Phildoc,
Savantu said 65nm soi clocks like s**t. I believe him. 3.7Ghz on 65nm-must be fake.
Phildoc,
Savantu said 65nm soi clocks like s**t. I believe him. 3.7Ghz on 65nm-must be fake.
I know its about 45nm, but SOI is part of the equations and how they do with 65nm is also part of it. The 3.7G is real just look at the AMD forum and you can read all about it.
Here just to save you some time. http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=253783
Last edited by PhilDoc; 10-25-2007 at 10:51 AM.
And compared to competitors it is what?
SOI today is a big bleeding wound on AMD. It was the chance they took. Bulk vs SOI is an easy question for 45nm and down. At 130nm and 90nm it was another ballgame.
I personally dont like AMDs work with IBM on this area. IBM tends to go exotic rather than practical in many cases. And there just aint room for that with a fierce competition. Specially not when you are also with your head down in the mud.
Last edited by Shintai; 10-25-2007 at 12:03 PM.
Crunching for Comrades and the Common good of the People.
Those 2 things aren't exclusive.
Individual OCs say virtually nothing about what AMD can crank out of the 65nm process.
AMD's 65nm process was optimized for low power , not speed.As a result 65nm K8 isn't able to match 90nm K8 in top frequency , at least not yet( probably never will ) .
As a rule of thumb a shrink is able to do 20% better than the previous process size at the same power.
3-3.2GHz 90nm 125w -> 3.6-3.8GHz 65nm 125w
AMD is stuck at under 2.8GHz.
See more here :http://www.eetimes.com/showArticle.j...leID=196701745Interestingly, this first application of 65-nm technology was designed not to improve performance over the previous, 90-nm Athlon, but to reduce power consumption.
The tradeoffs involved in keeping leakage under control = slow transistors speed , difficult to reach higher frequencies.
Dirk Meyer says something interesting :IMO , they cover the flaws of the process with the design of the chip , as to minimize them. ( same as Thoroughbred days , they added more layers , etc )The issue has been simply one of tuning the design to the technology so as to support a high volume ramp.
K10 has excellent power usage when running at low speed , once you crank up the speed the power usage goes through the rough ( slower , thicker transistors need more voltage , remember the 1.52V 2.5GHz sample ? ).
Hmm.
Are CPU transistors realy so different from GPU ones?
New Radeons 38x0 will be 55 nm.
Isnt it at least a bit simmilar?
gpus arnt produced by amd fabs, they are produced by TSMC or UMC, which use a different tech.
Savantu,you can't expect that uarchitecture that was originally designed for 90nm process and introed at 130nm to scale up to 3.6-3.8Ghz at 65nm.It isn't only the process that matters,but as D.Mayer recently said (about K10),"wedding the design to the process".
So no,nobody ever expected K8(in X2 variant even less!) to go to 3.6-3.8Ghz ,125W on 65nm process.There are other limitations in K8 that would come into play,it's not the process alone.
Crunching for Comrades and the Common good of the People.
Thats kinda funny.
They sure keep their share...and abit moreThe firm turned in net profits of NT$30.37 billion on revenue of NT$88.96 billion for its third quarter, which ended the 30th of September last. That gave TSMC a gross margin of 45.8 per cent and a net margin of 34.1 per cent.
And for those comparing it with Intel/AMD. Remember there is no chip R&D needed. And their fab volume is quite bigger.
Crunching for Comrades and the Common good of the People.
Yes,but those weren't as radical changes as pipeline changes would be(even K10 hasn't changed much in that respect) .AMD were sticking to the original plan and as you said,tweaked the design to the smaller node when it was possible to net further clock/power benefit.
I'm fully aware of that , however ,as ceteris paribus a shrink will offer some frequency gains.
I'm really interested to see what frequency will K10 reach since its pipeline is basically the same as K8.The sudden jump in power consumption from 2.3/2.4GHz to 2.5/2.6GHz is indicative of an inflexion point in the shmoo.
Agree
... But there is absolutelly nothing new: it is constant process, when next revision is faster then previous: 90nm F2 > F3, 65nm G1 > G2
I would say if you dont have years to make one final rev - it is the only way to tune it up eventially - from revision to revision.
Windows 8.1
Asus M4A87TD EVO + Phenom II X6 1055T @ 3900MHz + HD3850
APUs
All of this has(or at least should) happen during the design phase not after release. But i guess AMD would work on the design and process after release to improve clockspeed. If their 45nm is really as close as they state i doubt its worth putting any R&D into 65nm though. I'm also waiting to see how much they can gain from the use of SGOI if they get around to implementing it at 65nm after all. A 40% increase in electron mobility is quite a substantial improvement if it's true.
Last edited by BrowncoatGR; 10-26-2007 at 07:22 AM.
Seems we made our greatest error when we named it at the start
for though we called it "Human Nature" - it was cancer of the heart
CPU: AMD X3 720BE@ 3,4Ghz
Cooler: Xigmatek S1283(Terrible mounting system for AM2/3)
Motherboard: Gigabyte 790FXT-UD5P(F4) RAM: 2x 2GB OCZ DDR3 1600Mhz Gold 8-8-8-24
GPU:HD5850 1GB
PSU: Seasonic M12D 750W Case: Coolermaster HAF932(aka Dusty )
Main Components
QX9650 @ 4.5GHz | Asus Maximus Formula SE | HD3870 Crossfire | 2gb Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500
150gb Raptor X | 2x Hitachi 500gb | 2x Seagate 500gb
Silverstone TJ-07 | Coolermaster Real Power 1000w
EK Supreme | EK-FC3870 CF
Thermochill PA120.3 | Thermochill PA120.2
Swiftech MCP655
Still sure about that ?
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=163780
When you need >1.53V to get to 3GHz while a K8 on 65/90nm does it at under 1.4V , allow me to take your claim with a healthy dose of salt.
"To exist in this vast universe for a speck of time is the great gift of life. Our tiny sliver of time is our gift of life. It is our only life. The universe will go on, indifferent to our brief existence, but while we are here we touch not just part of that vastness, but also the lives around us. Life is the gift each of us has been given. Each life is our own and no one else's. It is precious beyond all counting. It is the greatest value we have. Cherish it for what it truly is."
was it BA or B2?
Bookmarks