Gathering Radiator Thermal Testing Tools, now which fans?

[Martinm210]

I just opened up a new parcel today containing the last of my water heaters. First I decided on a smaller variac, and then I had hoped I could use the variac with an aquarium heater. I just tried out the heater with the variac and got a nice 0-300 watts of finely tuned heat load. Now between the three of them I can add 0-900 watts of heat to the pump heat dump and tinker with some thermal testing..


The water heaters will go in my custom 4" black PVC reservoir you see to the left in this picture, it should work pretty well I think.

I'm not going to bother with insulating lines and all that, I just want to record water/ambient deltas using my crystalfontz and Dallas probes. I figured that'll be good enough..

Now for the questions?

• Which Fans do I test with and at what voltage?
• What heat loads should I test at?

I was thinking about trying to match some common heat load values as I plot out the trend.
Maybe something like 100watts, 400, watts, 900 watts or something similar. Then if I plotted a trendline for that I could interpolate the 10C delta point. Maybe something less for single/double radiators??

Also not sure on the flow rate variable. Maybe I'll run all of the above at a fixed 1.5GPM, and then do one series of tests to see how the radiator reacts to varied flow rates..?

Open to suggestions, I havn't found any sort of standard for this type of testing, so I'm scratching my head as I go...

This should be fun..

Better start saving up for a few fans. I have a few yate loons sitting here, and three of the 86cfm panaflos, but nothing else. Seems some of the thermochill and swiftech testing used Nexxus fans which run at 1000 RPM. With yate loons being more popular, I think those are a giveme, but what else is really popular for radiators??

[Yeknom]

Scythe S-Flex maybe? Also, if you could get some Slip Streams, it could confirm Vapor's thoughts on them with rads.

[FuriousSalesman]

Is it ok suggest Yate Loon fans? I would also like to suggest Sanyo Denki fan's. My thought is the added price and availability of the fan isn't enough for the performance you get.

[Nate P.]

Maybe the Zalman FM-03's? They are great fans, I'm surprised they haven't been accepted by more people. They scored great in Vapor's testing, and I have six in the computer next to me. Excellent fans.

[Martinm210]

Thanks, I'm looking.

Might be a while before I round some up...I have a couple of unused yate loons sitting here and 3 of the medium speed panaflos, but that's it..

[Pedalmonkey]

what rads are you planning on testing? it would also be very cool to see how the flow rate in a system for each type of rad effects the wattage taken out of the liquid. soo many variables you could test, limitless combonations.

[LinusTech]

Martin - shoot me a PM. I may be able to arrange to sponsor you for some fans. (no guarantees yet though).

fans I'd recommend using:

Noctua NF-P12-1300 (best low noise high static pressure fans bar none)
Yate Loon med. speed fans.
some kind of horrible noisy thing.

[Martinm210]

what rads are you planning on testing? it would also be very cool to see how the flow rate in a system for each type of rad effects the wattage taken out of the liquid. soo many variables you could test, limitless combonations.

I've got a pair of 480GTXs, a PA120.3, MCR320, MCR220, Bonnie Heatercore, XSPC RS 120.3, 120.2, 120.1, and I have a source for potentially many more if I put in the effort to test them.

Yeah, I had figured on that too.

One thing I want to do for each fan combination is determine the 10C delta heatload point. I think I can do that easy enough, but just testing several heat loads and plotting the trendline. I have no idea if that trend is going to be linear or some sort of curve, but I could figure that out. And I would do all of this at a fixed 1.5GPM since that's probably average.

Then I thought I might run another series of tests to see the effects of flow rate. Maybe after I determine the 10C delta point I can apply that heat load and then run the test at .5, 1.5, 2.0, 3.0 GPM and plot that out.

But yeah, the variables can be overwhelming, so I'm going to have to keep it pretty simple or I'd get bored after just the first test..

[Martinm210]

Martin - shoot me a PM. I may be able to arrange to sponsor you for some fans. (no guarantees yet though).

fans I'd recommend using:

Noctua NF-P12-1300 (best low noise high static pressure fans bar none)
Yate Loon med. speed fans.
some kind of horrible noisy thing.

You have PM..

[starlon]

I'm glad to see some love for the Noctuas

[twwen2]

Saw the 480GTX in the list. It will be good to get some definative comparison testing done on the HWLabs rads, there's really not much out there atm.
If it's possible could you include a magicool extreme 360 slim profile (the same as BIX 360 i think?). They look good, but i've heard mixed reports about performance.
As for fans, probably one in each speed category (like cathar did in his fan tests). E.g 800, 1200 and 1600rpm. Maybe YL's and S-Flex's. They are widely used/accepted as being class leaders (S-Flex) or good value for money (YL).

Cheers Martin, you da best. Looking forward to the results in due time

[The[R]eaper]

+1 for the Scythe S-Flex series. i use the "F" model and they are very silent and push a good amount of air.

also maybe some high >100cfm fans, if you can. to see how much of a temp decrease there would be between the medium speed ones most of us use.

also if the noise/performance ratio is worth it.

by the way i greatly appreciate your testing martin. thanks

[ArtosDracon]

I'd say the listed noctuas, some scythe ultra kaze 2Ks, the ZM-F3 of course, some Delta TFB EH and some YL mediums. That should represent the best variety of fans. Of course som Sanaces if you can get your hands on some.

Seems to me that, to be completely thorough, these would have to be three part tests. Part 1 with fixed flow(air and water) but varying heat loads, Part 2 with fixed airflow and heatload but with varying water flow and Part 3 with fixed water flow and heatload but with varying fans. Once you did part one you could test parts 2 and 3 at the radiators most efficient heat load from part 1 so the deltas would be slightly exagerated but, also the most poinient.

EDIT: oh, and if you're not able to get a sponsor for fans, I have a few of the fans on my list that I'd be very happy to lend you as i'm not using most of them. I'd have to see how many I have full sets of 4 of though. I know I've got at least 4 ZM-F3s, I don't have any TFBs but, I do have atleast 4 of the Delta FFB 38mm, I don't think I have 4 of the same rpm ultra kazes but, I have three of the 3K rpms, no noctuas or YLs though.

[LogAn'sRun]

S-Flex seems logical, as it's a very popular fan.
If possible, I'd like to see the Minebea series in there as well, since it has been recommended over and over.

[rockqc]

+1 to the Ultra Kaze 2k.

[Xilikon]

IMHO, try to keep it close to other test beds so you will need 3 versions of fans. Use the popular ones so it would be easier for us to reference and my own pick would be those :

Noctua NF-P12 or Yate Loon D12SL or Scythe SFF12D/E for low speed
Yate Loon D12SM or Scythe SFF12F for medium speed
San Ace 1011 for high speed

See with NCIX what they can offer. I know they could provide the low and medium ones easily but not sure about the high one (must be over 100 CFM). Also, if you need some sponsor, count me in if others can't (I can give up to 50$)

[Vapor]

Noctua NF-P12-1300 (best low noise high static pressure fans bar none)
Yate Loon med. speed fans.

Unfortunately, testing is not gonna show much of a difference between these two....:-/ D12SM-12 is ~55CFM and the P12 is only a little behind. Both probably have similar radiator characteristics too.

I recommend the three S-Flexes at 12V. 800RPM, 1200RPM, and 1600RPM. Also throw in some Panaflo H1A's for ~100CFM.

You don't need the best of the best, just something that's easy to relate to for users.

[leo_bsb]

I would try the YL on slow, medium and high speed. These are cheaper and easy to compare.
I agree with a jet turbine like fan like the panaflo to compare the highest performance achievable.

[ArtosDracon]

Unfortunately, testing is not gonna show much of a difference between these two....:-/ D12SM-12 is ~55CFM and the P12 is only a little behind. Both probably have similar radiator characteristics too.

I recommend the three S-Flexes at 12V. 800RPM, 1200RPM, and 1600RPM. Also throw in some Panaflo H1A's for ~100CFM.

You don't need the best of the best, just something that's easy to relate to for users.

If anything this would make the most sense for actual testing. Everything else suggested is a pipe dream(my post included). If you wanted to throw some YLs at it they're pretty popular but, the three s-flexes listed should give a pretty good thermal variation depending on the radiator. I'm not a big fan of the H1As, don't even remember why though.

[Martinm210]

Thanks guys, lots of great recommendations, but I've been narrowing it down to these. Any thoughts between these?

Low Speed
Either
Yate Loon D12SL12s at 12V and 7V (47CFM + one setting lower)
or
Noctua NF P12-1300 at 12V and 7V (54CFM + one setting lower)

Medium Speed
Either
Yate Loon D12SH12s at 12V (88CFM type)
or
Scythe S-Flex SFF21F at 12V (67CFM)

High Speed
Either
Scythe Ultra Kaze at 12V (133 CFM)
or
Panaflo H1s at 12V (104 CFM)

Any thoughts?

I'm thinking the low speeds plus one undervolt for the silence guys, then the mediums and high speeds at 12V should cover the range pretty well?

[starlon]

I'd actually be interested in seeing a comparison between the silent fans.

[ArtosDracon]

Low Speed
Noctua NF P12-1300 at 12V and 7V (54CFM + one setting lower)

Medium Speed
Either
Scythe S-Flex SFF21F at 12V (67CFM)

High Speed
Either
Scythe Ultra Kaze at 12V (133 CFM)

IMHO. Though some Delta FFB1212EHE or TFB1212GHE would be kinda cool to see.

[Martinm210]

Are you saying you won't test the Noctuas if you have them in hand?

No, I'm good with either one, I just need to narrow down the number tested.

I'm tempted to just calculate the air pressure drop of the radiator, then if we had PQ curves for each fan you could calculate the actual air flow. I would need to picked up an anemometer and measured deltas relative to actual air flow to do that though..

That would probably the the more scientific way, but that would also mean we would need PQ curves or some other way of estimating actual air flow through the radiator depending on the fan.

I was just thinking past radiator testing usually just included a range of fans and called it good. It probably makes the most sense then to test with the most popular fans.

I havn't made any decision yet, just feeling out what people would prefer.

Whatever I end up doing, this is going to take some time to sort out a solid method and will take some experimenting.

[MorGo7h]

Make sure you test the Yate's because lots of ppl use them.

[Duh]

+1 noctua