Swiftech mcw6500 w/ pics and benches

[Mankz_91]

Nail varnish or polish i guess.

[Solarfall]

Nail varnish or polish i guess.

yep it has to be something like. what i don't understand is that why does it has to so much of it, then again it's allways better to be safe that sorry

[theelectic]

What is the red stuff all over your board?

Red conformal coating, like this:

http://www.crazypc.com/products/9349.html

[oshox]

I want your case! What is it?

[TopherTony]

i dunno exactly what it is but it is to keep condensation from ruining the board. Maybe non conductive paint or such.

[Holst]

Looks like red nail varnish to me.
Not sure why there is so much, it looks like the sort of thing you would do for LN2 benching or dry ice (where you get condensation everywhere)

[seedomo]

This was my first MB with below ambient temps so I kinda went extreme with the conformal coating. It comes in handy at unexpected times... like when you remove the pelt assembly to change the chip. Since I kept the tubing attached, I had to hover the tec above the motherboard and the condensation on the cold plate dripped onto the motherboard. I wasn't expecting that, just caught me off guard. Glad to have overdone it!

[seedomo]

Very interesting results as I try to get to 4GHz with my new Week 29 chip. Since it only takes 1.35 volts to get 3.6Mhz, you would think that this would be a great overclocker... you'd be wrong! I'm confused by the results.
Cooling = Swiftec MCW6500 TEC 226 watt TEC
MB = EVGA 680i
Pelt PSU 300watt Meanwell at 13.8 Volts

Strange results in temps:
Week 44 chip @ 3.7 GHz:
Needs 1.6 Volts for stablity. temps 8-35 (idle/load)Celcius Using Orthos Small FFTs
Week 29 chip @ 3.7 GHz
Needs 1.45 Volts for stablity. temps 9-41 (idle/load)Celcius Using Orthos Small FFTs

Sooooo... why are the temps the same? If the needed voltage is less on the Week 29 chip, shouldn't the temps be lower as well? Can the amperage be different on the two chips? Amps*Voltage=Watts

One more thing is that the Week 29 won't even post any higher than 3.75 MHz even at 1.685 VCore but will run stable at 3.50 using only 1.5 volts!

[theelectic]

Sooooo... why are the temps the same? If the needed voltage is less on the Week 29 chip, shouldn't the temps be lower as well? Can the amperage be different on the two chips? Amps*Voltage=Watts

One more thing is that the Week 29 won't even post any higher than 3.75 MHz even at 1.685 VCore but will run stable at 3.50 using only 1.5 volts!

You're looking at it the wrong way. There is usually very little correlation between two chips, even if they came off the same wafer right beside each other. Adding more voltage does not scale linearly, and the fact that a chip can run faster at a lower voltage just makes it cooler, it doesn't mean it will reach higher speeds. If anything they are often WORSE overclockers as you're finding now - just like the EE AMD chips, which can run at a lower voltage than standard chips, but top out at a much lower speed.

Also going by your temps YOU'RE OVERSHOOTING YOUR TEC! SWITCH TO A STRAIGHT WATER SETUP!

[seedomo]

One more thing is that the Week 29 won't even post any higher than 3.75 MHz even at 1.685 VCore but will run stable at 3.50 using only 1.5 volts!

Typo: I meant to say that it will run stable at 3.75 with only 1.5 Volts but will NOT even post at 3.80 with 1.685 Volts

Thanks for your responses, I'm learning very quickly thanks to everyone here.

[serialk11r]

I think its time for you to get a new TEC Those 320W (460something power consumption) TECs on ebay look...juicy

[davekusa]

Some chips also have a wall. No matter how much voltage you thow at it.

[Holst]

You have to remember that its not only the chip that matters.

PSU will often have an effect as you increase the wattage drawn.

Memory can also be a factor.

IMO this is one reason that some people get consistently better overclocks than others.. they try multiple boards, ram and PSU untill they get a combination that works.

I think your TEC is definatley adding an extra layer of complexity.

as your temps are higher with the new chip there are a few possibilitys.

Chips temperature sensors are not calibrated.. hence the difference.
Bad mounting of TEC block.. Have you checked the mount and remounted?
This chip just pulls more amps at the same voltage (I think the difference is too much for this to be true, but im not a CPU expert)

How much effort is it for you to change to straight watercooling.. got a spare CPU block?

[theteamaqua]

so hows the insulation?? i mean do i need to do anything to insulate it?? or does the kit has all u need? to insulate

and yeah for that 4.2Ghz vs 3.8Ghz .. the 4.2GHz is prolly ur speed if it were 9x multi, which is not. the 3.8GHz is real

[Vinas]

Windows messes up your clock with e6600 at 8x multi for some unknown reason... Trust your bios or your mutiplier.

You might try upgrading your PSU. I'm not saying this is the problem, but it quite possibly could be holding you back! Before I upgraded I was stuck at 3.5GHz using the same setup in my sig, except for the PSU which was a (somewhat) crappy bfg 650watt. After upgrading to the PCP&P 750 silencer I was able to achieve 3816MHz.

Vdroop is a problem for me too. At 3800MHz I had to run at 1.700v only to turn it up even further to 1.725 to get 3816MHz!!! vdrop puts the vcore down to about 1.625... A vmod is in order here, but like you I have NO CLUE how to do it on my mainboard.

I'm also limited by my high air temps using the Scythe Infinity -- dual fan mod + pressure mod. I think the key is plenty of clean power + lower stable voltage. I think vdroop could be killing both of our max clock.

My sig says 3.9GHz, it's not Orthos stable! Had to go back down to 3.8GHz (477*8) until we can figure out how to go further.

Very interested to see what you're able to find out here.

[Roger_D25]

seedomo,
I just ended up reading through this whole thread and was very interested in it as I've considered TEC setups in the past but don't know a whole lot about them. With that said I think you have done a great job with it, especially since this was your first go around with a TEC setup! Obviously it can be a bit frustrating when results arn't fully understood or expected ( like the results you had between your old chip and the new chip you got). Although it stinks since you just bought this chip, theelectric was right about the processors. Unfortuenlty voltage needed for certain clockspeeds isn't a good indicator for max overclocks (I've also made that mistake in the past)!

Anyway there have been alot of good suggestions given as to what might be holding you back. I don't want to sound like a broken record but you might want to try without the TEC if only for testing purposes. This will help you to get a better understanding on how your TEC is effecting and is being effected by the CPU voltage/load. Another important aspect that a few people have brought up is your PSU. Although your PSU might be more than enough for the components your running, once you really start to push things like your CPU (especialy with the high voltages your using) the PSU starts to become a much more important peice to the puzzle. Plus you have alot of extra hardware on this rig (namely 12x high-end 74GB Raptors, a decent graphics card, and a power hungry CPU!

Since it is somewhat easy to test, I would really consider testing out another power supply if you can (either borrow one from a friend or just buy another one). You can always benefit from a better supply and the more you push your system the more important it becomes. I have read through threads were people have seen big gains by upgrading their powersupplies and I really think you'd also benefit highly! By the way does your Antec 550w have the 8-pin plug for the ATX_12v connector or just the 1 4-pin? If your supply only has the 1 4-pin this could quite easily be seriously effecting your CPU stability as that is exaclty what that connector does.

Anyway this is just something to consider as I'd like to see you get this sorted. If you end up selling that Swiftech TEC block of yours let me know as I'd happily take it off your hands (along with the Meanwell supply)!

EDIT: Anytime you change the default multipler your monitoring software might get messed up. I find that certain proggys can deal with it and some can't.

[seedomo]

Wow, thanks for the thoughtfulness of your message. Its very helpful. I will be getting a regular water block and additional PSU based no your suggestions. I'm also getting another motherboard since I didn't use enough grease in the socket and water got under the socket and shorted it! I must have changed the chip ten times without a problem and then it happened. I've dried it out with a floor heater in the bathroom overnight, and it didn't help. Just a quick question, should you put grease directly on the 775 socket pins before putting the chip in? Just want to make sure the grease won't prevent the pins from forming a connection, ya know.

[Roger_D25]

Take this answer with a grain of salt because I'm not sure. With that said I would think it's certainly not a problem putting greese onto the actual CPU BSEL pads (the little contact points on the backside of CPU are called BSEL pads) because the pressure used to hold the CPU into socket is substantial, enough to allow a perfect connection despite having greese on the CPU. By the way thanks for the kind words, happy to help out! For me the fun part is learning about all this stuff and testing it! I give you credit because I havn't gained the confidence yet to try TEC cooling myself! On a separate note what part of the city do you live in? I occationally stay with my brother and his wife down in Chelsea (no laughing), lol!

[serialk11r]

Well you can take the TEC and coldplate off the block and use the top part as a normal waterblock. I can imagine it would perform well...saves some money as well.

[Vinas]

Go to autozone like I've done in the past and ask for dieletric grease. It's cheaper than ordering online and the same as this:
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/22...05&id=9LdgfLtV

Apply liberally to the CPU socket trying to eliminate as much air pockets as possible. Clam the cpu in the socket, notice the excess comes out. Either take the cpu back out and reapply, or just wipe the rest up. I like to take the CPU out and reapply just to make sure there's no air pocktes.

I use the above method on my test rig cooling system. -9C water.

[Roger_D25]

Also going by your temps YOU'RE OVERSHOOTING YOUR TEC! SWITCH TO A STRAIGHT WATER SETUP!

theelectic,
When you posted the above to seedomo, what exaclty did you mean? I totally agree with what your saying, I just want to understand the concept behind it? Thanks for taking the time to reply!

[serialk11r]

theelectic,
When you posted the above to seedomo, what exaclty did you mean? I totally agree with what your saying, I just want to understand the concept behind it? Thanks for taking the time to reply!

What he meant was, the heat the processor was putting out was EXCEEDING the TEC's capacity, which causes the HUGE temperature increase (TEC cannot pump any more heat, acts as insulator. Heat has no place to go, processor heats up). I think seedomo needs a 320W (460W power) TEC undervolted to 85% volts or so. Better, a 437W undervolted to 75% volts (about 50% power).

[Roger_D25]

Bingo, that is what I thought so thanks very much for clearing it up for me!

[theelectic]

theelectic,
When you posted the above to seedomo, what exaclty did you mean? I totally agree with what your saying, I just want to understand the concept behind it? Thanks for taking the time to reply!

Everything is explained far better than I can do in the TEC FAQ sticky:

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38367

*) A 40watt TEC cooling a modern processor generating 60-watts of heat.
Delta T = -34C (negative 34C). That’s an INCREASE in temperature on the cold side, so the processor would have been warmer than before! Using an under powered TEC can destroy the processor. Cooking your CPU with your TEC is NOT a good thing, avoid this common mistake.

Swiftech states on the MCW6500-T page (in the lower colored graph) that at a 150W heat load with a MCW6500-T and 13.8V PSU, the IHS temp should be around 15C over the ambient temp, same as straight water. Now look what happens when the heat load passes that - at 175W the IHS temp is around 30C over ambient, compared to straight water (yellow line) where it's around 20C. With that high of a heat load, the straight water setup is better than the TEC setup.

Why is this the case? The 226W TEC is not 100% efficient, meaning it cannot move 226W of heat from cold side to hot side and maintain its rated temperature difference. Most likely it's around 50% efficient at best.

In one of seedomo's many previous threads, he stated his CPU on-die temp was something like 48C and his coolant temp was 32C (sorry if the numbers are off, I don't remember them exactly and I don't want to slog through a bunch of threads to look it up). That would mean two things: if coolant is 32C then the hot side of the TEC has to be higher than that. If CPU on-die is 48C, then the IHS surface (cold side of TEC) has to be slightly colder than that - remember heat moves hot to cold. Do the math: if the IHS is supposed to be below 48C, and the hot side above 32C, and the TEC is rated for 67 temperature difference, there's something wrong since the temp difference is only 16C, when the TEC is rated for 67C delta T. If the TEC is working properly in its range, then the temp difference should be more than 16C.

[Holst]

Just to clear up on the dielectric grease.

As long as its propper di-electric stuff then its safe to put it inside the CPU socket and all over the CPU pins.
You cant really use too much, you just make a mess if you do.

Sorry to hear that the motherboard is dead
But i hope the new one will be a better overclocker.