AMD to start 45nm ramp in H1 2008

[GoThr3k]

“First, we are on track relative to having basic yields in place in our factories on material that we’re running today. We’re building 45nm microprocessors as we speak and those two facts give us increasing confidence in the public statements we’ve been making for some time around our intent to be starting our production ramp of 45nm processors in the first half of next year,” Mr. Meyer said.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/other/d...022211442.html

STRICTLY AMD ONLY PLEASE , ty to Zornundo for finding this as well

[perkam]

I'm not going to allow bashing of AMD of any kind or any sarcastic or tongue in cheek posts of anykind, or any fanboy comments for that matter.

Let's keep it clean.

I have a considerable amount of patience, but it has its limits, and considering that XS News is the second most updated and frequently visited section on XS, I would think people would like to keep their access to it.

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________________

Whats interesting here is that AMD does have plans to come out with an octal core around 2009, with one on MCM and a native octo core as well.

I'll try to post a roadmap of this when I can, though I'm hoping 45nm will bring some architecture changes as well, perhaps to lose that 3ghz barrier X(

Perkam

[Sup3rman]

I'll try to post a roadmap of this when I can, though I'm hoping 45nm will bring some architecture changes as well, perhaps to lose that 3ghz barrier X(
Perkam

AMD has not been able to bring their 65nm process to the same level as 90nm. AMD's high-end CPU are still manufactured on 90nm. The process shrink from 90 to 65nm has hindered clock speed. Why do you think the shrink from 65 to 45nm would help clock speed?

To date Barcelonas < 1.8GHz are rare; I have never seen a 2GHz for sell. I'm just wondering how you reason AMD going from, struggling to produce 2GHz(quad) @ 65nm to 3GHz(quad) @ 45nm is likely?

[perkam]

AMD has not been able to bring their 65nm process to the same level as 90nm. AMD's high-end CPU are still manufactured on 90nm. The process shrink from 90 to 65nm has hindered clock speed. Why do you think the shrink from 65 to 45nm would help clock speed?

To date Barcelonas < 1.8GHz are rare; I have never seen a 2GHz for sell. I'm just wondering how you reason AMD going from, struggling to produce 2GHz @ 65nm to 3GHz @ 45nm is likely?

Well I can't say much as it is, but retail Phenom X4s coming this November/December will reach current k8 speeds with ease.

Salvadar, no one's expecting these before 2009 as it is, which is fine by me as long as they improve steppings and yields on Barcelona throughout 2008.

Perkam

[Zytek_Fan]

Well I can't say much as it is, but retail Phenom X4s coming this November/December will reach current k8 speeds with ease.

Salvadar, no one's expecting these before 2009 as it is, which is fine by me as long as they improve steppings and yields on Barcelona throughout 2008.

Perkam

AMD should have an edge with 45nm as they and IBM have been working on 45nm for quite some time...

[Papu]

i cant wait , 2x3870's a Phemon(anom) in a sweeet new Am2+ mobo would be awesome.

even tho intel have top cpu's atm i'm diggin the cheap prices amd is sellin the 6000+ unlocked multi and such , it works out 80 euro cheaper than an e6600

gl amd , you'll need it

[Plywood99]

But bringing negative comments about Intel into an AMD thread is ok right? When this thread was originally "cleaned" it sure seemed that was what Perkam meant considering he was the one that originally brought Intel into the thread in a negative light, then through a hissy fit when people took him to task on it.



When the wishes of others, who happen to have the means to edit and delete threads, are wrought with hypocrisy then no, I don't respect that. There was NOTHING in this thread, in it's original form, that would warrant deleting all the posts. Bottom line.... you got called out and couldn't back up what you were saying. Great moderation. And with that I'm done. People here see what's going on and I've said my piece.

I read the whole thread before it was changed by Perkam. He said nothing wrong. Poncho you are acting like an idiot. Time would prove whether what Perkam said is true or not. Your coming into the thread with a clear trolling attitude is pathetic...

Anyway, here's to hoping Amd can get 45nm going well, they certainly need it...


Ply

[Periander6]

Well I can't say much as it is, but retail Phenom X4s coming this November/December will reach current k8 speeds with ease.

OK, I'll bite. Are you claiming that Phenom will come out this year with the 3.2GHz stock speeds, or are you talking about how well they will overclock?

[Zytek_Fan]

OK, I'll bite. Are you claiming that Phenom will come out this year with the 3.2GHz stock speeds, or are you talking about how well they will overclock?

Take it how you wish. I have full confidence that K10 can get up to that speed, but there is no evidence as to how well it will OC...

it'll be the same as with K8 Dual core and single (E6 venice cores were manchesters with 1 core disabled and E3 native single cores )

no chance amd gets enough "faulty" cores to supply a whole DC product line.

getting more and more interesting, and one side note:

65nm has surpassed 90nm with the ne G2 revision brisbane chips (used in be and 5000 black edition)

Yields should be pretty good, which is why I said AMD shouldn't have to sell many half dead X4s.

[Sparky]

@Bobsama, I thought that dual core Barcelona/Phenom was a standard dual core (maybe with some quads with 2 bad/disabled cores).

@Sup3rman, the shrink from 90nm to 65nm was just a shrink and yeah isn't yielding as good apparently as 90nm (though it has gotten much better). But if AMD has been putting more focus on 45nm that might be the reason why 65nm suffered some, they devoted more time/resources to getting 45nm perfected. Just throwing that out there as a possibility.

[bedlamite]

I don't understand a bit.
Does it mean they want to release first 45 nm CPUs on market in H1 2008 or they'll just start producing and release it in H2 2008/H1 2009?

[perkam]

I don't understand a bit.
Does it mean they want to release first 45 nm CPUs on market in H1 2008 or they'll just start producing and release it in H2 2008/H1 2009?

Ramp basically means they'll start equipping facilities for 45nm in Q1 2008 for production in q4 2008 and retail in q1 2009.

Perkam

[Salvador]

Fabtechs take.

AMD 45nm ramp revisited
Oct 22, 2007 at 10:26 AM


News from last week’s AMD conference call that told us the company would start production of 45nm microprocessors in the first half of 2008 shouldn’t be looked at from the point of view of ‘volume production.’ The message that should be taken from the news is that at some time in the first six months of next year, AMD may well have a small amount of devices entering the supply-chain.

...

AMD has one big advantage over Intel at the 45nm node, namely the ability to push out the adoption of high-k dielectrics and metal gates until the 32nm node due to the use of SOI wafers.

...

The 45nm migration should start ‘mid-year,’ but with new immersion tools required, both qualified and ramped, we would still expect ‘volume production’ to be in 2009, not 2008, with a significant amount of Fab 36 production switched to 45nm by 2Q09.

[Bobsama]

Will they ever make a dual-core Barcelona that doesn't rely on having two cores disabled? That'd be the first step towards making money.

[GoThr3k]

what i really dont understand
i know the benifits of SOI,your Cs and Cd decreases drammaticly and Id is increased about 30&#37;
=> so this should be good

But why is everyone having trouble with SOI then?
can someone please fill me in

[GoThr3k]

what i really dont understand
i know the benifits of SOI,your Cs and Cd decreases drammaticly and Id is increased about 30%
=> so this should be good

But why is everyone having trouble with SOI then?
can someone please fill me in

nobody cares to explain why SOI is so difficult on 45nm?

[Sparky]

nobody cares to explain why SOI is so difficult on 45nm?

Too technical for me to know or answer

[nn_step]

nobody cares to explain why SOI is so difficult on 45nm?

The primary barrier to SOI implementation is the drastic increase in substrate cost, which contributes an estimated 10 - 15% increase to total manufacturing costs but outside of that, there is little reason for difficulties outside of specific implementation details (Z-Ram for Example)

[GoThr3k]

The primary barrier to SOI implementation is the drastic increase in substrate cost, which contributes an estimated 10 - 15% increase to total manufacturing costs but outside of that, there is little reason for difficulties outside of specific implementation details (Z-Ram for Example)

so the use of SOI shouldnt be the reason for the high leakage on the 65nm parts?

[Hornet331]

nobody cares to explain why SOI is so difficult on 45nm?

savantu explained it/posted a link, but it got deleted...

[savantu]

savantu explained it/posted a link, but it got deleted...

..

Back on topic :

http://www.semiconductor.net/article/CA6464480.html

Bulk or SOI? AMD Considering Its Options

David Lammers, News Editor -- Semiconductor International, 7/31/2007 12:30:00 PM

Advanced Micro Devices (AMD, Sunnyvale, Calif.) is still mulling whether to use silicon on insulator (SOI) or bulk silicon technology for its future high-end and mobile products.

“This is in the exploratory phase, and AMD has not made any statements about when it would make a decision to produce next-generation processors in bulk or SOI,” a spokesman said, adding that AMD technologists are asking questions that “are not answered yet, so we are leaving the question open as they look at the issues.”

During a July 26 meeting, AMD executives described the company’s technology and product roadmaps. Doug Grose, senior vice president of manufacturing and supply chain management, said that AMD is “evaluating the mix” of SOI and bulk technologies for 2009 and beyond.....

As late as mid 2007 AMD was still debating what to do at the 45nm node and some think they will greatly reduce the process gap with Intel in 2008. LMAO

And for SOI challenges :

http://www.semiconductor.net/index.a...A6464480#69173

One of the major differences between the SOI and Bulk technology for the 45nm and beyond is to control the electostics or the short channel effects. For the bulk technology used by Intel the quantum confinement of carriers is controled by a combination of Hallow source/drain implant, and retrograded channel/substrate doping.

On the other hand, for the SOI technology the quantum confinement of carries in inversion layer is carried out by physically reducing the SOI thickness, Tsoi by narrowing the space between the gate oxide and the buried oxide. To mitigate the short channel effects, 45nm SOI may require 50nm~40nm Tsoi, 30nm~20nm Tsoi for 32nm, and 10nm or less Tsoi for 22nm technology. Such a thin Tsoi causes significant carrier mobility degradation and increase in threshold voltage, Vt. Furthermore, for the scaled devices, the strain induced mobility enhancement techniques become less effective.

This is particularly more so for the thin SOI technology simply because in such a thin ~10nm junction and isolation depths, and channel inversion layer thickness it is extremely difficult to implement GeSi S/D junctions and a large lattice mismatch induced by the relaxed Ge-Si substrate in the channel.

Even for the 45nm SOI technology, the manufacturability of the strain induced mobility enhancement techniques used for 90nm and 65nm may not be feasible. In this respect, the SOI technology for the 45nm and beyond has a significant disadvantage over the bulk technology. IBM and AMD are at the crossroad today to determine extenderability as well as manufacturability of the SOI technology for 45nm and beyond.

The conversion from the SOI to the bulk 45nm technology node has enormous technological and manufacturability challenges. This is because IBM and AMD do not have the required learning experiences such as process, design, reliability and device yield gained from the 90nm and 65nm bulk technology development and mannufacturing. Furthermore, two major new materials were introduced in the bulk 45nm technology: the thermal oxide, SiO2 that was used for 40 years is replaced by HfO2, and the polysilicon gate that was used for over 30 years is replaced by the metal gate.

Today Intel is the only company that is manufacturing the bulk 45nm. If that is true, Intel has enormous advantages over its competitors, particularly if IBM and AMD have to adopt the 45nm bulk technology. This is because Intel must have resolved most of the device, process, reliability, and manufacturability issues as a result of introduction of the new materials and processes.

When the new materials and processes like HfO2, metal gate, and their new processes are introduced, new or unknown faiure mechanisms will be also introduced. Therefore, it is crucial to design test structures so as to bring out the unknown failure mechanisms for early detection, and develop effective E-test and reliability test screens. Such experiences gained through the 90nm and 65nm bulk technology development cycles will give an edge to Intel in successful development of the 45nm technology and beyond.

[Zytek_Fan]

It's starting to look up for AMD

[happychappy]

It's starting to look up for AMD

About time

[perkam]

Positive and Negative about AMD are fine, as with other threads, lets just not invite the blue team over as this isn't about them

I have tried multiple times to ask Mr. Poncho, who happens to be an Intel employee, to mind his own business so as not to derail the thread with sarcastic and jeering posts but he doesn't seem to respond.

He is an intel employee after all and Fugger has such good relations with Intel, I can't forcefully throw him out, so there's little more I can do. Some people just can't respect the wishes of others.

@Bobsama, native dualcore k10 is codenamed Kuma and is coming end of q1 2008.

Perkam

[Donnie27]

Positive and Negative about AMD are fine, as with other threads, lets just not invite the blue team over as this isn't about them

I have tried multiple times to ask Mr. Poncho, who happens to be an Intel employee, to mind his own business so as not to derail the thread with sarcastic and jeering posts but he doesn't seem to respond.

He is an intel employee after all and Fugger has such good relations with Intel, I can't forcefully throw him out, so there's little more I can do. Some people just can't respect the wishes of others.

@Bobsama, native dualcore k10 is codenamed Kuma and is coming end of q1 2008.

Perkam

Honest question and not jeering. Will Kuma or Phenom X2 really be Native Dual Core or Phenom X4 with two dead cores? Seems to me that pressing out two and four core packages are counter productive given the failure rates of even good yields. We know both AMD and that other company has a propensity to lie and try to turn failure into triumph Look at what AMD said about Tri-Core or X3? The truth would have easily been accepted.

I hope I'm wrong but AMD will have to show me this improved Process. After the last two years their word (and many others BTW) is worthless IMHO. I hope like hell they get it right. Without Competition we'll sooner or later go back to the Days of X2 across the board high @$$ed prices. Simple Supply and Demand dictates that.