dx10 to use software aa resolve

[Eastcoasthandle]

The ATi and AMD logos on the us box, plus the lack of NVidia logo on the box make it not a TWIMTBP title. The french release was TWIMTBP, but the french release wasn't the DX10 version, it was DX9, and came out back in september. The american version isn't TWIMTBP, and neither is the DX10 upgrade.

Why would ATi be the only ones allowed to distribute a benchmark of a NVidia sponsored game? Why isn't CoJ on the american NZone page? It's on the french page because the french release back in september was TWIMTBP.
http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_tw...gameslist.html

Does anyone here have the american version of CoJ?

All you have to do is download the demo. There is no conspiracy in that right?
Demo ->CoJSPDemo_EN_USsetup.exe
But I can save you the trouble by confirming that the Nvidia log is also found there as well. But be my guest. I am sure you will find this

as I have using my current PC OS and setup.

[DilTech]

All you have to do is download the demo. There is no conspiracy in that right?
Demo
But I can save you the trouble by confirming that the Nvidia log is also found there as well. But be my guest. I am sure you will find this

as I have using my current PC OS and setup.

That demo is from 2006, back when it WAS a twimtbp title. Haven't you been listening? It was dropped from the TWIMTBP program end of 2006/beginning of 2007. The french version released september 2006, that demo is from july 2006.

So no, we can't use that demo for confirmation.

[Eastcoasthandle]

That demo is from 2006, back when it WAS a twimtbp title. Haven't you been listening? It was dropped from the TWIMTBP program end of 2006/beginning of 2007. The french version released september 2006, that demo is from july 2006.

So no, we can't use that demo for confirmation.

And what proof do you have of that?
It reads CoJSPDemo_EN_USsetup.exe
It was updated: 7/28/2006 according to that website.

[DilTech]

And what proof do you have of that?

The box, the NVidia TWIMTBP section of NZone US, the fact that ATi were the only ones allowed to distribute the benchmark, the logo at the bottom of YOUR link...

Is that enough, or do you just enjoy fighting a losing battle?

And what proof do you have of that?
It reads CoJSPDemo_EN_USsetup.exe
It was updated: 7/28/2006 according to that website.

That was 2006...Which again continues to follow with what I've been saying.

[Eastcoasthandle]

The box, the NVidia TWIMTBP section of NZone US, the fact that ATi were the only ones allowed to distribute the benchmark, the logo at the bottom of YOUR link...

Is that enough, or do you just enjoy fighting a losing battle?



That was 2006...Which again continues to follow with what I've been saying.

Actually, no your date claims doesn't matter at all be it 7/28/06 or otherwise.
The simple fact of the matter is that COJ is a TWIMTBP game (from the evidence shown). There was some minor adjustments to allow for shader aa resolve, etc for DX10.
You have not provided any concrete evidence (other then your opinion) to show any level of foul play.
You haven't proven that this is solely a GITG based game: showing a ATI sticker, etc is not proof that it's GITG based. Also, COJ is found on Nvidia's TWIMTBP site.
You have not proven any performance gains with the G80 over the R600 using this game. : The review shows that
You haven't proven that the HD 2900XT is not a contender in DX10 applications: the R600 is very strong when shader aa resolve is used (in this game). The performance hit that you make mention to could be do to HD accessing, Vista program running in the background, etc. and, is not an excuse to avoid answering why the R600 beat the GTX.
And, you say I am fighting a losing battle? I am not the one positioning myself to discredit the R600 when the evidence is clear in all that you try to refute.

[purecain]

thankyou eastcoast you took the words right out of my mouth...lol
hmmm dil bad luck try to get your info right next time as your comments have nearly derailed this thread....

[LordAnthraX]

Just bought a x2900xt 1GB, Good to know I purchased the right card, not an Nvidia.

[purecain]

congrats on the purchase, it is shaping up to be a very good card indeed. as new info about dx10 requirements are released, the way that our card is veiwed in the industry is improved. drivers are getting better and we may even get to see the tessalator working. its going to be a very exciting time for hd2900xt owners.

[DilTech]

Actually, no your date claims doesn't matter at all be it 7/28/06 or otherwise.
The simple fact of the matter is that COJ is a TWIMTBP game (from the evidence shown). There was some minor adjustments to allow for shader aa resolve, etc for DX10.
You have not provided any concrete evidence (other then your opinion) to show any level of foul play.
You haven't proven that this is solely a GITG based game: showing a ATI sticker, etc is not proof that it's GITG based. Also, COJ is found on Nvidia's TWIMTBP site.
You have not proven any performance gains with the G80 over the R600 using this game. : The review shows that
You haven't proven that the HD 2900XT is not a contender in DX10 applications: the R600 is very strong when shader aa resolve is used (in this game). The performance hit that you make mention to could be do to HD accessing, Vista program running in the background, etc. and, is not an excuse to avoid answering why the R600 beat the GTX.
And, you say I am fighting a losing battle? I am not the one positioning myself to discredit the R600 when the evidence is clear in all that you try to refute.

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=408

NVIDIA has a long standing relationship with Techland and their publisher Ubisoft. In fact, the original European version Call Of Juarez that was launched in September 2006 is part of the "The Way Its Meant To Be Played" program

As I stated, the original game was part of the TWIMTBP program, the american version that recently released is not. That's why it's on the france site, which thanks for pointing that out as it goes along with what I already stated.

As for your mention of "well, it could've been a backround task in vista"... They ran it more than once, it wasn't a single run. Also, if it "could've been a backround task" then couldn't the same thing have occured and been what brought the GTX below the HD2900xt? Think...

Also a developer doesn't have to be part of the gitg program to be sponsored by ATi. There's a few titles not in the GITG program that are ati sponsored and have an ati logo on the box... Just to letcha know.

So, are you just going to repeat yourself, or are you going to figure out that the american version, and the dx10 update that came with it, isn't part of the program?

[cadaveca]

Um, CoJ has ATI logo on back of box. AMD has publishing rights to demo. NO "TWIMTBP" Logo. It also does not have "TWIMTBP" logo on game start, it has AMD/ATI logo.


But then nV has Lost Planet...

[DilTech]

BTW, here's the american TWIMTBP list.
http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_tw...gameslist.html

[DilTech]

Um, CoJ has ATI logo on back of box. AMD has publishing rights to demo. NO "TWIMTBP" Logo. It also does not have "TWIMTBP" logo on game start, it has AMD/ATI logo.


But then nV has Lost Planet...

Thank you, that's what I was trying to explain to eastcoast.

There you have it east, COJ isn't part of the TWIMTBP program.

[cadaveca]

Just so we're clear tho, I have Canadian version(english/french).

[DilTech]

Just so we're clear tho, I have Canadian version(english/french).

It's the 2007 release, correct?

[Eastcoasthandle]

Diltech,
Your posts regarding this issue is OT. Which has nothing to do with OP ("dx10 to use software aa resolve"). And does not provide any vital information regarding shader aa resolve with COJ (or any other game). As it stands, the HD 2900XT performs strong when shader aa resolve is found (COJ in this example shows that HD2900XT is better). It is moot to worry about the performance hit the HD 2900XT takes (I already provided some examples of why that is) when it's beating the G80. As it stands at this point the more applications that use shader aa resolve in DX10 (DX10.1 it doesn't matter), the more the HD 2900XT shows itself to be a strong contender.

[DilTech]

Diltech,
Your posts regarding this issue is OT. Which has nothing to do with OP ("dx10 to use software aa resolve"). And does not provide any vital information regarding shader aa resolve with COJ (or any other game). As it stands, the HD 2900XT performs strong when shader aa resolve is found (COJ in this example shows that HD2900XT is better). It is moot to worry about the performance hit the HD 2900XT takes (I already provided some examples of why that is) when it's beating the G80. As it stands at this point the more applications that use shader aa resolve in DX10 (DX10.1 it doesn't matter), the more the HD 2900XT shows itself to be a strong contender.

Isn't a performance hit the indication as to which technology is stronger at using a different technique?

Now, as I pointed out, if your argument about vista being the culprit is true, it very well could've also been the same situation that caused the HD 2900xt to out-perform the GTX. I'm leaving that theory completely out though, for both situations, seeing as they ran the tests multiple times.

The fact is, we have only ONE example thus far of shader aa, which obviously isn't even that great of an example as it runs poorly on both company's hardware. Until we see more companies do it, if they do it during the life-span of these cards at all(which remains to be seen), the performance using the technique is still in the air, no?

[Eastcoasthandle]

Isn't a performance hit the indication as to which technology is stronger at using a different technique?

No it isn't. That's way to much of a "blanket statement" and other variables have to be taken into consideration.

Now, as I pointed out, if your argument about vista being the culprit is true, it very well could've also been the same situation that caused the HD 2900xt to out-perform the GTX. I'm leaving that theory completely out though, for both situations, seeing as they ran the tests multiple times.

I never wrote anything about vista being a culprit for HD 2900XT only. I did provide other examples, didn't I? Which is still an excuse to ignore the fact that the HD 2900XT still beat the G80, did it not?

The fact is, we have only ONE example thus far of shader aa, which obviously isn't even that great of an example as it runs poorly on both company's hardware. Until we see more companies do it, if they do it during the life-span of these cards at all(which remains to be seen), the performance using the technique is still in the air, no?

So far we have 1 DX 10 game using shader aa resolve inwhich the HD 2900XT beats the G80. But as I said before, if shader aa resolve is used in more DX10 applications HD 2900XT should be a strong contender (as we have seen here). But let us wait and see, no harm in that at all, is there...

But let us come to grips of what you posted so far:
When it's discussed that the HD 2900XT beats the G80 in COJ using DX10 aa resolve. You post:
-it's performance hit more those G80
-pic of a ati label
-that it's not that great of an example
-did I miss anything...

So far, your opinions have not gone well IMHO. Although they are noted, they lack any real substance that would suggest any foul play, fluke or poor example of the HD 2900XT in COJ using DX10.

[DilTech]

No it isn't. That's way to much of a "blanket statement" and other variables have to be taken into consideration.

Variables are in play in any benchmark, are you saying all benchmarks have to many variables to be comparable when they're all run from the same system?

I never wrote anything about vista being a culprit for HD 2900XT only. I did provide other examples, didn't I? Which is still an excuse to ignore the fact that the HD 2900XT still beat the G80, did it not?

You said backround applications could be the cause. Note at the end of that statement I said I'm leaving that theory completely out, because it holds very little water. Same with the way you put it.

So far we have 1 DX 10 game using shader aa resolve inwhich the HD 2900XT beats the G80. But as I said before, if shader aa resolve is used in more DX10 applications HD 2900XT should be a strong contender (as we have seen here). But let us wait and see, no harm in that at all, is there...

This goes along with what I've been saying for awhile. With DX10 whichever architecture the game is optimized for will be the leader in that game because the 2 competitors are so drastically different.

But let us come to grips of what you posted so far:
When it's discussed that the HD 2900XT beats the G80 in COJ using DX10 aa resolve. You post:
-it's performance hit more those G80

Which is true, and can be seen by anyone who clicks the link.

-pic of a ati label

Cad verified it for us, the 2007 COJ release is an ATi title. Refer to my statement about DX10 performance and what card each title is optimized for. It also blew your whole "it's a TWIMTBP" argument clean out the window.

-that it's not that great of an example

It's not. Thus far we've seen no good examples of DX10 because they've all been DX9 titles with DX10 tossed onto it.

So far, your opinions have not gone well IMHO. Although they are noted, they lack any real substance that would suggest any foul play, fluke or poor example of the HD 2900XT in COJ using DX10.

I've never denied the HD 2900xt being stronger in COJ. Never once did I say it wasn't. I stated, and backed up, the fact that in shader aa, which this thread is all about, that the 8800 took a smaller performance hit. It can be verified by anyone who wants to look at the benchmarks themselves.

Obviously my statements have gone pretty well, every one of my statements about the topic have shown true. Yours on the other hand, from you swearing the DX10 COJ is a TWIMTBP title, to your "that difference may be a vista backround application" have all been blown out of the water. Perhaps you should re-read the thread again.

Anything else you want to add?

[Eastcoasthandle]

Variables are in play in any benchmark, are you saying all benchmarks have to many variables to be comparable when they're all run from the same system?

Again, you avoid the fact that the HD2900XT did well in that test using performance hit as your excuse.

You said backround applications could be the cause. Note at the end of that statement I said I'm leaving that theory completely out, because it holds very little water. Same with the way you put it.

Not your call to make, you asked for some examples, I gave them.

This goes along with what I've been saying for awhile. With DX10 whichever architecture the game is optimized for will be the leader in that game because the 2 competitors are so drastically different.

As I stated before, we will see if AA resolve is seen more in DX10 (DX10.1) titles

Which is true, and can be seen by anyone who clicks the link.

Which has no merit to the benchmark results and to this thread.

Cad verified it for us, the 2007 COJ release is an ATi title. Refer to my statement about DX10 performance and what card each title is optimized for. It also blew your whole "it's a TWIMTBP" argument clean out the window.

Been discussed and again has no merit to the OP or the benchmark results

It's not. Thus far we've seen no good examples of DX10 because they've all been DX9 titles with DX10 tossed onto it.

Says you? Take it for what it is, let it go...

I've never denied the HD 2900xt being stronger in COJ. Never once did I say it wasn't. I stated, and backed up, the fact that in shader aa, which this thread is all about, that the 8800 took a smaller performance hit. It can be verified by anyone who wants to look at the benchmarks themselves.

Obviously my statements have gone pretty well, every one of my statements about the topic have shown true. Yours on the other hand, from you swearing the DX10 COJ is a TWIMTBP title, to your "that difference may be a vista backround application" have all been blown out of the water. Perhaps you should re-read the thread again.

Anything else you want to add?

I disagree as there is no solid evidence in which you refute the benchmark results using aa resolve. If there is anything else I wish to add, I'll let you know

[purecain]

so going by what dil says the hd2900xt will outright beat down the gtx in any titles with shader based aa resolve, which is shaping up to be all of them. i can handle that. based on this it no longer makes sense to advise people to buy the gtx and especially not the gts as i have to wonder what kind of performance that poor card will produce.

[TouGe]

This post has become rather pointless. Congradulations for turning a really good thread into a pissing contest. Diltech has gone out of his way to explain, reiterate, and then explain again but nobody here wants to hear it. Oh well, what ever! Points for you Diltech for trying but I fear its a losing battle.

[SLINROB]

thankyou eastcoast you took the words right out of my mouth...lol
hmmm dil bad luck try to get your info right next time as your comments have nearly derailed this thread....

Dude just shut up already. I usually dont post here much as I just surf the forums but good grief you are the biggest ati fanboy I have yet to ever come across after reading post after post of your bs.

Yes the 2900XT is a great card and so is the 8800GTX but the truth remains that no one really knows how well either will do in DX10 titles so please stop acting like you have a crystal ball or something.

[tommyshango]

you guys do know that this game completely sucks right.. you are talking about call of juarez? because that could be one of the worst fps games to come out this century.. just in case you actually played the game.. and not trying to talk i do think this is an interesting thread but keep in mind that the game is so ty im not sure its worth talking about even if it is one of the only dx10 games(demos) to come out.

[tommyshango]

oh and no way that 2900 beats out a gtx if it did and could they would price it higher.

[SLINROB]

you guys do know that this game completely sucks right.. you are talking about call of juarez? because that could be one of the worst fps games to come out this century.. just in case you actually played the game.. and not trying to talk i do think this is an interesting thread but keep in mind that the game is so ty im not sure its worth talking about even if it is one of the only dx10 games(demos) to come out.

Well I guess its just a matter of opinion. I played through COJ in the DX9 version and loved every minute of it. I thought it was a cool game myself.