Gray Mole and Noobzed Issue

[Wellcomef3-a]

What the hell is this going on? I get an email from Xtreme Systems.org and it sounds like I am personally being held responsible for whatever what went wrong or didn't go right between said members above. This is the email that I received:

Dear Wellcomef3-a,

noobzed has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - Gray Mole and Noobzed Issue - in the Builder/Customer Relations forum of XtremeSystems Forums.

This thread is located at:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...3&goto=newpost

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
so you back gray mole, so I hope you can ship me the two evaps you stole ? and the last 50€ you have to refund me ?

did you think I forgot you ? it is moderators that ask me to claim my goods, now almost in 2011
***************


There may also be other replies, but you will not receive any more notifications until you visit the forum again.

All the best,
XtremeSystems Forums

I do not take kindly to emails of this sort, I unsuscribed from this thread several years ago and all of a sudden I become subscribed to it by whom or how I do not know. All I can say on the matter is that when I spoke with Gray Mole several years ago with respect to him modifying my Mach II GT single stage phase change unit I found him to be very polite, of good character, honest, and eager to please. I did not have the work done because the sky fell in on the nursery rhyme character shortly after we discussed the modifications that needed doing and I believe that Gray Mole was having serious issues along marital lines or that his partner was gravely ill. I do not know for sure how or why his problems began but my assessment of him still stands.

And now I shall unsuscribe from this thread again and hope that the joker who resuscribed me to it has wet his pants with laughter and gets his foreskin stuck in the zip of his trousers after changing into different underpants.

Thank you and goodnight all.

[noobzed]

So, moderators, you let Gray Mole, evolve like this, without any consequences ? He can come back, and juste ignore his passed and all is ok ?
XS forums sounds good so ... Hope moderators are not so clement.

** You send me 500€, it was 550€. You sent me some screws, a plexi enclosure, but NOT the evaps, I paid $500+ to Ssilencer, how can you say all is ok ? Why did you left XS forums if you are a good guy ? Perhaps you had not stole not only me ... Who knows ? All cooling forum section ( maybe entire XS forum ) is watching you, and hope nobody 'll order you a unit.

** Why I came back here several years after, do you think 50€ il all for me, or a piece of copper, several years later, I have a daughter, a wife, and a good PC too, I just want everybody to know that you are a :

-Lier
-Stoler
-Bad worker
-Coward or lache

[Movieman]

So, moderators, you let Gray Mole, evolve like this, without any consequences ? He can come back, and juste ignore his passed and all is ok ?
XS forums sounds good so ... Hope moderators are not so clement.

** You send me 500€, it was 550€. You sent me some screws, a plexi enclosure, but NOT the evaps, I paid $500+ to Ssilencer, how can you say all is ok ? Why did you left XS forums if you are a good guy ? Perhaps you had not stole not only me ... Who knows ? All cooling forum section ( maybe entire XS forum ) is watching you, and hope nobody 'll order you a unit.

** Why I came back here several years after, do you think 50€ il all for me, or a piece of copper, several years later, I have a daughter, a wife, and a good PC too, I just want everybody to know that you are a :

-Lier
-Stoler
-Bad worker
-Coward or lache

It's being discussed.
Thank you for bringing this up.

[Gray Mole]

So, moderators, you let Gray Mole, evolve like this, without any consequences ? He can come back, and juste ignore his passed and all is ok ?
XS forums sounds good so ... Hope moderators are not so clement.

** You send me 500€, it was 550€. You sent me some screws, a plexi enclosure, but NOT the evaps, I paid $500+ to Ssilencer, how can you say all is ok ? Why did you left XS forums if you are a good guy ? Perhaps you had not stole not only me ... Who knows ? All cooling forum section ( maybe entire XS forum ) is watching you, and hope nobody 'll order you a unit.

** Why I came back here several years after, do you think 50€ il all for me, or a piece of copper, several years later, I have a daughter, a wife, and a good PC too, I just want everybody to know that you are a :

-Lier
-Stoler
-Bad worker
-Coward or lache

I came back because I missed the people here.

I owed you 500 euro and paid you. You then told me you wanted paypal charges covered, along with something else it cost you.

You told me you wanted the enclosures, so I sent them. You then told me you wanted the evaps as well, after you'd recieved the enclosures.

They came to me unbrazed, they were now part of a complete lineset and you weren't willing to pay anything for that work (or anything else)

I spent probably 100 hours on the brazing, the modification of the case (that ended up being scrapped) the working and reworking of the unit from changes you requested as it was being done.

So it cost me a case worth 100 euros. The copper and brazing rods, 40 euros. The other little things that got used up, maybe another 20 euros.

So the unit you ordered, then cancelled, cost me around 160 euros. Plus the hours I spent wasted.

You make it sound like I stole from you. Like I ripped you off. How is it that I was doing my part, doing a LOT more than my part (I never asked for more money for the extra work you kept requesting) and you cancelled the unit AFTER the work was put in, and I'M the one that's ripping you off?

Well I've lost my access to the classified section, likely due to your efforts.

Is that enough for you? Or is there something more you'd like to have done?

Any other 'business' would have told you that when this kind of custom work was 99% complete that you couldn't cancel. I let you, because you told me you were having a problem with money and could no longer afford it.

But having to deal with you on a daily basis was what drove me out of XS before. It's starting to sound like that's what will happen again.

I've never had to deal with Trolls before. Seems like that's what you're doing but maybe I'm wrong.

[Gray Mole]

I just wanted to say, since my posts in this particular 'issue' make it sound like I'm unwilling to bend, that this one isn't an issue I see as being 'ongoing'.

There are some people that ended up losing out a while back, some from my actions and some that were supposed to be dealt with by others and weren't. I've been trying to contact and deal with those, though some are unreachable and some don't want to have anything done.

Those are issues I'm working on, and will continue to work on until they are either sorted out, or avenues exhausted.

This is a bit different, since it is one that the 'customer' wanted back more than actually paid, after cancelling a unit that was labour intensive and nearly finished.

The full amount was paid back to him, and parts that weren't actually 'bolted down' were sent.

No money was given for the work that was done, nor the parts that were used and couldn't be re used.

I'm not sure what is 'fair' in situations like this, nor am I an expert on legal matters of this kind, but I feel that I did more than what was fair given the circumstances surrounding it.

Other situations where people weren't treated fairly will be resolved as such, but to me this is closed.


Gray

[Movieman]

I just wanted to say, since my posts in this particular 'issue' make it sound like I'm unwilling to bend, that this one isn't an issue I see as being 'ongoing'.

There are some people that ended up losing out a while back, some from my actions and some that were supposed to be dealt with by others and weren't. I've been trying to contact and deal with those, though some are unreachable and some don't want to have anything done.

Those are issues I'm working on, and will continue to work on until they are either sorted out, or avenues exhausted.

This is a bit different, since it is one that the 'customer' wanted back more than actually paid, after cancelling a unit that was labour intensive and nearly finished.

The full amount was paid back to him, and parts that weren't actually 'bolted down' were sent.

No money was given for the work that was done, nor the parts that were used and couldn't be re used.

I'm not sure what is 'fair' in situations like this, nor am I an expert on legal matters of this kind, but I feel that I did more than what was fair given the circumstances surrounding it.

Other situations where people weren't treated fairly will be resolved as such, but to me this is closed.


Gray

Just my thoughts on how situations like this can and should be prevented.
When you first "do the deal" It's up to you the seller to set the rules.
One is that you set a reasonable timeframe and stick to it.
Build in "fudge" time as we all know that things happen beyond our control.
Also the customer has to be told before he ever sends a dime that he doesn't have the option of cancelling the deal once money has been sent.
The money and I mean all of it should be paid up front.
Then discussion and I mean so that both sides know exactly what is to be built and none of this "Oh change this and change that" half way through.
I would also leave the shipping costs open till everything is done as they change so fast today.
If you stick with this then there are no issues.
Business is all about eliminating potential issues beforehand so that both parties are happy at the end.

[Gray Mole]

Just my thoughts on how situations like this can and should be prevented.
When you first "do the deal" It's up to you the seller to set the rules.
One is that you set a reasonable timeframe and stick to it.
Build in "fudge" time as we all know that things happen beyond our control.
Also the customer has to be told before he ever sends a dime that he doesn't have the option of cancelling the deal once money has been sent.
The money and I mean all of it should be paid up front.
Then discussion and I mean so that both sides know exactly what is to be built and none of this "Oh change this and change that" half way through.
I would also leave the shipping costs open till everything is done as they change so fast today.
If you stick with this then there are no issues.
Business is all about eliminating potential issues beforehand so that both parties are happy at the end.

Suppose you're right, and that's what I should have done back then.

Never minded being more flexible about things, and didn't really mind giving a full refund either, even though it was after so much time and materials spent.

Just hated the fact that no matter how much I gave, he just seemed to want more. Got to a point where I drew a line and that was it.

I don't (and won't) do any custom work anymore, other than maybe making a slight change on a unit I've already built and am selling. Custom work is pretty rewarding (more personally than financially) but it's led to things like this happening.

Sorry about the grief for the Admins, though.


Gray

[noobzed]

I paid WHOLE SET OF EVAPS, not only plexi enclosure and some screws, because this is that you sent me ! Not a single poor copper thing !
I let you with your life and your problems, I wanted just to say to everbody to not contact you for a build, I do not want money, I do not want evaps, I want nothing,
just I'm disappear and I remember well.
To conclude, I 'll try to take a screenshot of my paypal just to see what is the balance beetween what I paid and what you refund, I think it'll be funny

[noobzed]

You told me you wanted the enclosures, so I sent them. You then told me you wanted the evaps as well, after you'd recieved the enclosures.

They came to me unbrazed, they were now part of a complete lineset and you weren't willing to pay anything for that work (or anything else)

I said send me the whole evaps and enclosures, you sent only enclosures, but I can't proove it cause I have not the msn log ...
This is a joke ? You utilize for another unit ? The evaps I paid $529 you never sent me and you brazed to another unit ... not so funny

How many pictures you show me of the work ? Almost nothing man ... You see this admins ? The work was done at something like 20% ?
After weeks of waiting, what a joke ... So-called one of the best UK builder ... Do you kept the pics of this work ? If yes, show to eerybody, show it man, show your great work ... Before you started the job, I give you informations about what I wanted, I have not change so much during the build, I gave you my wishes BEFORE, about design and other things.

[Gray Mole]

I said send me the whole evaps and enclosures, you sent only enclosures, but I can't proove it cause I have not the msn log ...
This is a joke ? You utilize for another unit ? The evaps I paid $529 you never sent me and you brazed to another unit ... not so funny

How many pictures you show me of the work ? Almost nothing man ... You see this admins ? The work was done at something like 20% ?
After weeks of waiting, what a joke ... So-called one of the best UK builder ... Do you kept the pics of this work ? If yes, show to eerybody, show it man, show your great work ... Before you started the job, I give you informations about what I wanted, I have not change so much during the build, I gave you my wishes BEFORE, about design and other things.

I suppose you can say anyting you'd like.

The cooler was done, the case was modified and extended.

The line was changed twice.

The only thing the unit was waiting for was a controller that I can remember, and that was between you and Ssilencer.

The color was something you never seemed to be able to narrow down though. Black. Red. custom graphics. That seemed to be something you could never decide on.

The cooling part of the unit was done, load tested, ready. You know that.

The case was done, solid, and ready for whenever you decided what color it would be.

The @itor evaps are still here. I'm using them on the quad compressor unit because they're here. I never sold them or used them on anything I sold.

You're posting repeated because for some reason you think I tried to steal from you. I didn't, I tried to give you what I could to make you happy. That ended up being impossible.

I have no intention of giving you more than you gave me to build a unit for you. You can keep posting what you like, and that's not going to change.

You can keep lying about what happened in the end, and people will either believe you or not. They may start to notice what dealing with you was like, though, so be careful.

I wish I could find the pics from your worklog. You did ask me not to post a thread so that you could be the one to show it off. Now I wish I had.

But this ends up being one of those 'he said' arguments, not interested in playing that game with you.

I paid you back all you gave me, charged nothing for any work I did.

Again, if you want the evaporators back now, just pay for the work of making it into a lineset and the flex line they're attached to.

Otherwise, you're entirely welcome to drop it.


Gray

[Gray Mole]

I couldn't find any of the unit when it had dual heads, but this one is after I remodded it with a single head and chopped in basic displays and a switch.

A few more scratches but basically the same case. I never did refinish the front 100% but as I'd said, was waiting for a final decision on color or decals.

Was hoping to sell it like that just to use up the case, but no one wanted a dual head at the time, and no one else seemed inclined toward the rear entry that you wanted.

I sent you pictures of it with dual heads similar to this, though the displays weren't in since I think you'd wanted a dual LCD display.

Just to set the record straight. The unit was done other than waiting for things you needed to finalise.

Oh, and it seems that first you said you wanted your 50 euro and evaps, and then you say you don't want either, just to make sure that no one buys a unit from me. What exactly is it that you ARE after? To make my life hell again? Sorry, but you've already accomplished that once.

As I said before, I would like to make amends to anyone that I owe from the past. You're not one of them.


Gray

[noobzed]

So I made your life hell ? It's my fault if you divorced and had an accident ? Well ...

[Gray Mole]

No, Sebastian, you didn't make my wife hate my guts, nor did you cause me bodily harm. (unless that WAS you)

You just kept (and seem to keep on) chasing me around, badmouthing me, the work I do, and anything else about me you can find. Without end.

You also seem to latch on to anyone that I have anything to do with, calling them names even if you have nothing to do with them.

I spend countless hours having to chat with you about the unit (and anything else you wanted to chat about) when I was doing your build, and then you got angry that I wasn't doing it fast enough, or angry that I wasn't there to chat with you even if I was working. On your unit.

Now it seems like you're either after money again. Or parts again. Or something again. Or nothing, and just want more reason to call me names, or discredit what I do, how I do it, who I know, and any other way to spread hate in general in my general direction.

I feel like I was trying really hard not just to be fair with you, but to help as well, since you said that you needed cash and that it would help if you just cancelled and I sent back what you'd given me. Most guys wouldn't, any business wouldn't (I was never a business, just a phase guy) but I did. I couldn't afford to pay you more than you'd given me, and I didn't really feel it was fair for you to demand back what was installed into a unit that you weren't paying for.

Sending you a brazed lineset seemed unfair too, since the work and materials that any builder puts into it should be worth something. I gave you the enclosures, even though it made the evaps themselves somewhat useless, but they were separate and yours. I covered the shipping cost of that, too.

What did I do Sebastian? I never slept with your wife, or insulted you directly, or anything, other than to accept that you wanted to cancel and refunded the money you gave me. What did I do that made you want to hate me so much, that you want to follow threads and insult me and my work constantly?

I didn't rip you off. I just wasn't willing to give you more than I had received, AND give you the evaps that I'd brazed and added flex line to, since that's basically giving you more money than I received.

If you want, sell me back the enclosures. Would my giving you money for that make anything better?

I'm grasping here, since at heart I'd just like to try to make things ok, even though it seems to me that you're happier when things aren't ok.


Gray