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Thread: The CDT and copywaza lab

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    The CDT and copywaza lab

    The original CDT thread went way off topic so I thought it would be a good idea to make a clean start. Please see this thread as a place to share your results and findings of all sorts of copy waza variations. All discussions in regards to the authors and comments calling somebodies tweak bullshut will be removed.
    Please keep it nice and friendly or else....

  2. #2
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    OPB's tweak which helped him to do the
    Thread on Coolaler forums: http://forum.coolaler.com/showthread.php?p=1889672
    Seems like a very good find, but does it work for everyone? Does anyone have the theoretical explanation?

    __________________________________________________ ____________________

    1st step:
    - Make the pagefile exactly 512~512mb under the partition you place super pi 1.5mod.
    - Make a new folder named whatever you like , make 3 files which size can be about { 600m(628666368)--->maxmem (I set), and pplus 32m..}x 3

    2nd step:
    - Use winrar to make the single rar files ...so it will be smaller or equal to 2gb, if you fail during compress....you know your setting ddefinitely haas problem on it.
    - Run the window of super pi 32m (or even 1m) set the size you wanna run...and leave the dialogue there.

    3rd step:
    - Cut this rar file and paste @ C:/ for 3 timess.

    ** check with task manager for the available memory size...so let the system idle for at least :

    20seconds for 1m
    45 second for 32m

    1m need to be greater than 460m

    suggestion from OPB..:
    you will need to do above BEFORE you use setfsb or clockgen to OC your FSB and change your memory parameters from memset.

    Good luck.
    **you also can use cut-paste -copy ...this is what I will try to do the experiment with CDT-V

    the file is like this...
    632m(about) need 3 of them...no ned to be exactly, but need to be only 3..
    cuz not like you stated above..that would do it like 6 or more...that would completely mess the sequential compress action up.

    when you run super pi, you need to choose size right?
    after you choose , the dialogue will show:

    "now start to calculate"
    just stop there and do whatever need to do

    reason:
    cuz at that moment, you system has about to prepare some elements need to running super pi size you set...very important.

    you cut the file , your ram is tempoarily store that img some address,
    certainly you always cut from D to c..I did say from where you place the super pi folder right?

    so after you paste on c...right click your mouse...can you do one more...two again?...
    it will ask you "overwrite it..."
    ok ..you need one folder.. only one for entire CDT-IV

    why ? becuase you need to make it into a rar files..
    so only ...ONLY make a folder ..and you will need to find 3 files are about 632m( 600m+32m is the hint for thinking why..but doesn NOT have to be 600+32..(I can have 598+34? right?...)

    so the best way is you only make it once for 632mb for instance, then copy it into the folderright? then re-name the original to othername and copy into that folder...so now your folder has how much? 1264mb? so the one remain out side the folder still 632mb right?
    so rename again and "cut it and paste into that folder...
    now, if you install winrar already, right click that folder, and make a whatever name of the rar file...there we go, after done...you know what to do...

    **All this way above is NOT must do like this...it's only one of the 1000 ways...to form you a 1.8g~2.0gb single rar file....

    but why I give the hint for 3x(600mb+32mb) to form that single rar?...haha..

    **************************

    for everyone:
    if you wanna integrate Copy-waza, please, after you do Cut and paste , copy from c to D and then you will need to paste @ d over-write for 2 times..., you will get the most surprised result.

    here we go for elementry scool dialogue



    will post real procedure during making this.

    during the initial small file make up:



    1st step completed; First C.I formed
    2nd step initializing:
    see that difference between available memory and system cache?



    then...
    ** Anti-derevitive?lol 3 times from wherever to D


    Finalize the final step of CDT-iv...Cut...(Dereivitive in calculus?)



    the final step, idle and let system balance, close the task manager and you're redy to go.



    EDIT: massman your post is a bit confusing, i removed some free spaces and comments in regards to the tweaks author :P
    And i hope you dont mind if i replace the pics with thumbnails since they are quite large -Saaya
    Last edited by massman; 10-30-2007 at 07:34 AM.
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    My way of doing it.

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    massman you mind want to reword that post of yours and give it some more structure, its quite messy and doesnt have a clear step by step instruction on what to do. Theres just step 1, step 2 and then dozens and dozens of paragraphs and a couple of screenshots

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    Quote Originally Posted by saaya View Post
    massman you mind want to reword that post of yours and give it some more structure, its quite messy and doesnt have a clear step by step instruction on what to do. Theres just step 1, step 2 and then dozens and dozens of paragraphs and a couple of screenshots
    It sure looks a lot cleaner now
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    Quote Originally Posted by massman View Post
    It sure looks a lot cleaner now
    yeah but you should make it an easy step by step guide, otherwise there will be tons of misunderstandings and everybody will do things diferently... which is what happened in the last thread.
    The problem is that while sorting everything you might mix up something or misunderstand something which then results in the tweak not working... thats the problem with kevin not being a native english speaker and not being available to clear those possible misunderstandsing. But imo you should at least give it a try and maybe ask kevin if he can read it through and let you know if you made any mistakes.

  7. #7
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    Yep, clear step by step would be nice, otherwise its quite messy and hard to understand all details

    This is what I understood best and was posted by Elmor obviously:

    This tweak definitely works!

    Pics up soon.

    edit:

    System specs, just straight boot didn't editing any timings:


    Then just run without cw/cdt:


    And with the previous OPB CDT I learned from him:


    Now, how about with this new OPB CDT-IV tweak:


    Wow, how about that? I just shaved of 16 seconds of a SPI 32M round!

    I'll explain exactly how I did it as some have some trouble understandning how to do this tweak.

    First you will need to set your maxmem to 600 (I used 620 which worked good aswell, though I belive the file 600+32MB is 600MB = avaliable ram and the extra 32MB is because of pi 32M calculation, am I right Kevin?) and also I believe it is very important to have a 512-512MB big pagefile on the SPI-partition (D: in my and Kevins case). Ok, now the instructions:

    1. I created 1x 632mb file using the command "fsutil file createnew D:\myfile 647168000" (1000*1024*632) for a file of exactly 632MB.
    2. Then I put it in a RAR-archive with the Store Compression method for no compression.
    3. After that I renamed it to myfile2 and then myfile3 and after each rename add it to the RAR-archive with the Store option so that you get a 1896MB big RAR-archive.
    4. Then I transfered it to my benchdisk with an USB flashdisk (I created the file on my laptop) and put it on SPI-partition (D:\file.rar).
    5. Now you start SPI and select 32M calculation and press OK, but don't press OK to start it, let it wait there.
    6. After that you copy it three times to C:\file.rar and the two other times you have to overwrite of course.
    7. Next you copy D:\file.rar to any folder on D:\, for me it was D:\cw\, three times just like you did to C:\ before.
    8. Now, as Kevin says, to balance it you copy the file C:\file.rar to D:\file.rar and overwrite it. I did it three times and I saw the ammount Avaliable memory raise each time.
    9. Now you can close the Taskmanager if you had it open for monitoring and all the other windows not related to SPI and now you can start your calculation!

    Hope this writeup helps you understand Kevins outstanding tweak better, I can only imagine what it takes to be able to find this tweak out.

    BTW, I didn't get the Avaliable memory and System cache balanced so System cache was about 2MB more. If I can get those two balanced maybe even more gain is possible.




    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...1&postcount=31
    ...

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    First a basic qs guys :

    Why is that Windows Task Manager in post#2 showing 613932KB installed (total available memory to OS) whilst 1GB would show as +1000000KB?

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    Quote Originally Posted by KTE View Post
    First a basic qs guys :

    Why is that Windows Task Manager in post#2 showing 613932KB installed (total available memory to OS) whilst 1GB would show as +1000000KB?
    Thats what it would/does look like after applying a MAXMEM of 600MB

    MSConfig-> Boot.ini-> Advanced options-> Maxmem
    Quote Originally Posted by T_M View Post
    Not sure i totally follow anything you said, but regardless of that you helped me come up with a very good idea....
    Quote Originally Posted by soundood View Post
    you sigged that?

    why?
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    From the testing i've done, using CDT, Available RAM + System cache are improved in comparison to Copy-Waza but it isnt translating into a better SPi time for me.

    I think its very possible, seeing as Copy-Waza boosts the Avail + Sys Cache and gives a better SuperPi time, that the tweak works, but im doing something wrong.

    After copy-waza:

    Available RAM: 459808
    Sys Cache: 531288

    After CDT:

    Available RAM: 550000
    Sys Cache: 555596


    MAXMEM set to 600 (giving 613932KB in task manager)

    Original Copy-Waza file was a copy of the original F.E.A.R. demo (636MB,) and was copied from a 2nd HDD onto Windows partition.
    Last edited by K404; 10-30-2007 at 09:11 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by T_M View Post
    Not sure i totally follow anything you said, but regardless of that you helped me come up with a very good idea....
    Quote Originally Posted by soundood View Post
    you sigged that?

    why?
    ______

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by K404 View Post
    Thats what it would/does look like after applying a MAXMEM of 600MB

    MSConfig-> Boot.ini-> Advanced options-> Maxmem
    Excellent. Means my Maxmem is not working for some odd reason. It's a fudged install so new one coming up tonight it seems.

    Quote Originally Posted by K404 View Post
    MAXMEM set to 600 (giving 613932KB in task manager)
    Fixed.

  13. #13
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    K....M..... close enough!

    Cheers
    Quote Originally Posted by T_M View Post
    Not sure i totally follow anything you said, but regardless of that you helped me come up with a very good idea....
    Quote Originally Posted by soundood View Post
    you sigged that?

    why?
    ______

    Sometimes, it's not your time. Sometimes, you have to make it your time. Sometimes, it can ONLY be your time.

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    I tried maxmem 600 instead of 680, gain seems to be similiar.
    Same method used as in my first post here. files copied to the same hdd on my desktop.
    edit
    it seems 680 is better then 600 for 632kb file.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by BeardyMan; 10-30-2007 at 11:17 AM.

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    Beardy, i don't think you can compare AMD to Intel, it has a different way of utilizing the memory so gains from a tweak that frees up memory and systemcache will be different i guess.

    I remember how i gained a couple of tenth's in 1M with my old socket 939 Opty with CW, for this C2D setup CW does nothing for 1M.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    Beardy, i don't think you can compare AMD to Intel, it has a different way of utilizing the memory so gains from a tweak that frees up memory and systemcache will be different i guess.

    I remember how i gained a couple of tenth's in 1M with my old socket 939 Opty with CW, for this C2D setup CW does nothing for 1M.
    I know, but we are here to share thoughts wheter it works or not for ourselfs
    I just went true allot of settings on maxmem and i'm quite sure that 680 gives teh lowest time although when setting 735 i get almost 1sec gain, yet it's time is higher then 680.
    Strange

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    Just a suggestion guys, but maybe whether this tweak works or not could be related to ram timings or sub-timings?

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    Im really interested to find out the theory behind the cache/memory tweaks, why does it help SuperPI and what does balancing it and using maxmem actually achieve.
    That would be better for me than just blindly testing/following tweaks.

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    No Mr. Stevil at least not that big.

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    OK, I've managed to run a session of experimental testing on an older P4 Celeron I have here - which is the only built system lying around here apart from 2 work laptops.

    I ran 8M instead of 32M because at 3300-3600MHz the C2D 32M time is equivalent to this chip at 8M (and.. it fracking takes 47m for 32M ). So you get a good idea of the SAME time period (you can equivocate seconds better i.e., between 10-15minutes the drop in time from a tweak is the most similar overall percentage to everyone else's)

    If there is any gain in any method, this will show it purely simple for me.

    I tested ALL the tweaks separately to see WHICH one gains or loses and which one gains most.

    -Without Maxmem.
    -With Pagefile 250-1000MB
    -With Maxmem 600MB (working).
    -With Pagefile 512-512MB
    -Completely stripped OS (XP Pro SP2 32bit 14 processes 118MB startup)
    I followed George's method for CopyWazza testing (but left pagefile constant at 512-512MB for accuracy).
    I followed Elmors method for CDT testing.
    I tried another tweak which maximizes RAM as I normally do separately.

    Before this I was totally "speculative" and "skeptic" as anyone unbiased would be.

    Let me say one thing clear now:

    CDT works

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    Quote Originally Posted by KTE View Post
    Let me say one thing clear now:

    CDT works
    That was known previously as well Can you elaborate, how much you gained with CDT vs copywaza?
    away & gone

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    Quote Originally Posted by STEvil View Post
    Just a suggestion guys, but maybe whether this tweak works or not could be related to ram timings or sub-timings?
    I think it has a lot more to do with one partitioned hdd or two seperate ones, position of the pagefile and things like that.

    I even wonder if cut-paste or copy-paste makes a difference.

    Is there somebody who can explain why the rar files consist 3x632mb rar file? There must be a reason why it is created like this rather than making a 1.8-2.0GB file out of pics or other files?
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    So what exactly do those tweaks do?
    they memory content is pushed to the pagefile, so onto the hdd, which frees up extra system memory to be used for the pi calculations?
    As a result less of the calculation results of the benchmarks need to be moved to the pagefile cause the memory is full? How big are the files that the pi benchmark creates during a 32m run? I dont mean how many files overall but how many files and of what size does the benchmark create that need to remain buffered to create the final result?

    How exactly does the pi app work?
    it creates temp files in memory?
    Are they deleted or ready to be deleted once the iteration finished?
    Does the pi app overwrite its older temp files or keeps going up and up memory address wise until the mem is full and then even writes temp files to the pagefile on the hdd?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    I think it has a lot more to do with one partitioned hdd or two seperate ones, position of the pagefile and things like that.

    I even wonder if cut-paste or copy-paste makes a difference.

    Is there somebody who can explain why the rar files consist 3x632mb rar file? There must be a reason why it is created like this rather than making a 1.8-2.0GB file out of pics or other files?
    I will let you have all the answer, buddy, YGPM,
    looks like someone start picking agin

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by saaya View Post
    So what exactly do those tweaks do?
    they memory content is pushed to the pagefile, so onto the hdd, which frees up extra system memory to be used for the pi calculations?
    As a result less of the calculation results of the benchmarks need to be moved to the pagefile cause the memory is full? How big are the files that the pi benchmark creates during a 32m run? I dont mean how many files overall but how many files and of what size does the benchmark create that need to remain buffered to create the final result?

    How exactly does the pi app work?
    it creates temp files in memory?
    Are they deleted or ready to be deleted once the iteration finished?
    Does the pi app overwrite its older temp files or keeps going up and up memory address wise until the mem is full and then even writes temp files to the pagefile on the hdd?
    SuperPi will use the HDD as storage if there is not enough memory, so by doing copy-waza, you free up the rams. 632 seems to be related to the maxmem 600 and 32MB (kinda obvious). 632MB is exactly the size of what a 32M runs needs, so by clearing up the matrix of the memory (where the data is stored), you make place for the data of the 32M run.

    i'm not sure at all about this .

    By the way, when copying the files, you should notice that when you copy from D -> C it'll be much slower than when you copy back to D. Why? Pagefile?
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