latency = 0 , the 32M is WORSE than a regular HD....?.....

[Zeus]

There MUST be something else because how do you explain that with Gigabyte iRAM with a access latency = 0 , the 32M is WORSE than a regular HD....?.....

Do you have the SuperPi folder on your iRAM?

How much worse is it? Within error margin or really a couple of seconds or more off?