Very good point as well. I think our evaporator designs need to improve.
Very good point as well. I think our evaporator designs need to improve.
If you have a cooling question or concern feel free to contact me.
Noob what sort of cold plate are you using with that load tester. I have started using a 3mm plate to better simulate the cpu.
Unless using a 1hp compressor I don’t think 1/3hp compressor or smaller have enough cold return for a SLHX to work. To stop the flooding of a compressor you need a longer capillary line and charge so at load ya getting 15psi or so at load for capacity. If discharge pressures are too high maybe try a not so high pressure gas like r507 or r404a. I have though of mybe trying s M.B.P compressor instead of L.B.P compressor we have used in the past to run 0-5psi load like in older systems, using a M.B.P compressor might give us better loading results at this pressure and not hurting the compressor at the same time.
Also we need to look at our condensers more and measure the drier temps at load. I have been noticing liquid lines in the 37c and even 40s in the Aussie summer weather systems traped inside cases benching orthos for a few hours. Push pull fans on condenser will help with temps and also needed for higher pressure gasses we use. Im not sure if you have noticed but by shortening capillary lines too short results in driers that are so so hot hurting remps. Also too short a capillary line results in flash gas and discharge pressure that casue crazy compressor temps.
Conversations with jin drewminister I think their using 215w or so. I currently can only do 0-190w, but will so get a some new resitors to run 0-260w for cascades ehehe.
I recently modded a mach2 Gt with the head that was on wasn’t able to hold load very well. First thing I did was cut the accumulator out and changed it to one of my new heads and sent it off last week. I think I used around 2.7m of 0.031” so when the owner gets his Q6700 will report results. Also the 1/3hp dual head unit I made a little while back is going to cool a Q6700 soon, so from their results hopefully ill know what sort of wattage I need to tune future units to.
Would a larger condenser not lower filter temperatures as well as a good bit of subcooling of the capillary and or/filter drier? But driers don't work that cold I heard.
If you have a cooling question or concern feel free to contact me.
A larger condenser could remove more heat though from the system, along with push pull fans. The thing with subcooling though is you not actually removing any more heat, just lowering the liquid temp before it enters the evap. This is done anyway by wrapping the capillary line around the suction line. You increase capacity of a system by doing this but you still need to get the heat out of the system through the condenser still. If you attach a temp probe just before the drier you will be surprised just hot warm the liquid line is getting. Then you look at a pressure chart to see what pressure you need to properly condenser the refrigerant using and see that its quiet high. By having a too short capillary line you get more flash gas and find that the refrigerant is partially condensing and the a lot of flash gass getting into the capillary line. It most properly condenses in the capillary line, but if it isn’t then its just like having air in the system it wouldn’t help temps, just increase discharge pressure/ which increases compressor temps effecting system temps overall.
Using this program a Q6700 at 1.7v and 4.7ghz we have 425W, but I don’t believe those figures that’s just insane.
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp
maybe the time has come where ppl just cant run max vcore anymore and vmods are out for sure. For max vcore and vmods ppl are going to need cascades and LN2 tubes.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=130922&page=2
Yes, but thats why I'm moving to .036
If you have a cooling question or concern feel free to contact me.
The 3 defining factors in capacity are the condensor (and it's airflow), the evaporator, and the metering device (commonly captube in these systems).
The temperature is defined by the refrigerant used and the compressor's ability to move the refrigerant.
This is NOT the end of the story, however.
A properly tuned system should never have liquid floodback, or at least very very little at no load.
The systems we build are very small, and it's very difficult to make them large enough to increase the capacity over what we've been using as a standard.
Wrapping the captube isn't simply for subcooling, it's for heat exchange. It's part of what allows for charging heavily without liquid floodback in a small system. That in itself IS a slhx system. It's just not quite enough when looking for higher loads.
A SLHX isn't just for cascades or for larger compressors, it can be used with any compressor and still be effective if it's needed.
When it comes to captube tuning, the captube and the refrigerant charge should be matched and superheat should be checked so that the system is effective and safe in use. This is part of why I recommend increasing heat exchange on the return if a higher capacity is needed. If this is not done, liquid can and will return under low load.
I suppose people can do what they want as far as tuning goes, but if it's not done properly, and the other reactions dealt with correctly, it can create a system that's designed to fail prematurely.
Gray
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
are you saying i shoulden't buy a mach2gt fore a qx6700?
Yes if you plan to overclock much..
If you have a cooling question or concern feel free to contact me.
I should get an tuniq tower over a mach2gt? and yes i'm ocing much
LoL defintitly not, but instead look for a custom phase unit instead thats designed for that size load.
If you have a cooling question or concern feel free to contact me.
I can't quite figure this out. Is TDP the total wasted (heat) power of the CPU or the power used by the CPU in total, including its secondary function i.e. processing (lol)?
http://download.intel.com/design/pro...s/31559202.pdf
Minimum Tc 5C lololol oh rly?
Last edited by stone_cold_Jimi; 01-22-2007 at 12:52 PM.
TDP = Total amount of heat DISSIPATED by the cpu = It's the maximum amount of heat expelled by a particular cpu in the worst possible conditions, i.e. closed case with no airflow, hot ambient, etc.....Originally Posted by stone_cold_Jimi
Until either Vapo or Prometeia are offered in high load capacity (as the VapoLS previously was) then it doesn't make much sense to buy one if a Quad core is what you'll be using.
If you plan for upgrading to quad core later on, and you're happy with a mach or vapo, then fine. You can always look at it to be modded later on. It's still an extra expense, but some people prefer the safety of a retail unit over custom.
I'm sure you'll find someone who can take care of that for you though, there are quite a few experienced builders here on XS.
Gray
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Not when you feed the liquid in from the top and let it evaporate on the way down like this.
I've pointed the Vapochill site forum at this thread, got an interesting reply and a reference to a paper suggesting that evap head material and flow-rate might be critical factors (other than choice of gases), without customising for specific CPUs. But how much for a solid silver evap head?
http://www.home.zonnet.nl/wijdeveld/cooling/part1.pdf
It's all interesting stuff, especially to a noob like me
[popcorn smilie]
I dont think that changing cap tube is the solution for the bigger load problem.
From what i understand you want to add more subcooling to the liquid, but by doing that you add superheat to the vapour which means you have to dimension the sistem to an even bigger load.
Bottom line, you still have to reconsider the sizing of the compressor and condensor.
You guys thanks fore the warnings but i'll definitly try cooling my quad core with vapo. i meen i just don't know a better cooler you can buy off a store so i'm just gonne have to go with this
Just so ya know.......You guys thanks fore the warnings but i'll definitly try cooling my quad core with vapo. i meen i just don't know a better cooler you can buy off a store so i'm just gonne have to go with this
Been there, done that. Didn't work.
Have a QX6700 on P5B Deluxe. Was running aprox. 3.4ghz/1.4vcore with TTBT/fan upgrade air cooling. Decided to dive into phase. Bought Vapo LS. Installed. Got up to around 3.86ghz/1.56-1.6vcore. Ran about 2-3 weeks like that, seemed to hold at around -32c. Then things went away. Now I have to back down to 3.53ghz/1.35vcore or the LS evap time goes up,up, up until the LS shuts down at -10c. Had to play with the evap fan speed to even hold that, running it at 40%. If I increase the fan speed, temps go up, shutdown. Right now it is holding at -42c, but very touchy. Don't know what went away in the LS, but it is not a lot better than air at this point.
NoL is working on a custom build for me with a compressor much larger than the standard LS (SC12MLX vs the standard NF5.5CLX) and a much larger condenser (about 8" x 8" x 2" vs about 5" x 5" x 2").
I had at least one or two people in this forum reccomend a custom build to me back in December when I was first tossing around the idea of going to phase for my quad. Silly me, I didn't know enough at that time to realize they were right.
Live and learn.
Sooooo.....maybe you can chalk it up to a bum unit, but I would not count on being able to push a quad to it's limits of clock and vcore with a stock Vapo LS. Not trying to tell anybody what to do, just sharing my experience for everybody's benefit.
doesn't mach2gt outperform vapochill ls?
I know one thing....
esdee's cascade with Eleven's evaporator can handle a QX6700 at 3850MHz with 1.68VCore which is aprox. ~340 - 350Watts at -89*C under FULL load....
Eleven's evaps proves to be No1 for heavy load.....
INTEL PWA FOR EVER
Dr. Who my arss...
.........
Do you have a pic of this special evap?
I think you can't compare singlestages with cascades!
Eleven evaps are built in a horizontal plane generally so all evaporation occurs at the same distance form the base. No doubt they are great evaps, but are milled eand not lathed so some people don't have the tools.
If you have a cooling question or concern feel free to contact me.
Cant generalise like that, both units have different evaps, compressors and gasses, and hence characteristics.
Bring back the rev1 LS, lol, it was all the talk of lower temps over the "usual heat load range" in the first place which got Asetek to lower the capacity. They should have stuck with it!
You can use a GT or LS with a quad core, but will probably not be able to run the max overclock 24/7 given the high heatload.
You should still be able to get a decent overclock, and quad core with a decent overclock is still stunningly quick.
G
i don't seem why, tuniq tower 120 can hold a qx6700 at 4 ghz. so i think 4.2 ghz stable will work. anyway i'm going fore low temps at well not just maximum oc. i don't want my chip to run higher then 50c load
What about Intels slightly dodgy way of deciding on a TDP?
if the worst case scenario is taken for a TDP rating, that leaves it open to a lot of variables, isnt the power output of the CPU itself constant under all conditions? the only thing that will be different is temperature.
350W for an OCed Kents seems very high, scaling that would put the actual TDP of Conroe around 90+W, not 65W?
About the problem in hand, *VPC aint my strong point* but how many custom builders would choose a DSH coil over a larger condenser? Condenser does the job so much better.
Last edited by K404; 01-23-2007 at 10:26 AM.
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