Anyone seen the D-Tek Fuzion yet??

[Petra]

I'm thinking Petra should start stocking these things

Oh, don't worry.... we've known about this block for some time now.

That aside, the convex base is a bit of a dirty trick (granted, it was the same thing I was thinking of doing had I had time to get a design to the shop for CES). I'm still of the opinion, however, that both designs (Swifty and D-Tek) are somewhat short-sighted.

[Helmore]

I'm sorry but I didn't get you at "both", you mean the Fuzion and the Apogee GT?

[dietwaterrr]

Oh, don't worry.... we've known about this block for some time now.

That aside, the convex base is a bit of a dirty trick (granted, it was the same thing I was thinking of doing had I had time to get a design to the shop for CES). I'm still of the opinion, however, that both designs are somewhat short-sighted.

Wouldnt it perform worse if your cpu was lapped flat?


*off-topic*
hey petra, when are u getting more stock of those aquaxtreme barbs for the PA series?

[nikhsub1]

FWIW, I did not find much of a difference (in fact none) from the way i received the block (convex) to lapped flat.

[Petra]

Wouldnt it perform worse if your cpu was lapped flat?

It's quite possible that it could... may also be an issue if CPU manufacturers fix the problem on their end.

*off-topic*
hey petra, when are u getting more stock of those aquaxtreme barbs for the PA series?

They're on order... so, it'll likely be at least two weeks before we have more in the warehouse.

*edit* Thanks for pointing out that that the convex base is the unintentional result of post-assembly base flex, Scott.

[flou]

It's quite possible that it could... may also be an issue if CPU manufacturers fix the problem on their end.

Yes, but then can't you lap also your waterblock?

[rosco]

I'm not sure that people realize what 5°C means, it's quite a big difference ! There's a trick or a mistake somewhere, or maybe a bad mounting (see above), I don't know... Who made the mountings and verifications ? How much mountings were made ? What T° are taken ? etc.

Flatness remains the easiest way to go because you can find convex, concav or distorted IHS on Intel&AMD processors. A slightly convex base could be quite good on some, but awful on others... No prediction and unfortunatly, each case is a special case.

[IanY]

In fact, on the Kentsfield IHS, isn't the space between the two dies generally convex and then the space between each die and the outside perimeter of the IHS convex again? What sort of scientific conclusions do these people come to in designing their blocks? Its like cherry picking the best possible cpu stepping and then making a broad generalization about the overclockability of a particular cpu ? What if a cpu (Big Guy forbid) is actually not concave or irregularly concave in different regions?

Now I feel like an idiot for ordering two on impluse. Thankfully they are only $60+ each

Oh well, at least its better than an old Apogee and that it cannot be substantially worse than anything else out there, and I desparately need something better to tame the cpu heat

[Graystar]

I'm not sure that people realize what 5°C means, it's quite a big difference !

Yes, so big as to clearly be (from my own personal point of view) absolutely impossible.

When SystemCooling.com tested the Apogee and Storm, Lee Garbutt measure less than a 7 C difference between the water temp and die temp at 0.5 GPM for the blocks mentioned, and a mere 4.5 C difference for the Storm at 2 GPM.

5 C is obviously impossible, and 5 F, which is 2.78 C, seems far fetched.

[Fr3ak]

If possible, can you tell us the shop that will have it available in Europe?And when?

I dont know any shop yet that will get the block, but I will try to find out.
The only German shop I know that sells Swiftech blocks is aquatuning, so chances are that they will be selling the Fuzion aswell.

Usually American watercooling stuff is hard to get, at least in Germany, so its still possible that no shop will get the Fuzion :/
Hopefully that wont be the case.

Edit:

Yes, so big as to clearly be (from my own personal point of view) absolutely impossible.

When SystemCooling.com tested the Apogee and Storm, Lee Garbutt measure less than a 7 C difference between the water temp and die temp at 0.5 GPM for the blocks mentioned, and a mere 4.5 C difference for the Storm at 2 GPM.

5 C is obviously impossible, and 5 F, which is 2.78 C, seems far fetched.

No offense, but you dont seem to believe anything on the net. Though you had good points, I think you overdid it a little in North's thread about his new block.
Now you are doubting the measurement that has been done by qualified people.
Of course its not a scientific measurement done in a lab, but the people installing the blocks and testing them know what they do.
Oppainter was also involed from what I read and he is a Xtreme legend and working for Swiftech, so I dont think he would claim the Fuzion is 5C better than the Apogee GT if he wasnt completely sure that the numbers posted are right.

You can always get both blocks and test them by yourself and tell us with hard numbers that the testing done cant be right.
Saying its impossible because block 1 is only xC better than block 2, so block 3 cant be yC better than block 1 doesnt really help.

A lot of people also didnt think that several NB waterblocks dont make much of a change. In a review done by a German hardware magazine, the temp difference between the best and the worst block were more than 20C. And one of the worst blocks has the same design than the best CPU block made in Germany, so go figure.
I wouldnt be surprised if there will be even better blocks than the Fuzion out, that are build after the current design, without using some kind of new technology.

[andersson.j]

vcore.dk sells D-TEK.

[serialk11r]

I see you posting that all the time, but you never back up your statement. Accurate test results please.



And you somehow seem to know what reading is correct or not?

Okay I'm sorry, I just learned something yesterday, forget about the coolrad thing. Oh and, I know the AiBooster one has to be more off because the room temperature was only a tiny bit below that, and when you get giant differences like that, there has to be something wrong. Besides, the ASUS temp monitoring is all done through onboard sensors, so it CANT be accurate, if you know what I mean. Well I refuse to accept that my processor is 2 degrees C above room temperature when I put my finger under the motherboard where the CPU is and feel something hot.

[h20 frag-monger]

convex or not, i think the performance is due mostly to the hundreds of tiny pins, impingement, and a low restriction quad outlet....i'm almost done testing all three blocks on my test bed at work,... fuzion has some pretty impressive flow rates btw

anyone have a apogee gt i can get my hands on to add to this test?

[nikhsub1]

fuzion has some pretty impressive flow rates btw

anyone have a apogee gt i can get my hands on to add to this test?

Yes the fuzion has some crazy flow rates. So good infact that it is nearly impossible to bleed my system with it! I will have an Apogee GT tomorrow Then I can post the results of Fuzion vs. G5 vs. Apogee GT.

[Fr3ak]

Nice nik, looking forward to the results
More results we get from people with different setups, cant hurt.

Flowrate comparisons are very interesting aswell. Why cant now be tomorrow, I cant wait to see some more numbers lol

[nikhsub1]

Fr3ak, I won't have numbers until likely Friday, perhaps saturday

[Fr3ak]

No problem. Better take your time and be sure to have accurate results than rushing to get some inaccurate numbers.

I can wait
No way to get the block anywhere in Europe right now, so a day more or less doesnt matter.

Btw there are some shops listed on the D-TEK website that are supposed to sell it, but right now, the Fuzion is not being listed.
Linky: http://www.dtekcustoms.com/index.asp...on=Custom&ID=3

[Graystar]

No offense, but you dont seem to believe anything on the net. Though you had good points, I think you overdid it a little in North's thread about his new block.

I believe Lee Garbutt. I believe the fluid dynamics info I read on Engineeringtoolbox.com and other sites. I believe manufacturers specs such as Tygon radius specs.

But I can see your point. I don’t believe when someone claims he’s got a waterblock design that will beat the Storm by 10 C when every test of the Storm demonstrates that there just isn’t that much head room. I don’t believe when someone says to use a thinner walled tubing to get a tighter bend when the manufacture’s spec clearly state otherwise. I don’t believe when people say faster flow improves cooling when there’s never been a single controlled test by a trusted source that proves it, and when the anecdotal evidence from test performed by owners of D5s have shown that faster flow might be actually be detrimental. So yeah, if someone makes a statement like it’s a fact, and he can’t prove it, then I don’t believe it.

And Northwizard deserved a tongue lashing for all the disparaging remarks he made about the top blocks. He still have people believing his mythical block is absolutely better than anything else. But hey...like everyone else you’re entitled to your opinion and I respect that.

I hope you notice that I prefaced my “absolutely impossible” with “from my own personal point of view.” It’s not a fact, it’s simply what I think. If the stated results turn out to be true I’ll be happy to applaud along with everyone else.

[cdelong]

Yes the fuzion has some crazy flow rates. So good infact that it is nearly impossible to bleed my system with it! I will have an Apogee GT tomorrow Then I can post the results of Fuzion vs. G5 vs. Apogee GT.

I turned my D5 down to 1 or 2 and my system bled pretty quickly. I never had to drop the speed to bleed before.

BTW.... are you somewhat a believer now

[serialk11r]

I believe Lee Garbutt. I believe the fluid dynamics info I read on Engineeringtoolbox.com and other sites. I believe manufacturers specs such as Tygon radius specs.

But I can see your point. I don’t believe when someone claims he’s got a waterblock design that will beat the Storm by 10 C when every test of the Storm demonstrates that there just isn’t that much head room. I don’t believe when someone says to use a thinner walled tubing to get a tighter bend when the manufacture’s spec clearly state otherwise. I don’t believe when people say faster flow improves cooling when there’s never been a single controlled test by a trusted source that proves it, and when the anecdotal evidence from test performed by owners of D5s have shown that faster flow might be actually be detrimental. So yeah, if someone makes a statement like it’s a fact, and he can’t prove it, then I don’t believe it.

And Northwizard deserved a tongue lashing for all the disparaging remarks he made about the top blocks. He still have people believing his mythical block is absolutely better than anything else. But hey...like everyone else you’re entitled to your opinion and I respect that.

I hope you notice that I prefaced my “absolutely impossible” with “from my own personal point of view.” It’s not a fact, it’s simply what I think. If the stated results turn out to be true I’ll be happy to applaud along with everyone else.

The thing is, some things people claim can be seen to be true because of science/common sense. Someone with thinner tubing walls will get a tighter bend, but the tubing itself might kink or deform. And more flow should increase performance, but not by a lot. So I judge things by my own scientific knowledge and understanding of the way things work.

[nikhsub1]

I turned my D5 down to 1 or 2 and my system bled pretty quickly. I never had to drop the speed to bleed before.

BTW.... are you somewhat a believer now

NO doubt it is a good block. Better than my G5? What do you think?

[serialk11r]

Hmmmm... on wikipedia I saw that diamond has superior thermal conductivity to anything. I think its because of the way the carbon molecules are "patterned" in the allotrope. Then would some manmade carbon thing (such as nanotubes) be able to create a superior block to all previous blocks?

[cdelong]

NO doubt it is a good block. Better than my G5? What do you think?

I'm lovin' it This is only the second full day on the Ceramique as well. I've found Ceramique takes about 2 weeks to cure real good.

My PA120.2 will be here next week and I'm going to mod my Antec 1080B SOHO- II, so I can fit it inside. That should net some really low resistance compared to this BIX-II. Right now the BIX-II is sandwiched between four fans on top of my case.... not bad to the eye, I just want it all inside the case. I'm hoping to get the same performance with the PA and two fans as I am now with the BIX-II and four fans. Whatta ya think?? Maybe

Oh... and what about the price point and availability!! Not too shabby either.

[Graystar]

The thing is, some things people claim can be seen to be true because of science/common sense. Someone with thinner tubing walls will get a tighter bend, but the tubing itself might kink or deform.

But if it's kinking then they're not actually getting a tighter bend.

And more flow should increase performance

But it doesn't.

And BunBun threw a fit when I said that the turbulence inside 1/2" tubing was greater than the turbulence inside the Storm waterblock...until he proved it to himself.

In this area, the things people have deduced using common sense have proven to be more wrong than right. That is why I try hard to make sure that everything I say has some reasonably trustworthy data to back it up. I make sure of that because I know that common sense isn't good enough.

[SiGfever]

Well I got confirmation today from D-Tek that my Fuzion shipped out. Now the wait begins.