Anyone seen the D-Tek Fuzion yet??

[darcon]

Wow...now I'm not sure if I want to wait till next week to see the new Swiftech blocks before putting my WC together...I'm getting antsy!

[QuietIce]

Excellent work, h20 frag-monger!

Hmmmm... on wikipedia I saw that diamond has superior thermal conductivity to anything. I think its because of the way the carbon molecules are "patterned" in the allotrope. Then would some manmade carbon thing (such as nanotubes) be able to create a superior block to all previous blocks?

IIRC industrial grade diamonds are much cheaper than nanotubes or buckyballs ...

[xforce]

nice results.

looks like there's only 1 fuzion left at d-tek before they got sold out. wow that's some fast moving block...

[MaxxxRacer]

Very nice results H20. Its quite amazing what the Fuzion can do with a large heat source, especially considering the low pressure drop.

One thing odd though. The actual values of all of the pressure drops seems a little high to me. Not saying the relative values are incorrect, but that the actual values at a given flow rate seem a bit high.

Now I'm interested to see what it can do on C2D sized cores with IHS.

[Petra]

Very nice results H20. Its quite amazing what the Fuzion can do with a large heat source, especially considering the low pressure drop.

One thing odd though. The actual values of all of the pressure drops seems a little high to me. Not saying the relative values are incorrect, but that the actual values at a given flow rate seem a bit high.

Now I'm interested to see what it can do on C2D sized cores with IHS.

It looks like he was using 3/8"OD fittings... which would account for the increased pressure drop, if that's what you're thinking of.

As far as the C2D thing goes, I'm gonna check next door and see if they can groove and lap my E6400 by Friday night so that I can put the last pieces of my test rig together over the weekend. I know that I don't have the greatest instruments but, given enough well performed trials and some averaging, I should be able to produce something meaningful/useful.

[Philly_Boy]

OK, it's almost 2am Las Vegas time which means it's 4:45am east coast time, where I am from. In other words I am waaaay too tired to do the detailed review of tonight's happenings.

We just reran the tests with a much more methodically set up test bed - lapped Kentsfield, new EVGA 680i board, 2gb of Corsair ram and a better controlled ambient temps in our "lab". The CPU was oc'ed to 3466mhz. Gabe, the CEO of Swiftech was on hand as well as Free Cable Guy and myself for the testing.

We took multiple readings over the course of a half hour run on each block using core temp after loading the CPU up with four instances of CPU Burn 5. We ran each block until we felt it had settled in its performance, so each block had a slightly different running time. We averaged the four cores loaded temps and subtracted the ambient temp from that average and recorded that data as the delta T.

The Apogee GT with a bowed base actually out performed the best run of the FuZion by about 3c. I can also say that the FuZion is a flow meister!! The test bed's water loop never bled fully during any run on the Fuzion and altho we didn't have any type of flow meter on the system, I saw far more turbulence in the res than when we ran the Apogee GT block.

I will break out a seperate thread with detailed results of this including pics tomorrow after the show lets out.

[rosco]

One thing odd though. The actual values of all of the pressure drops seems a little high to me. Not saying the relative values are incorrect, but that the actual values at a given flow rate seem a bit high.

Yeah, there are out, at least twice higher from the true value (from my own measurements and I have the same results as Swiftech and Lee, all checked). Even in 3/8" for Apogee, pressure drop @ 1GPM is only ~48 cmH2O = ~0.70 PSI.

Results from a 30x30 source are quite useless for us, even under an IHS, too much spreading. Heat flux is completely different from a "normal" situation, you can't conclude anything from such design here.

[welshtom]

well, now i dont know what to believe !! D-tek havent got back to me at all either.

[BillA]

post deleted
sorry guys, go back to your business

[WeStSiDePLaYa]

oh yay, now we are getting back to big name people taking cheap shots at others.

How do these people survive in business when they seem to take everything so personally and then go and make childish comments.


on topic though, this is a very promising looking block. looks like alot of thought went into it, and it should yield good results.

also, finnally people are learning that you dont need high restriction to have high perfomance. and wc seems to be moving away from that mentality.

[IanY]

visibly (sorry to say that PhillyBoy, I'm only relating) you are not really competent to make tests. It's clear you are too hurried to make quick and unreliable conclusions on topics like here or in your other thread about GPU with strange results too... You seem less enthusiastic than yesterday about the results... Where is the champion ? What will be the results tomorrow ? The opposite again ?

The point is that at least he tries hard. If you are going to pass judgment that he's not competent, it implicitly means that you are competent. I believe that there was an open invitation to everyone to go to Vegas to participate. Why didn't you? He's just relaying the results of the tests and I, for one, appreciate that. Perhaps we can all come to our own conclusions without resorting to insinuation and inflammatory remarks?

[rosco]

It wasn't my comments, eh

[IanY]

It wasn't my comments, eh

Sorry. I am not clear whose it was, but never mind. My point is that PhillyBoy is busting his ______ and there's a whole bunch of backseat drivers chiming in without getting their hands dirty.

[Turtle 1]

HI guys . Just got back earlier this morning. First time in Vegas. . Me and wife spent most of our time gambling and going to shows. Daughter spent a lot of time at Ces. Some cool stuff.

Anyway ontopic . The comments about unrestricted flow are infact correct. In racing we have to use restrictors all the time .

But I must say this is being taken out of context. If The only block in the system was the cpu . Than MAYBE I could buy into this. But if you run a 1 loop threw multi. blocks. Flow wil be restricted by the complete system .

Some of these test that are being run Have nothing to do with real world. Single loop. Chillers without Rad. Come on guys your scewing things . Flow threw a block is a valuable measurement. But in real world its the flow threw the system that matters. in a 5 block system running 1 loop the flow threw the fusion will = the system flow. The D-tek is a great block and will add less restriction to the total system flow.
Thats why you always here me referr to a good system as being Balanced.
the Apogee is a nice block and so is Fusion. In a restrictive system I would choose the Fusion to help balance the system .
A good water cooling system is the Sum of it components and the implamentation of a balanced flow through all of it components.

[h20 frag-monger]

OK, it's almost 2am Las Vegas time which means it's 4:45am east coast time, where I am from. In other words I am waaaay too tired to do the detailed review of tonight's happenings.

We just reran the tests with a much more methodically set up test bed - lapped Kentsfield, new EVGA 680i board, 2gb of Corsair ram and a better controlled ambient temps in our "lab". The CPU was oc'ed to 3466mhz. Gabe, the CEO of Swiftech was on hand as well as Free Cable Guy and myself for the testing.

We took multiple readings over the course of a half hour run on each block using core temp after loading the CPU up with four instances of CPU Burn 5. We ran each block until we felt it had settled in its performance, so each block had a slightly different running time. We averaged the four cores loaded temps and subtracted the ambient temp from that average and recorded that data as the delta T.

The Apogee GT with a bowed base actually out performed the best run of the FuZion by about 3c. I can also say that the FuZion is a flow meister!! The test bed's water loop never bled fully during any run on the Fuzion and altho we didn't have any type of flow meter on the system, I saw far more turbulence in the res than when we ran the Apogee GT block.

I will break out a seperate thread with detailed results of this including pics tomorrow after the show lets out.

hmm, did anyone even know there was gonna be second challenge, or was it just a bunch of guys from swiftech in the room...i would like to see some thrid party results of fuzion vs apogee gt

[[XC] DragonOrta]

HI guys . Just got back earlier this morning. First time in Vegas. . Me and wife spent most of our time gambling and going to shows. Daughter spent a lot of time at Ces. Some cool stuff.

Anyway ontopic . The comments about unrestricted flow are infact correct. In racing we have to use restrictors all the time .

But I must say this is being taken out of context. If The only block in the system was the cpu . Than MAYBE I could buy into this. But if you run a 1 loop threw multi. blocks. Flow wil be restricted by the complete system .

Some of these test that are being run Have nothing to do with real world. Single loop. Chillers without Rad. Come on guys your scewing things . Flow threw a block is a valuable measurement. But in real world its the flow threw the system that matters. in a 5 block system running 1 loop the flow threw the fusion will = the system flow. The D-tek is a great block and will add less restriction to the total system flow.
Thats why you always here me referr to a good system as being Balanced.
the Apogee is a nice block and so is Fusion. In a restrictive system I would choose the Fusion to help balance the system .
A good water cooling system is the Sum of it components and the implamentation of a balanced flow through all of it components.

1. You don't seem to realize that the testing method you want would add too many variables to be considered as reliable. And what other blocks would you have them use to get this "real-world" loop you have in mind. We could either add a Maze4 GPU block(which doesn't have much restriction) or we could add an MP-1 block(which is about as restrictive as GPU blocks come), or should we instead add a full-cover block, as people also use those.

2.Anyone with a brain already realizes the things you point out and in doing so, takes them into consideration when choosing a waterblock.

[berk]

hmm, did anyone even know there was gonna be second challenge, or was it just a bunch of guys from swiftech in the room...i would like to see some thrid party results of fuzion vs apogee gt

Here Here!!!

[Turtle 1]

hmm, did anyone even know there was gonna be second challenge, or was it just a bunch of guys from swiftech in the room...i would like to see some thrid party results of fuzion vs apogee gt

I been wondering since your first lerker post. Thats some nice test equipmet you have.

So my question to you is this. Whats your relationship to D-Tek. If you have an agenda lay it out. AEG tactics suck. Your affectation in this thread, Leads myself to believe that you work with or at D-Tek. Come forward and say so. So all members know you have a bias.

I am sure you have legit questions about the second day of testing as do I.
Differant times used in the test and the decision as to when to record a temp . All very questionable.

But these threads should not be used to promote products. Yes I know its being done and I won't mention any names . But its very plain to see. Maybe fugger should put a stop to it. I don't know .

But your approach to this thread is kinda upsetting to myself . With the equipment your using. Your far more than a casual participant. Lay out your agenda so we can make subjective decisions.

[berk]

He's just asked for third party results hasnt he?

Send the blocks to Ed Stroligo or Radical-53.

[Turtle 1]

1. You don't seem to realize that the testing method you want would add too many variables to be considered as reliable. And what other blocks would you have them use to get this "real-world" loop you have in mind. We could either add a Maze4 GPU block(which doesn't have much restriction) or we could add an MP-1 block(which is about as restrictive as GPU blocks come), or should we instead add a full-cover block, as people also use those.

2.Anyone with a brain already realizes the things you point out and in doing so, takes them into consideration when choosing a waterblock.

These are help threads. Many people with brains are new to water coooling
So they are not yet oriented to water cooling systems. Sometimes pointing out the obvious. Is helpful to people who are new to something. You don't learn to swimm by talking about it. You have to go into the water first. It would help tho to know you shouldn't panic and to keep head above water.

[syne_24]

lol so much uncertainty when it comes to these test. To the point I dont think nobody believes anything unless it was broadcast live or something. So I guess Petra, you're up next..

[IanY]

This is getting too caustic for my taste. I was wondering what sort of regular water cooling enthusiast has ready access to such sophisticated water block testing equipment.

Without lobbying any accusations, I would comment that there is too much commercial interest here. I have no problem with manufacturers / employees of manufacturers vying for precious consumer dollars. However, I have a problem with all the maligning that I see. Person A is not qualified or not an engineer, etc etc, without Person A being present to represent himself.

I see all these mumbo jumbo charts and graphs showing Brand X is better than Brand Y and Brand Z, and guess the source of the charts? That's right.. from the esteemed labs of Brand X, under ideal conditions for Brand X. I see that with blocks, pumps and radiators. I also sense tremendous bias in supposed independent reviewers, and pre-conceived prejudices against certain equipment whose surprisingly good performance gets summarily dismissed and attributed to an anomaly. Worse still, I see Brand X being gloated about by the forum public because of Brand X's owner's representation in this forum, with almost haloed-like status, without Brand Y and Brand Z representation and the respective owners' ability to defend their own products.

Sorry for my rant. I just had to blow off some steam.

[situman]

I'm interested in seeing how it performs with an IHS. Put a slab of metal between the heat source and the block.

[virtualrain]

This is getting too caustic for my taste. I was wondering what sort of regular water cooling enthusiast has ready access to such sophisticated water block testing equipment.

Without lobbying any accusations, I would comment that there is too much commercial interest here. I have no problem with manufacturers / employees of manufacturers vying for precious consumer dollars. However, I have a problem with all the maligning that I see. Person A is not qualified or not an engineer, etc etc, without Person A being present to represent himself.

I see all these mumbo jumbo charts and graphs showing Brand X is better than Brand Y and Brand Z, and guess the source of the charts? That's right.. from the esteemed labs of Brand X, under ideal conditions for Brand X. I see that with blocks, pumps and radiators. I also sense tremendous bias in supposed independent reviewers, and pre-conceived prejudices against certain equipment whose surprisingly good performance gets summarily dismissed and attributed to an anomaly. Worse still, I see Brand X being gloated about by the forum public because of Brand X's owner's representation in this forum, with almost haloed-like status, without Brand Y and Brand Z representation and the respective owners' ability to defend their own products.

Sorry for my rant. I just had to blow off some steam.

QFT

As an average water cooling enthusiast, I find this forum an incredibly valueable source of information as the people here are highly knowledgeable however, I've come to learn that the brand loyalties here extend beyond reason.

At any rate, I look forward to more testing results... where's Nikhsub1's results?

[Helmore]

I been wondering since your first lerker post. Thats some nice test equipmet you have.

So my question to you is this. Whats your relationship to D-Tek. If you have an agenda lay it out. AEG tactics suck. Your affectation in this thread, Leads myself to believe that you work with or at D-Tek. Come forward and say so. So all members know you have a bias.

I am sure you have legit questions about the second day of testing as do I.
Differant times used in the test and the decision as to when to record a temp . All very questionable.

But these threads should not be used to promote products. Yes I know its being done and I won't mention any names . But its very plain to see. Maybe fugger should put a stop to it. I don't know .

But your approach to this thread is kinda upsetting to myself . With the equipment your using. Your far more than a casual participant. Lay out your agenda so we can make subjective decisions.

Maybe you should reread the entire thread again, because it might be that you missed it, but he clearly stated that he works for SUN. We ofcourse all know that you can say anything you want in a forum, but I do trust him for the moment.