need some professional advice

[generalpetres]

i am planning a high end gaming/graphics work station and i have decided i want to do a chilled water setup to cool it the specs of the comp are going to be a penryn quad core, dual 8950gx2s, 4 to 8 gigs of domination memory and raptorx hds. in all what i want to cool is hds gpus cpu chipset and maybe ram. i would like to cool the comp either @ 0c or belowwhat would be the most efficient coolant/compressor to do this.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

big. 12,000BTU I'd wager should handle that with a bit of room to spare.

[Freddie123]

First off you don't need to cool HD's or ram, its simply unnecessary and restrictive to your loop, good airflow through a case will manage to cool these things efficiently. As for compressor I think a 1/3hp would be fine, use a plate HX with it and you should have decent temps . For temps close to 0*C under load go for R134a as your refrigerant. For below that i'd head down the propane route.

Hold on, are you building an a/c chiller or your own phase chiller?

[generalpetres]

im still deciding on what route to do but im not going to run the system in a loop from one item to the next. i am planing on having a header that will split the water from the cooler to the cpu gpu and chipsets which will mean all the items will get about the same amount of cooling. for the system i dont want anything big i want to be able to have the cooler on my desk with out sacraficing to much space so its gotta be space worthy but still get the temps accross.

[_HL4E_HalfLife_]

i am planning a high end gaming/graphics work station and i have decided i want to do a chilled water setup to cool it the specs of the comp are going to be a penryn quad core, dual 8950gx2s, 4 to 8 gigs of domination memory and raptorx hds. in all what i want to cool is hds gpus cpu chipset and maybe ram. i would like to cool the comp either @ 0c or belowwhat would be the most efficient coolant/compressor to do this.

FYI: You won't need any more than 2gb's of ram anything more is just wasting money with no preformance gain.

[Starkiller42]

Xeon, I know you've got waaay more experience at this than me, but if he's aiming for just 0*C or so, there's not way he'd need an A/C that powerful. Guesstimating 175 watts each video card and 225 watts for the CPU that's 575 total watts. An A/C unit of that size will probably bring that load down to -25*C to -30*C, if not colder. Please do correct if I'm wrong, but we earlier agreed that my 9000BTU system should easily handle 400W at -30*C.

If the General would be so kind as to clarify his goals, we can help him narrow in on his best choice; ie what are your target temps, and will you be using an A/C? Also, just FYI general, cooling HDD's much beyond ambient is a bad thing; the magnetic properties of the disks can change, and you could corrupt your entire drive!!!

I agree that r134 is a fine refrigerant for 0*C ish, but if he's gonna just mod an A/C I'd try and keep the r22 inside of it; it'll make his life a lot easier. Charging, and learning to do so, is a huge pain .

[Xeon th MG Pony]

Well he said he'd be adding multiple systems, you have to include piping heat intake, environment load + Larg or multiple systems.

For a single well insulated system 3,100BTU is plenty. Good catch about the HDs I missed that.

Yes, I think he needs to give a better picture, will ensure good resualts

HL4E I gues you've never had 4gigs in your system or never used some of the programs I have or he has, it makes a world of diff.

[generalpetres]

i also have to mention that my room temp is about 80 F min in the summer and maybe 70s in winter so the cooler i want to be able to run my comp with out having to run 4 fans in my room to help battle heat lol want my comp to run cool when its fully overclocked and in the heat of the summer. i was going to run a header to split the output from the cooler so the cpu and the gpu get the coldest postible water with out sacraficing performance. what im looking for in a cooler is something thats most energy efficient with the most cooling. i do run my comp 24/7 somethimes. and for the refrigerant i have 30 gallon container of r-22 and r-12 in teh garage. and for size i was thinking about something like the liquid frostbyte. and i will need a min of 4 gigs cause i will be using progams like maya and autocad 2007 and my other comp that had 2 gigs barely was able to the job. what fluid would you suggest to run in the lines antifreeze, alchol? and at what temp would you say i would need to start worrying about making this anti condesation ( tired cant think jsut trying to explain you know what i mean lol).

[_HL4E_HalfLife_]

Well he said he'd be adding multiple systems, you have to include piping heat intake, environment load + Larg or multiple systems.

For a single well insulated system 3,100BTU is plenty. Good catch about the HDs I missed that.

Yes, I think he needs to give a better picture, will ensure good resualts

HL4E I gues you've never had 4gigs in your system or never used some of the programs I have or he has, it makes a world of diff.

Ok well u don't need more than 2gb's of ram for any GAME out there.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

There you go, I run a UO server now and then and during map edits and world building I need a teribyte practicaly, but 4 gigs it is barable.

[Freddie123]

The fluid depends how cold you want to run. If its not too far below zero you can run an anti freeze and water mix. However below about -15 I believe antifreeze stops working. Below this point you might want to consider ethanol. I've heard of people mixing ethanol and water in varying amounts to stop the water freezing but i'm not sure about the details.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

No it is good up to minuse 35 Antifreeze, so it works just fine, remember to keep technical accuracy, How ever it is not very usefull due to the weak nature of the pumps used and the restriction in the loops is too great to make antifreeze use full at thoughs temps. Thus to over come the related viscosity issues of antifreeze & water we opt for Methanol & water.

[generalpetres]

what size compressor 3/4hp? at the temps im looking at will i have to worry about condensation forming and will i have to cover my board adn cards so they dont short out. what do you guys think about cooling the ram? yay or nay? o only reason i wanted to cool my hds was ill be having 4 or 6 hitachi terabyte hds which run about 40c ill aslo have 4 150gb raptors going. need the terabytes cause im moving my dvd collection onto the hds.

[Xeon th MG Pony]

perhaps using a air cooling rad inside the case inline with the chiller then.

HP is garbage, means nothing, this is not about Hp it is about BTUs moved & final temp! This is medium temp, and depending on load will determin the BTU needed.

[generalpetres]

and what water blocks do you guys recommend i was looking at maybe using dangerden but wasent shure about the acrylic or not. and what pubs would you recommend im thinking aboutgoing with a 3/8 or 1/2 setup for max flow rather than 1/4.

[Starkiller42]

Water block selection depends entirely on your stated target temps. IIRC Acrylic does very poorly with cold, but Acetal (AKA delrin) does alright down to -20*C. Beyond that you need an all-metal block.

So if you're targeting warmer than -20*C, I'd suggest a D-tek Fuzion and Swiftech MCW-60 GPU's (Which I'm fairly sure are both delrin).

If colder, Swiftech MCW6002 and and MCW-50's with corrosion inhibitor.

At these temps, liquid tends to get harder to pump, so restriction becomes a major factor in system performance. I'd go for 1/2", but 7/16" is perfectly acceptable if you want that better seal around the barbs. Any smaller may significantly hurt your performance (depends on your pump).

Speaking of pump, which will you be using? I'd recommend an Iwaki; model MD-20 can be found on ebay for about $60, or less if you're patient. They'll handle anything that you can throw at them.

[generalpetres]

my temps were going to be about 0c +- some degrees no more than that really just not to many water block manufacores that make chipset blocks for a variety of boards and i know for a fact dangerden has one for the 680i chipset which i will be using. i know about iwaki cause im heavy into aquariums and they have a good magnetic drive system that is a really great and long lasting. i was also thinking about having a 5.25 bay resevoir to just add volume of collant to the system. as for tools i have a bunch of different gas guages in teh garage and have a charging/recharging station in the garage as well as welders, plasma cutters, and torches plus a lot of other stuff. o and my spending limit for everything on this comp will be around 6 to 7 thousand im spending this much cause this will be my dream comp that i will be using for many years to come.

[generalpetres]

any of you guys ever run your cooler and comp on a ups incase of a power outage so your comp doesnt get screwed over cause of lack of power to cool it down?

[Xeon th MG Pony]

I run my entire network system on a UPS. Stupid to spend 3grand on a networked system then not spend an extra 300 to protect it.

[generalpetres]

yeah i was going to buy a 1500w ups for my comp and cooler incase something happened so my comp has time to shut down and cool off adn save my work

[Starkiller42]

I just have my comp set up on the UPS (which I got for free ), but I'll just keep the cooler on the surge bar and set the bios to shut down if temps get too high. If I had a $3000 computer, I'd be thinking differently, but I'm more like at $650 for the comp (+case) and another couple hundred for the cooler . So an extra $300 would be a sizable investment on my part. Maybe I'll figure a way to just UPS the pump, and that should give me plenty of time with a res.

[[XC] gomeler]

generalpetres, just use the Dominator fan system to cool your ram, don't bother chilling the sticks. Just stick with the basic CPU/NB/GPU loop, cooling the ram below ambient only introduces a ton of problems with insulation and restriction. In regards to the differences between one huge loop or a distribution bar, I'd suggest going with the huge loop as you'll get the highest flow rate through the loop. Just start with the CPU, then NB, then GPU as the CPU will be most sensitive to temperatures. Goodluck with the build

[generalpetres]

only reason i want to do a distribution is because i will be running two 8950gx2s which is basically 4 8950 graphic cards, and the current 8800 run about 88c ambient so i really want my two main concerns gpu and cpu getting equal cooling rather than running a huge loop. worse comes to worse i can run 4 lines total 2 out from cooler and 2 in spliting the system in half and the cpu would be hooked up to one of the pumps and the gpu would be hooked up to the other rather than 1 single large loop. and instead of running a block header setup i can use a y adapter which shouldnt ruin to much flow for the setup.any way do you guys think a 3/4hp compressor will be enough to cool my setup i want to do? and as for the hds i stopped deciding on cooling the cause my main drive which will run my os will not need to much cooling cause it willhave nomoving parts i will be using a ssd drive for os and a hitachi 1tb drive for storage for movies. i was also thinking as a back up i would have a secon pump plumbed in to the setup so if one pump dies i can open a valve and hit a switch and the other pump will kick in just as a precaution.

[generalpetres]

i was also wondering if it would be possible to use a foster x controler to run the condensor and setup so i can start my cooler before i start my comp and shut my comp off and still have the controler cool my comp then shut down cause i know some water cooling systems people dont have a external controler to allow the pump and fan to still operate which means the cpu can get hot when shut down. but thats just me worrying about every little thing lol.

[Starkiller42]

The y-splitters should be fine, but you'll need a relatively high flow pump to supply sufficient coolant to your cards. I would recommend running through your CPU and then splitting for the GPU's.

The HP of a compressor is pretty irrelevant; if you can, please give us the model number and specs sheet for the compressor and we'll be glad to help. A 3/4 HP reciprocating is very different from a 3/4 HP rotary, and you can see large variances between manufacturers, too. The HP rating only tells you how much electricity it draws.

I'd not install a secondary pump like that; Murfy's law dictates that if your system is gonna fail, it's gonna be when you aren't around to do anything about it. I'd just set the bios to turn off if the CPU reaches a certain temperature. Also, invest that "secondary pump" money into a nice, powerful, and last-gang-near-forever Iwaki pump and you'll thank yourself. Chances are it will outlast most of the rest of your system.

I can't see why a Gfroster wouldn't work, but I'd go ahead and PM the maker and ask. He can likely give you some tips on how to optimize it, as well.

Hope that helps!