Warning !!! Don't Buy Aluminium Waterblocks

[SharkerSk]

I disagree.
Obviouslly there are at least a few people here who do not know that mixing the metals can cause problems.
So bury it? No thanks, while there are quite a few posts here that should be deleted, and I prolly will later, there is some good info in here for the ignorant.

Okay ..sorry my fault, excuce me
I have had serious problem with galvanic corrosion in aluminium waterblock one year ago and so, I think that this problem could be interesting for other people Anyway ....

[wdrzal]

it has nothing to do with water, copper cannot contact aluminum or you see the results. here why in elementary terms

http://www.exploratorium.edu/snacks/hand_battery.html

[largon]

SharkerSk,
Funny thing is that you have a link in your sig to the viscool.com CPU block section where there is a Al-Cu corrosion demonstration in water, in distilled water and in distilled water with corrosion inhibitors.

Yet you did not use any additives.

wdrzal,
Please do elaborate as the site you linked to contradicts yourself.

[SharkerSk]

Largon .... they are using only noryl and plastic covers for their waterblocks.
They probably forget update their website I'll contact them

[Marci]

In fact Marci..if your around

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...nium+corrosion ...says it all.

My stance on the use of aluminium is well-documented both here and on all other sites I frequent... that being, just avoid using it and thus avoid the complications that come alongside it. (ie: Is the anodizing good enough...? Has the enduser done sufficient research to know he HAS to use an additive...? Already there are now two factors out of anyone's control to account for - remove the use of aluminium, remove two uncontrollable factors, and thus remove the need for this entire topic which crops up with monotonous regularity every 6 weeks and has doneso for eons)

If we could have the faith that folks would use additive, then this wouldn't be a problem, but this whole thread highlights a lack of research, plain and simple. For nearing 10 years it's been common knowledge that you need to run anticorrosive additives alongside aluminium blocks in watercooling systems... to miss this fact simply demonstrates that adequate research prior to the purchase of the parts is lacking. This is what happens when watercooling becomes more mainstream. Parts availability becomes easy, and folks don't bother doing their research first.

This info is WIDELY spread across ALL forums that I frequent... it is covered in every watercooling guide I've ever read, and in more or less every watercooling sections' sticky by default... it's almost the first rule of watercooling it's that old.

Ignore the terminology I use in this next sentence, it isn't meant to be insulting... it's just a suitable way of phrasing it and I can't be assed to think of a more P/C way of saying it...

Manufacturers cannot account for the idiot factor (aka net-clue-factor to coin Cathar's way of saying it). If you can't account for the idiot factor, don't build items that an idiot cannot use correctly.

To release alu blocks is milking the market. Manufacturers know there is a HIGH risk of that aluminium block getting destroyed by what I'd say would be a good 50% of the watercooling market (the chunk that don't do their research and just dive in head first). This destruction isn't covered by warranty, so another sale is milked from the equation when that customer requires a replacement. A responsible manufacturer would include a note in with every block clearly stating that an anticorrosive additive MUST be used.

[Marci]

and what about half the D-Tek blocks in that table which are no longer in production and the Silverprop blocks which again are no longer in production. TDX and RBX again are old.

You don't throw out testing data, no matter how old. At worst, you correct any invalid data as any flaws in testing technique and methodology come to light... or simply highlight on the old data that methodologies have changed and thus results may not be directly comparable. TDX and RBX are both still current blocks that are in use, and thus the presence of their data remains valid. An archive of data is needed to establish trends and curves over time. Just because old data features does not make a site old. It makes that sites information more complete than one that focuses solely on the latest and greatest. Overclockers.com will always be one of the Top10 resources for watercooling data purely BECAUSE of the age of it's content - you'll find a great deal of questions asked here daily could've been answered by a quick search of the "older" sites - overclockers.com, procooling.com etc that are now commonly disregarded when searching for info. You'll note in every thread I've replied in today, my responses all refer to "old" data, however that data is all perfectly valid and directly applicable to current products and techniques. To dismiss the old means to dismiss that which has already been learned, and thus necessitates the dredging up of dross that's been covered over and over again in the past on a daily basis... to do so is a fools game.

[starla-mc]

May I ask what came out of your rad. There looks to be a lot of algae in that that block too. Can’t really tell for sure the close up picture are kind of blurred. Really like to know if there was that much growth in the rad too

[Mekrel]

You don't throw out testing data, no matter how old. At worst, you correct any invalid data as any flaws in testing technique and methodology come to light... or simply highlight on the old data that methodologies have changed and thus results may not be directly comparable. TDX and RBX are both still current blocks that are in use, and thus the presence of their data remains valid. An archive of data is needed to establish trends and curves over time. Just because old data features does not make a site old. It makes that sites information more complete than one that focuses solely on the latest and greatest. Overclockers.com will always be one of the Top10 resources for watercooling data purely BECAUSE of the age of it's content - you'll find a great deal of questions asked here daily could've been answered by a quick search of the "older" sites - overclockers.com, procooling.com etc that are now commonly disregarded when searching for info. You'll note in every thread I've replied in today, my responses all refer to "old" data, however that data is all perfectly valid and directly applicable to current products and techniques. To dismiss the old means to dismiss that which has already been learned, and thus necessitates the dredging up of dross that's been covered over and over again in the past on a daily basis... to do so is a fools game.

I see where you are coming from, however I'm on about the site not dibbling in the updated block scene as much as I would like to see.

The TDX and RBX are current designs as you so rightly said, but thats because nothing new has come out of DangerDen in terms of base design for some time. Only new tops on old blocks, ala RD600 hold down plate for Maze4.

Obviously as you pointed out on OcUK forums they are churning blocks out for nVidia AIB partners and the U.S' equivilent of PC-World - still bit disapointing seeing a company such as DangerDen not being as competitive at performance as they have been in the past.

[NaeKuh]

From a noobs perspective, I actually enjoyed reading this thread (minus all the bs of course) to learn a little more and to hear from others experiences. I was planning on purchasing the Apogee GTX 1. because it was recommended in the guide by maxx, 2. I wanted to match the GPU block figuring that using the same company's parts would be wise, and 3. It just looks sexy as hell! But, I was never planning on using any form of anti-corrosive like Zerex or other forms as I have a 3,5 month old baby boy and 2 cats and a wife who would kill me twice over if anything happened to them especially because of the computer .
I have just re-read Maxx's Water Cooling Guide: The basics. . . again and realized the parts that I skimmed over were a little more important than I thought. "With that said, for those who do NOT plan to run mixed metals, a good biocide (kills organic life) would be optimum, as no corrosion inhibitor is needed." Since I don't want to take any risks at all with human/animal life (computer on the other hand is replacable), my choice is very simple and for me it is to run all copper with distilled water. So now my CPU block will either be the GT or the Fuzion as I plan on running only one loop with no zerex. . .
Thanks for the info.

There is nothing wrong with the apogeeGTX. GAbe has assured us that the plating on it is top notch.

Gabe even went to the extreme and listed what platting process was done on it, and what grade the nickle plate is.

I dont see any other manufacture going this far for there customers. Infact most other companys will keep there anodizing, and plating secret.


I run a ApogeeGTX. I get uber load temps on my quad. How uber you ask? I am running the best. IWAKI RD-30, ApogeeGTX, PA120.3 Need i say more?


So far the apogeeGTX only had 1 Problem. Thats the dye. But a soft tooth brush, and about 5 min scrubbing will take it all off.


So dont freak out about the GTX. Its an awesome block, and it really kicks butt when BOWED.


EDIT: I typo'd lapped instead of bow.


@Marci... heres one to make your proud.




mmmm... i want a PA140.3 if they ever come out now. I know its excessive, but thats what this forum is about no?

[nealh]

NaeKuh:

Are you using an anti-corrosive with the GTX????

So I guess my real question is if you use a GTX should you use Pentosin/Zerex additive?

[B.E.E.F.]

By forcing us to use additives, we lower the theoretical amount of heat that can be dissipated instead of having gone a 100% solution of distilled water.

Can't you use ammonia?

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/sp...ids-d_151.html

It has a slightly higher heat capacity than water. It also kills life, so its perfect to prevent algae and stuff in the system.

Or are most ammonia compounds corrosive?

[speed bump]

Can't you use ammonia?

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/sp...ids-d_151.html

It has a slightly higher heat capacity than water. It also kills life, so its perfect to prevent algae and stuff in the system.

Or are most ammonia compounds corrosive?

Umm, do I really need to explain to you why using ammonia is bad?

I really have trouble believing that people no longer look at simple things like, putting in an anticorrosive when they are mixing metals.

[SharkerSk]

Oh.. the color on the inside top of the Swiftech GTX is going to fade and there'll be some black dye coming off. Not to worry. Its perfectly normal. No, the top of the Apogee GTX is not made of delrin, but those who are scared of any use of aluminum are foolish because the plating is of considerable quality. Don't even think of painting anything on the inside of the block. You will wreck the highest performing water block in the market.

pictures paint 1000 words iany:







If these bother you, get a soft toothbrush, and scrub the dye off b4 you drop it into the loop. that silver underside is nickle plate.

And you guys should really listen to iany. He and nikhsub are probably the only people i can think of on this forum whose had the block b4 i did. I was part of the review that went on this forum.

But YES it does come off, that was done on dual DDC-2. I have a RD-30 now, and i scrubed the dye off, with a soft toothbrush. And it comes out very easily with warm water.

Swiftech APOGEE GTX aluminium plating "sucks" ????
OMFG

[largon]

Swiftech APOGEE GTX aluminium plating "sucks" ????
OMFG

Ho-hum.


Please, do tell us how exactly it "sucks".

[LogAn'sRun]

from an objective standpoint, why paint the bottom of the GTX anyway if it's so easy to rub off, or known to flake into the system? I'm not trying to bash, my WC knowledge is .01 and I'm just trying to learn as I go along. . . .

[DarkWing6611]

Ew!!!

Use Copper & Acrylic waterblock ONLY!!!

[Angry_Steel]

It boggles the mind to try and comprehend why with all the free information out there from years of watercooling experiences, how someone could/would run a system with Alu/Cu without any kind of protection whatsoever. Especially a block with Alu/Cu in DIRECT contact. "Xtreme" negligence to say the least. Also I highly doubt that this is even remotely close to the proportion of corrosion that you would see in a "properly" set up Alu/Cu setup.

Honestly I choose not to have a combination of Alu/Cu anywhere in the system as it gives me piece of mind, but if people find it neccessary (ala Swifty GTX) then obviously you need some kind of anti-corrosive or your just playing with fire, trusting that there was no mechanical or human error in the manufacturing process, or that Murphy's Law wont find a home in your shiny WB.

[nealh]

Naekuh..so the pics above are the paint flaking off??


Swiftech....That seems to be poor QC for $75 cpu block....why paint it if flakes off so easily

I love swiftech products I have most WC/chipset coolers form swiftech

But not happy to see the paint on the inside flaking like that....one more thing can an issue???

Do we need literally to remove the paint with a toothbrush???

[IanY]

Naekuh,

Good grief. Do we have to go through that ordeal again ?

[Hard H20]

OK, I've been running a Swiftech Apogee GTX in a copper based loop since it's release. I have not seen any water loop VD develop as a result of doing so. I will take the loop down in another month, open the block, take some pics and post them. Maybe we can stop this dead horse after that. It's not brain surgery guys, if you're concerned about corrosion use an additive in the loop, or don't buy the block.

My offer still stands if my loop corrodes as a result of using the GTX, I will buy everyone who told me so a beer and I will put it on gabe's tab.

[IanY]

You know what? Yeah. The block sucks. Don't buy the block! Stay way from it.

This way, it'll always be in stock whenever I want one.

[nealh]

You know what? Yeah. The block sucks. Don't buy the block! Stay way from it.

This way, it'll always be in stock whenever I want one.

Dont get so testing..who says the block sucks..performance wise the block is very good...no doubting that...

I asked is the paint really flaking already to that degree..seems like it would clog components...besides sure seems the paint is poorly done if this happening

but I repeat a $75 block that is flaking its paint with so little use..seems of questionable QC

[IanY]

Dont get so testing..who says the block sucks..performance wise the block is very good...no doubting that...

I asked is the paint really flaking already to that degree..seems like it would clog components...besides sure seems the paint is poorly done if this happening

but I repeat a $75 block that is flaking its paint with so little use..seems of questionable QC

Its not paint. It is dye.

As Gabe explains, the dye was intentionally applied that way to give the appearance of an Edelbrock engine cover. I do not have an interest in American muscle cars, so I must admit I have little interest or knowledge of what an Edelbrock engine cover looks like. Whatever benefit one accrues from a water block looking like an engine cover is intangible and up to one's interpretation.

For me personally, I could not care if my water block looks like canine turd. As long as its the best performing.

As Gabe has explained, the dye does nothing to clog components, not to mention blocks with impingement jets that clog are so.... sooo... last year ? Sorry, I own a lot of Storm blocks myself.. all of them in a shoe box in the closet. Neither the FuZion nor the GTX clog, and neither do the MCW60 or the FuZion GTX. Its not that the dye clogs blocks or that the dye has any effect whatsoever on anything.

For those who don't focus on the dye, then there are the outcries about the aluminum ad nauseum.

Both D-tek and Swiftech are at the top of the industry. You can choose not to buy Swiftech, but you would be foolish then not to buy D-Tek. The bottom line is that the GTX is one of the two best, if not the best, performing cpu blocks at any price.

If you don't like it, don't buy it. For the sake of everyone's sanity, PLEASE don't buy it.

I'm not testy. You have consumer choices. Either you buy it and shut up, or you don't buy it and shut up. Thank you.

[nealh]

If you don't like it, don't buy it. For the sake of everyone's sanity, PLEASE don't buy it.

I'm not testy. You have consumer choices. Either you buy it and shut up, or you don't buy it and shut up. Thank you.

I am editing for my comments..they were unduly harsh


my apologies IanY

[Grinch]

Your amazing..I will never understand why in the world you can be such a jerk

I do not think you have the right to tell anyone in this forum to shut up....you are becoming a cancer

I asked for info on another person's experience not yours....I used to respect your responses but lately there is so much anger and hatred...I really feel you are damaging the value of this forum

In the last year this forum has been the most helpful and pleasant place to exchange information...its a shame people like Creidiki, Maxxracer and many others are not around as much to be helpful...you would never see them respond like you have to so many members

miss Creidiki & Maxxracer myself....