PC Power and Cooling 510 Deluxe

[Hell-Fire]

For anyone having this supply:

At first looks it appears that only the 3.3v rail has the sense wire. It you look closer, you will see that they put the other sense wire in the middle of the bundle. It is for the 5v rail, and I am pretty positive that modding that one will raise both the 5v and 12v rails.

I have one and am going to try it to see what happens.

[JayTeague]

Please post the results. I just ordered one, and want to know how the sense wire mod works on it !

[bachus_anonym]

yes, there's 5v sense wire... but there isn't one for 12v... hopefully u r right and get 12v rail bumped up too
so u decided to do it that way ? well, at least u will be able to easily mod 5v rail coz replacing that little yellow pot would be pain in the a..

[Hell-Fire]

With Semper's PCP&C Deluxe 510, I didnt wanna chance it so I did his the way you did yours with replacing the stock with 2k VRs and it worked nicely. So thanks for the little tid bit of info.

[JayTeague]

Hell-Fire -- Replace the stock 2k VRs with what ? I am curious about the mod that you used, and the results it generates.

[bachus_anonym]

Originally posted by JayTeague
Hell-Fire -- Replace the stock 2k VRs with what ? I am curious about the mod that you used, and the results it generates.

factory installed pots responsible for 3.3v and 12v adjustments are both 500 ohm. this maxes rail out at about 3.35-3.40v and 12.25-12.30v respectively.
by replacing those pots with 2k ohm ones u can get quite higher on those rails, but for 3.3v rail max would be around 3.7v (OverVoltageProtection) kicks in abd PSU shuts off...
BTW, replacing pots works like a charm

[JayTeague]

Thank you for the information. Will have to give that one a try !
So, higher Resistance == Higher voltage here ?

[Hell-Fire]

Originally posted by JayTeague
Thank you for the information. Will have to give that one a try !
So, higher Resistance == Higher voltage here ?

Yes. You are fooling the Vreg into thinking ebough voltage isnt getting thru to the connectors, so it increases its output.

[Chipzfriar]

Hell-Fire, I am getting my 510 Deluxe tomorrow, I ordered it with the 3 optional potentiometers, 1 per voltage rail, will I have (or would it be advisable) to replace anything at this point, or have I got the 'right' setup from the get-go? They knock ya for $90 for the 3, so I would assume they use good parts? Thanks!

[bachus_anonym]

Originally posted by Chipzfriar
Hell-Fire, I am getting my 510 Deluxe tomorrow, I ordered it with the 3 optional potentiometers, 1 per voltage rail, will I have (or would it be advisable) to replace anything at this point, or have I got the 'right' setup from the get-go? They knock ya for $90 for the 3, so I would assume they use good parts? Thanks!

since i also have that PSU i'll give u answer...
most likeley those pots are not gonna make your rails fly... but i maybe wrong... i want to know that, though. that $90 is WAAAY to much for three pots and option to adjust rails without poking your screwdriver inside the PSU.
also it's not a matter of pots quality but their resistance. if those are rated for more that 500 ohm then u WILL get more headroom.
let us know when u get it, please.

[Chipzfriar]

K, here's the scoop. Got it in today, and it's a beaut, and Heavy as well. I have all 3 pots, unfortunately, they are not labeled as to which is which voltage, but there are 2 different kinds, 2 of one and one of the other, though they are all made by Spectrol. Only thing differentiating them is the color of the 2 leads going to each one.

The one with the Yellow/Black is model 534-1-1 and says 5K +/- 5%, next line is Lin +/- 0.25%.

The other 2 are model 534 Res 2K ohms at +/- 5%, next line is Lin +/- 0.25% again. The colors of the wires are Red/Black and Orange/Black.

I will call them tomorrow and ask which lead is for which voltage, I would think that for a $300 power supply, they surely must have a labeler around there somewhere which the could have printed out a voltage label for each and wrapped them around each wire...

Can't wait to fire it up, but it looks like it may be (at least) a few weeks before I get it all together, since I have decided to go with a Cooler Master CM Stacker case, it's the only one I have yet seen which is a E-ATX/BTX case, but they won't be released until May, latest news I heard. Since this is going to be my "Uber Computer" for the next couple years (at least), what with the Koolance cooling, etc etc, I figured a couple more weeks won't hurt _too_ much, even though I am itching like crazy to get it going.

One thing I haven't yet bought is the processor, and looking at those threads around here, it seems things keep getting better week to week, at least in terms of the P-4 3.0C, or whichever is the current flavor of the month. Since they went with the 30 cap variety, it seems things may have gotten better for us in terms of O/C'ing, and I will have to pay close attn as to which would be the best to buy, the 3.0, 3.2, or even 3.4...

Oh well, that's the scoop for now, I will post more when I get the whole thing together.

[bachus_anonym]

well, it's easy...

the colors are universal and represent 3 rails as shown at the ATX connector plug:

yellow ---> 12v
red ---> 5v
orange --->3.3v

i wonder what's the max voltage u can squezze out of those pots? 5k, 2k and 2k... if they work the same way as in my modded PSU then it looks like the sky is the limit

good luck with it... i'm sure u will be very happy...

[Chipzfriar]

*edit* "Doh" hit back button on browser, and it reloaded my last post... Sorry

[computerpro3]

well I just got off the phone with pcp&c and wow do these guys know their stuff. Very friendly and professional, reminds me of Mushkin. Heres the info about the pots....

the pots inside the psu are only adjustable +\- 3%. IF you order the external pots, they modify some internal resistors and such to allow the lines to be adjustable by +\- 10%. If you want, they will also do one pot external only intead of 3 so you only have to pay $30 instead of $90. I ordered mine with the 3.3v external pot only because thats the only line I need sky high for the memory voltage. The other ones I can just bump up.

So....

1hour phone call to CA = $5
pcp&c 510 turbocool deluxe custimized psu = $227
One Very happy Customer = priceless

EDIT: When you guys ordered yous psu, did you do it over the phone? IF so, did they ask you for a Credit card number? I ordered mine over the phone and they didn't ask for a credit card number or anything. All they asked was if my shipping addy was the same as the billing one. What was that all about? How are they going to bill me? Thanks

[Chipzfriar]

Yup, they asked for my CC#, my guess is that you will be getting a followup call from them, to finish up the order, before they ship it. I would be quite surprised if they shipped it without one, but hey, they're human, so who knows...

I think I am going to give in to the itch, and toss what I have into a full tower case I have lying around, and get the thing going... I can't wait till the middle of next month for that CM Stacker case from Cooler Master. It will be the Bomb, but I have all of these kick butt parts, just _lying_ there... hehe

[Hell-Fire]

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this thread.

As most people know, the PCP&C 510w psu's come with internal pots. Even the non-deluxe models have them, there just arent pre-drilled holes on the housing to allow easy manipulation of the VRs.

Well, although these internal pots allow some voltage tweaking, they by no means allow the kinds of voltages we are looking for....most importantly 3.3v rail values for us AMDers.

On most units that have sense wires, you will almost always have the 3.3v Sense present. This is not always the case for the 5v and 12v rails. You will sometimes have one or the other, and sometimes both--as is the case with many Antec psu's. A vast majority of guides will say to look for the sense wires at the corners of the ATX connector. They will generally be running into the same slot as the power rail.

This is not the case for the PCP&C 510w models. There is indeed a sense for the 3.3v rail at its respective corner, but there is a lack of the sense wire for either 5v or 12v rails. Or so you would think after looking at the typical corner of the connector. If you take a closer look, you will see that there is indeed a 5v sense wire nestled snuggly in the middle of the ATX bundle.

Now, modding the 3.3v or 12v rail is a simple affair. You can easily remove the internal pot and replace it with a 2K pot and continue onward. To remove these internal pots, you heat up the solder holding the legs to the pcb mount, and using a set of needle nose pliers, you wiggle back and forth while pulling back. The trick is to move back and forth quickly between the legs so that they stay hot.

**I would use the same VR/Pot style that they are using to avoid any problems after the mod is complete.**

Here is a pic showing what to heat up:




However, the 5v pot is a little trickier as it would involve removing the pcb from the housing and then removing the 5v pot and replacing it with a higher value one. After a quick inspection, I decided to leave the internal pot for the 5v rail and just mod what I was hoping was the 5v sense wire instead. My thoughts are to always leave the psu in its housing unless you are skilled enough to remove the entire unit from the housing. Removing the pcb is not for the beginning modder. I have removed many a psu, and am comfortable with that affair, but you bring into the fray other hazards that I prefer avoiding. You can cause other shorts if not careful...not to mention accidently removing other components on the psu pcb while trying to remove it from its housing. If I can leave the pcb in the housing, I by all means do so.

Here is a pic showing the location of the 5v pot:




Now, simply cut the sense wire and remove a good inch or so of it. Solder a 40-70 ohm fixed resistor to the leads. Then solder a wire from the top leg of the fixed resistor (top being the leg of the fixed resistor that is attached to the lead that runs into the psu) to the middle leg of a 10k VR. Then ground out the top leg of the VR. Turning clockwise will increase the voltage on the 5v rail.

You HAVE to use the fixed resistor for this mod. It will not work if you just simply solder the VR to the 2 leads of the sense wire. The psu will certainly fire up and work perfectly, but you will NOT be able to increase the voltage using the VR.

**You may be able to use a lower valued VR, but a 10K is all I had on hand. After a voltage increase, I just didnt have the time to remove the 10k VR to check its resistance to see at what value did we start to see an increase in voltage. I leave that part to the next person doing this mod.**

I did not replace the 12v internal pot on this psu, as it was not requested by the owner. The 12v rail maxes out at 12.25v with the factory pot.

Before returning the psu to the owner, I will of course drill holes so he can adjust the voltages without having to remove the cover.

The voltages in the below pics are by no means the high points attainable. I will leave raising or lowering the voltages to the owner of this psu once he receives it from me.

Other pics:

[computerpro3]

great guide, hellfire! I have a question...they said that when they mounted my adjustable pots,they modified some resistors inside the psu to allow it to adjust up to 10%. Is that bs and did they just replace the pot with a 2k pot to allow it to adjust higher? Also, I only ordered one external pot, the 3.3v pot. Is it possible to unsolder the other two stock pots inside the psu, solder two wires to the points where the old pot was soldered, and then solder a 2k pot on to the other ends of the wire to in essence make the pots external? I think it should work but just want someone else's opinion that is more familiar to this psu.
Thanks!

[Hell-Fire]

Originally posted by computerpro3
great guide, hellfire! I have a question...they said that when they mounted my adjustable pots,they modified some resistors inside the psu to allow it to adjust up to 10%. Is that bs and did they just replace the pot with a 2k pot to allow it to adjust higher? Also, I only ordered one external pot, the 3.3v pot. Is it possible to unsolder the other two stock pots inside the psu, solder two wires to the points where the old pot was soldered, and then solder a 2k pot on to the other ends of the wire to in essence make the pots external? I think it should work but just want someone else's opinion that is more familiar to this psu.
Thanks!

Thanks man.

As far as if they modified pots or simply replaced them, I am unsure without seeing a pic of the inside of the psu.

However, a 2K pot will allow more than a 10% increase in voltage. BUT, if the pots they installed allows for a 10% increase, then you can adjust the 3.3v rail as high as 3.63 volts. I would think that would be plenty. If you turn the VRs they installed all the way, how high can you push the voltage?

Which 2 stock pots are you referring to when asking about removing them and adding wires and what not?

Regardless, I can see no reason why simply removing the pots and adding wires to the places where the pots were mounted wouldnt work. Just make certain that you arrange the wires to hit the legs of the pot as if it were mounted...know what I mean? They basically have the pots mounted into a copper laced pcb board. So adding wires to where the holes will be once the stock resistor is removed should work just fine. Also, I would use 3 wires since they used all 3 legs of the pots they installed. That way you can pretty much quarantee it will work without issue.

Let us know if you have any questions.

[bachus_anonym]

nice work, Hell-Fire... with this OVP there's really weird thing happening to my PSU...
3.63v was max i could set the pot to. anything higher would shut it off. but that was when i had R9800P in my system, iirc. ATM i'm using GF4200Ti and max is 3.81v... but unfortunately, for some reason anything more than 3.47vdimm makes it fluctuate as hell under heavy load (especially during Mem Band benchmark in Sandra).

anyway, way to go, man :thumbsup:

[Hell-Fire]

Originally posted by bachus_anonym
nice work, Hell-Fire... with this OVP there's really weird thing happening to my PSU...
3.63v was max i could set the pot to. anything higher would shut it off. but that was when i had R9800P in my system, iirc. ATM i'm using GF4200Ti and max is 3.81v... but unfortunately, for some reason anything more than 3.47vdimm makes it fluctuate as hell under heavy load (especially during Mem Band benchmark in Sandra).

anyway, way to go, man :thumbsup:

I havent had time to run any tests with it to see how she responds under load. Odd that it would flux all over the place like that considering that these supplies have such good regulation typically.

Besides taking a voltage reading from the connector running off the psu, have you checked it on the board as well?

[bachus_anonym]

in general it doesn't fluctuate in "normal" usage at 3.45 vio but under HEAVY load (such as reading, writing and moving large memory blocks) it does fluctuate.

here's how i measure voltages:
3.3v - atx connector (it doesn't fluctuate much there, 3.80-3.79v)
vdimm - left leg of the mosfet 3.45v - actual vdimm.
high vdimm - middle leg of the same mosfet - max vdimm possible at particular 3.3v vio.

results Prime95:
large in-place FFT 1024 (high vdimm pretty much stays at 3.70-3.71 and vdimm does not fluctuate)
large in-place FFT 4096 - 8192 (high vdimm drops all the way down to 3.59v with vdimm fluctuation 3.43 - 3.45v)

results Sandra (Mem Bandwidth Burn-in):
high vdimm drops to 3.53v (!!!) at the end of the each loop and fluctuates A LOT... vdimm fluctuates at 3.43 - 3.45v as well. at the same time 3.3v rail fluctuates a bit more, 3.80-3.77v

so i actually started thinking that vdimm voltage regulator is at fault here... unfortunately, i can't remember if same pattern was present before vtt-mod... i could possibly see problem here too..

[Chipzfriar]

Great work, Hell-Fire. You definately know your stuff, I have a quick queston 4U about this PSU. Since I ordered mine with all 3 external, if I replaced them with "better" pots (please define better, if you can), would that allow me more range in adjustability, and would I really need more than 10% on any rail in the 1st place? From what I think I've seen, the only one that may need more than that is the 3.3v.

Would it be a simple remove/replace since they have wired them externally, or would I have to dig into the PSU like you did in the above example to make more modifications?

Thanks for all your advice/info, you're a great resource and are highly appreciated!

[Hell-Fire]

Originally posted by Chipzfriar
Great work, Hell-Fire. You definately know your stuff, I have a quick queston 4U about this PSU. Since I ordered mine with all 3 external, if I replaced them with "better" pots (please define better, if you can), would that allow me more range in adjustability, and would I really need more than 10% on any rail in the 1st place? From what I think I've seen, the only one that may need more than that is the 3.3v.

Would it be a simple remove/replace since they have wired them externally, or would I have to dig into the PSU like you did in the above example to make more modifications?

Thanks for all your advice/info, you're a great resource and are highly appreciated!

If you indeed have the actual external pots that are just connected to wires, then yes, you can simply remove the external pot and add a pot with a "larger value" in resistance.

I would think that a 2K pot would be sufficient for all 3 rails.

But to answer your other question, I would think that the only rail I would be concerned with for now would be the 3.3v rail. If you are already hitting somewhere between 12.25-12.5v on the 12v rail, and 5.25-5.4v on the 5v rail....those are plenty high. My opinion is that as long as the 12v and 5v rails are actually 12v and 5v (maybe slightly over), then all you should be concerned with is that those rails are steady under load. In fact, I would keep them as close to 12v and 5v as possible. But thats just me.

Good luck with it, and pay attention to how they have their pots soldered to the wires because you should re-solder those wires to the new pot(s) in the same fashion to avoid any problems.

[computerpro3]

I can verify for 100% sure than 2k pots are fine on the rails as that is what pcp&c put on mine when I asked them to make it adjustable more. My lines came stock @

3.3 @ 3.61
5 @ 5.15
12 @ 12.15

Not bad at all for no tweaking at all I think. OH btw this psu gained me 15mhz FSB in dual channel. NOthing else changed and when my antec goes back in I lose 15mhz. So much for psu's not affecting overclocks. This thing absolutley kicks ass, not to mention looks great.

Except I think I got a refurb...There are scratches all over the black casing that are covered up with permanent marker and some black wax. Did this happen to anyone else? I'm thinking it got scratched while they were modding it to make it more adjustable.....

[Hell-Fire]

Originally posted by computerpro3
I can verify for 100% sure than 2k pots are fine on the rails as that is what pcp&c put on mine when I asked them to make it adjustable more. My lines came stock @

3.3 @ 3.61
5 @ 5.15
12 @ 12.15

Not bad at all for no tweaking at all I think. OH btw this psu gained me 15mhz FSB in dual channel. NOthing else changed and when my antec goes back in I lose 15mhz. So much for psu's not affecting overclocks. This thing absolutley kicks ass, not to mention looks great.

Except I think I got a refurb...There are scratches all over the black casing that are covered up with permanent marker and some black wax. Did this happen to anyone else? I'm thinking it got scratched while they were modding it to make it more adjustable.....

The stability of the psu rails under heavy loads, like high Vdimm, certainly plays a role in it.

They prob scratched it up a bit modding it. I wouldnt worry about it to much, unless this is a show case and the scratches really stand out on it.

I scratched mine up pretty good just moving it around on my desk. Of course my desk is covered with wire snippets, and sodler balls from modding...so cant really complain.