(bad?) idea

[KennethChong]

Physics and chemistry major here. (Which was about as useful in getting a non university job as a theology major.)

Based purely on 10 years of reading reports, if you don't do anything stupid you wont have any issues, besides optical drives and disks.

When I was at Cambridge many moons ago, we had a -20ish night that I took advantage of. I had an old 40gb drive that was killed after about 2 hours. There the thing you really have to watch. But I'm not sure how much now, as I'm sure most run much warmer than that one did. It would probably take Germany to kill most of them.

[epion2985]

Dryer than many places I've been to lol. Anyways, I'm curious why this would be a bad idea for him but not for others who have tried it. Why can't you keep your pc off and throw a fan on it or something when bringing it inside?

Because just because your computer is off doesn't mean there isn't any voltage across the circuits, hence capacitors etc.

I have also tried it, and I have also fried hardware this way. I am not saying it can't be done, just saying he should know there is a chance his computer might not make it.

In "my personal opinion" the less risk the better, I don't have money to throw around, hence bad idea. But thats not so for everyone, some people are ok with the risk so its not a bad idea for them. A lot of overclockers fry thousands of dollars of hardware on monthly bases just for the sake of the hobby, its a personal call.

When I was at Cambridge many moons ago, we had a -20ish night that I took advantage of. I had an old 40gb drive that was killed after about 2 hours. There the thing you really have to watch. But I'm not sure how much now, as I'm sure most run much warmer than that one did. It would probably take Germany to kill most of them.

Sorry for your loss

[KennethChong]

Sorry for your loss

They were damn expensive back then! It still pisses me off.

Good point though. Yet from your phase change work that I've read you don't seem like the sensible low risk overclocker. Great work btw!

[epion2985]

They were damn expensive back then! It still pisses me off.

Good point though. Yet from your phase change work that I've read you don't seem like the sensible low risk overclocker. Great work btw!

now you really got my interest, I pretty much never post my work because it never gets finished and polished enough for me not to be embraced with in this community, so what is this great work of mine lol

[SexyMF]

I think the question is "What do you hope to achieve by benchmarking outside"

I also muse at 'Majored in..... ' That means, what, you did a paper on something in your final year of higher studies?


And about voltages on capacitors..... we are talking voltages which will not short under condensation unless it is crazy excessive (and dirty).

[itznfb]

just to give my experience, i've been benching at close to -20C ambient for years. rarely do i see any condensation. i've never had a dead part from benching outside. i actually just finished benching my C2D rig outside yesterday. was -15C ambient. i generally let it sit inside for 24 hours before i fire it back up in regular indoor ambient just to avoid any problems from possible condensation.

[epion2985]

we are talking voltages which will not short under condensation

Thats a meaningless and for the most part wrong statement. Condensation doesn't conduct, its a change of state. The condensate in question is water, and water conducts electricity.

Now I am going to assume you meant to say "the amount of water that will result from condensation in this situation will not be enough to short anything", which is frankly empty words as there are to many variables you don't know. In my case there was more then enough to do some damage, which it did.

just to give my experience, i've been benching at close to -20C ambient for years. rarely do i see any condensation. i've never had a dead part from benching outside. i actually just finished benching my C2D rig outside yesterday. was -15C ambient. i generally let it sit inside for 24 hours before i fire it back up in regular indoor ambient just to avoid any problems from possible condensation.

Again the point isn't that it cant be done its that there is risk involved, and should be noted, thats all. You are fine I killed a motherboard, now what? ... Don't ever guarantee anyone their things will be fine unless you plan on replacing them for the person.

[itznfb]

Again the point isn't that it cant be done its that there is risk involved, and should be noted, thats all. You are fine I killed a motherboard, now what? ... Don't ever guarantee anyone their things will be fine unless you plan on replacing them for the person.

there is inherent risk in benching. IMO there isn't any more risk involved. i've killed hardware with a little too much voltage, but i knew that might happen before i did it. just like i know damage might occur if i take it outside.

[epion2985]

there is inherent risk in benching. IMO there isn't any more risk involved.

No, the risk is not inherent of benching. The two have no connection. You do not have to take your pc outside to bench neither do you have to bench to have your pc outside.

just like i know damage might occur if i take it outside.

well the op doesn't know, otherwise this thread wouldn't be here.

[itznfb]

why do you insist on arguing.

No, the risk is not inherent of benching. The two have no connection. You do not have to take your pc outside to bench neither do you have to bench to have your pc outside.

if you feel there is no risk in OCing/benching, then you really don't know what you're talking about. but from your response, i just don't think you know what the word inherent means.

well the op doesn't know, otherwise this thread wouldn't be here.

the op was already told about the risks involved with sub-freezing ambients. he is perfectly capable of deciding if he is willing to take those risks or not.

[epion2985]

if you feel there is no risk in OCing/benching, then you really don't know what you're talking about. but from your response, i just don't think you know what the word inherent means.

Wrong. Re read what I said. There are risk with benching, however they have nothing to do with taking your pc outside. I merely pointed out a fallacy you made. The risks of taking the pc outside are not inherent of benching.

the op was already told about the risks involved with sub-freezing ambients. he is perfectly capable of deciding if he is willing to take those risks or not.

so why did you start posting here

[itznfb]

I merely pointed out a fallacy you made.

an example is not a fallacy.

The risks of taking the pc outside are not inherent of benching.

that sentence doesn't even relate to the statement i made. not even close.

so why did you start posting here

to strengthen the argument that its perfectly safe to bench outside if you just take your time and watch for condensation if benching for extended periods of time.

------------------------------------------------

@flclisgreat, you see by the examples provided that there is nothing bad about the idea of benching outside. just watch for condensation, insulate the board if you're really worried about it.

[epion2985]

an example is not a fallacy.

that sentence doesn't even relate to the statement i made. not even close.

@flclisgreat, you see by the examples provided that there is nothing bad about the idea of benching outside. just watch for condensation, insulate the board if you're really worried about it.

You didn't make an example you made a fallacy. Fact is you didn't loose hardware, I did, one exception breaks any rule to the point where you cant say "perfectly safe" and 100% good. Risk is obviously there.

[serialk11r]

Of course there is risk, there is risk in any sub-ambient cooling, there is risk in overclocking itself, there is risk it watercooling, and people take these risks. Its up to yourself whether you think its worth it or not.

[{.bLanK} GoD]

[SexyMF]

@Epion

Thats a meaningless and for the most part wrong statement. Condensation doesn't conduct, its a change of state. The condensate in question is water, and water conducts electricity.

It is not meaningless you prat. You think you know everything. I am a professional electronics engineer with years of real-world experience beyond a BE,ESTA and ESTB qualifications. I see this stuff everyday.

Life is obviously way to risky for you. Don't try anything, you are exposing yourself to a risk. A risk is far too much for Epion to handle. Climb back into your box. Get somebody to seal it up and shield your eyes and ears from theses forums. The risk taking is crushing you.

All you add to this forum is warning after warning and put people off. Sitting up high being pedantic and picky. Anytime somebody points anything out, you try and crush them with purported intellect and experience.

Just go away. I'm sick of you.

[Absinthe]

I am sooo going to try this.


I don't need no stinking ss, Ive got tons of fresh -18c, just sitting outside my window.

[serialk11r]

@Epion



It is not meaningless you prat. You think you know everything. I am a professional electronics engineer with years of real-world experience beyond a BE,ESTA and ESTB qualifications. I see this stuff everyday.

Life is obviously way to risky for you. Don't try anything, you are exposing yourself to a risk. A risk is far too much for Epion to handle. Climb back into your box. Get somebody to seal it up and shield your eyes and ears from theses forums. The risk taking is crushing you.

All you add to this forum is warning after warning and put people off. Sitting up high being pedantic and picky. Anytime somebody points anything out, you try and crush them with purported intellect and experience.

Just go away. I'm sick of you.

Ouch...
I remember him telling me that if I got a drill press I would end up with a hole in my body or something :P

[[XC] gomeler]

I am sooo going to try this.


I don't need no stinking ss, Ive got tons of fresh -18c, just sitting outside my window.

Now that is the spirit


Now in regards to the risks, there is always a risk everytime you fire up your computer. Electronics are not invincible and some components simply fail over time. Benching surely doesn't help the lifetime of hardware considering how we rarely bench at stock speeds and voltages. Take a peek at DDR2, it's rated for 1.8 volts, we routinely dump 2.4 volts through those chips, that's an enormous jump. Taking your gear outdoors is a risk but it is a calculated risk and you have a large amount of control and with some common sense it can be done safely. Should you take your gear outside when it is raining? Sleeting? Hailing? Snowing? How about if it's a crisp -15 celsius night with low humidity and a clear sky? I won't even answer these as I think it is rather obvious. This is XtremeSystems and we take risks to get the last few MHz out of our gear, there is nothing wrong with taking a few risks just realize that the moment you fire up that processor that you risk losing everything. Don't let a few members sour the taste of benching, there is nothing more pleasurable than watching your system boot up at ridiculous clocks over and over again. Be safe guys and report back with those results, there's a thread in the Xtreme Overclocking subforum about below zero aircooling. Now back to trying to get 4.4 GHz stable on my E6400 @ -40 celsius, little nubs with your -15 celsius air

[epion2985]

It is not meaningless you prat. You think you know everything. I am a professional electronics engineer with years of real-world experience beyond a BE,ESTA and ESTB qualifications. I see this stuff everyday.

Life is obviously way to risky for you. Don't try anything, you are exposing yourself to a risk. A risk is far too much for Epion to handle. Climb back into your box. Get somebody to seal it up and shield your eyes and ears from theses forums. The risk taking is crushing you.

All you add to this forum is warning after warning and put people off. Sitting up high being pedantic and picky. Anytime somebody points anything out, you try and crush them with purported intellect and experience.

Just go away. I'm sick of you.

I am not here to put anyone off. When I was new here and learning, people like walt and others made sure I knew what I was doing and what could result, as they still do. In fact walt waves the red flag a lot more then me. I'd like to think pointing out potential unwanted results and outcomes is a good thing and am myself grateful for all the pointing out that was done on the behalf of jin, walt (wdrzal), runmc, etc to me.

There is nothing wrong with taking a risk, as long as you are informed about it. Taking a risk while unaware of it is another matter.

The only thing I was saying is that heavy condensation is possible if the conditions are right and that water conducts electricity and the consequences that go along with it. If you don't agree I feel bad for your employer and hope you go back to school. As for the insults, clearly your maturity and conduct insult you more then anyone else.

[[XC] gomeler]

Technically water doesn't conduct electricity, the dissolved minerals in water does the conducting So if you had a clean-room clean enviroment you could have the system coated in condensation and the system would be ok. But I think we have all cleared up the issues at hand, it's a calculated risk which some may undertake and others will safely avoid. If you ever see ice forming up on a board then shut everything down and pull the powercord as once that melts to water it'll mix with the dust particles and potentially become conductive.

[epion2985]

Technically water doesn't conduct electricity, the dissolved minerals in water does the conducting So if you had a clean-room clean enviroment you could have the system coated in condensation and the system would be ok. But I think we have all cleared up the issues at hand, it's a calculated risk which some may undertake and others will safely avoid. If you ever see ice forming up on a board then shut everything down and pull the powercord as once that melts to water it'll mix with the dust particles and potentially become conductive.

I think thats incorrect. Pure ionized water conducts electricity, and condensation from room air is either ionized or gets ionized pretty fast.

[SexyMF]

If you don't agree I feel bad for your employer and hope you go back to school.

Oh yes you are so mature with your veilded insults. The classic go back to school insult. Yes..... and where is your location as per your profile "my pants". Very mature.

It hardly stops me as a professional who actually knows about and deals with electricity every single day.

Just go away and get back into your bubble suit.


Oh and don't forget to bring your car battery inside tonight. It is a whopping 12V. If the temperature outside gets to low condensation might lead to a malfunction, maybe an explosion, death or such. Don't take that risk.

[Nefilav]

Only time I had condensation was when it was 30 degrees and rediculous humidity while the chiller ran at -25. It was ever so slight, a few drops fall into the AGP slot. I noticed the water forming earlier but wanted to finish my Diablo 2 duel. I won the duel and then the water finally fell and shorted my vid card. Only damage was some oxidation on the AGP traces which was easy to clean off, still runs like it should.

If its freezing, how can condensation realistically form? I'd haul my PC outside to find out but its heavy and seems to run all the programs/games I need already on plain WC. My chiller already showed me what my hardware can do at max, but running it 24/7 was annoying and I can tolerate 20 less fps in a game, or encoding something being 5 mins longer.

I might bench my newer 7900GTO+socket 754 Venice outside with the Canadian winter, now thats extreme cooling. It would be easier then setting a chiller up and idiotproofing it AGAIN. I could have purchased a nice SS or custom chiller, but I learned way more by building my own terribly noisy fender bender noob chiller.

No, I have no engineering degree, but this forum has a lot of information and helpful people which without it would have taken a lot more trial and error to build anything. No sense in bashing each other over whats risky and what is acceptable, thats all relative to personal opinion.