!!! Updating the Watercooling Guide !!! Everyone Please Take a Look

[Dragoon42]

I just setup my first custom WC setup and I kept going back to your guide 1000x. I pretty much think everything is clear and pretty easy to understand. The only time I posted a question was about the T-Line.

In your parts section you list all the stuff for 3/8" and 1/2". Maybe if you just seperated the parts to 3/8" setup and 1/2" setup instead of all jumbled in one.

The guide saved me a lot of time though THANKS!!

As far the coolant section goes, I just assumed that zerex would keep things from growing and help lower the temps a bit. The coolant section was pretty straightforward

[Petra]

1 drop of Spectrus (biocide) + 1 drop of Continuum (corrosion inhibitor) + 1.5oz glycerine (raises water's thermal conductivity co-efficient) to a litre of distilled water according to Hound53. If you can't get that, then Zerex at 5%.

Hound53 is going to be mixing up some Continuum and sending it to us; however, the mix will not include Spectrus as he feels it's too hazardous to be working with... So, we're going to have to figure something else out, as far as biocide goes. Anyway, the nice thing about this stuff is that a tiny bit goes a long way (e.g. the final mix results in a concentration of about 56 ppm Continuum) and, at his request, we'll be donating a portion of sales ($1/botle sold) to the local SPCA.

Whee, I get to mix chemical :banana::banana::banana::banana:tails for you guys...

[Kayin]

I've used a few drops of bleach (drops only, nothing more) as a biocide. Never hurt anything as far as I can tell...

Any interest in how to run methanol/acetone as a coolant without killing stuff? I did it before to reduce weight (Methanol weighs 60% of what water does) after a car accident permanently screwed up my left arm, learned lots of stuff the hard way...

As far as tubing, you can also use clear polyvinyl/polybutyl, if you can find it, and for those using 1/4 or 6/8mm, vinyl in those sizes is more than acceptable (used it in six rigs so far, no kinks, no issues.) Silicone is also an option, though it's not clear.

Last, but not least, I'm about to pick up a Thermaltake Tidewater (I know, that name, but bear with me) and mod it with a full-cover block to do full loop watercooling that's removeable and can be carried from place to place. Found out that the only difference between the dual and the single block version is the number of blocks-same pump, rad and fan, so that means it has some overhead. Probably not for EVERYTHING, but I have some fun ideas in store...

[oshox]

I'd like to see more case recommendations, mostly under $100. The $100-$200 range certainly belongs to the CM Stacker T01's. I'm sure there's people who'd be interested in seeing what $200+ cases work best for water cooling, too.
I'd also like to hear a proffessional opinion on the MCB-120 Radbox. Will it hold a PA120.3, the heaviest radiator I know?
Recommendations for GPU blocks for the most popular VGA cards. I know that the type of block won't make much of a difference in performance, but which ones are easier to mount/unmount?
Any information about NB cooling. I know NB blocks aren't recommended, but removing the airflow generated by the CPU's HSF nullifies the benefit of passive NB heatsinks. Good motherboard/aftermarket heatsink combos would be appreciated.

[Bad213Boy]

one thing ive also found annoying is that when ordering all your parts and you end up not having the right screws for mounting fans to radiators, shrouds, and grills. it'd be nice to know what size screws work with certain set ups, so you dont end up puting holes in your beautiful rad

[hoax]

@ Marci: thanks for sharing that info!

EDIT: I just checked the FAQ by hoax, and questions like 'I was wondering what the experts thought would make the best coolant?' prove that people would ask a question and have the answer come to them, rather than searching for it in the big(est) leak testing guide, that's just how they do, so we either need a FAQ or a guide like your components guide in which we have a list of top five of each group of W.C. parts where there is no dilemma of which is the best, you have it all in one place and no need for reading like whole pages in search for an answer...

Marauder16,

Thanks for bringing it up... I wanted to explain it yesterday but it was so late I couldnt really think anymore... When I made the suggestion to Max to add a FAQ to the guide is because during the (short) time I been around the forums, I have seen those questions come up quite a few times.

The problem is that I suggested to add it in the end of his guide... and only once I started writing it I realized...who would need a FAQ after such a great guide? Seriously... if you actually read it all...there is no need for a FAQ. So I tried to come up with the top 10 non-searching lazy-begginers FAQ. I am guilty of doing it myself... I couldnt read the entire guide when I first got here.. I was still unsure about water cooling and it just looked "too complete".... "I just need to ask a couple questions.."...

I believe that's the only reason this questions keep poping up around here.. basically because people are too lazzy to read something that big until they are sure water cooling is right for them. Even tho it has all the information anyone could possibly want.

Thats why I used the posts from users to answer them instead of just giving you the questions.. I was trying to make it look like a "compiled search on the basic information you may be wondering about"

Well... if you guys think having a FAQ makes no sense to begin with...by all means lets just forget it...if not...maybe we can just fix it up a bit see how it looks...

cheers
hoax

[thunderstruck!]

one thing ive also found annoying is that when ordering all your parts and you end up not having the right screws for mounting fans to radiators, shrouds, and grills. it'd be nice to know what size screws work with certain set ups, so you dont end up puting holes in your beautiful rad

Here's from the online store sticky:

Pan Head Phillips Sheet Metal Screw, Black, #6 Size, 1-1/4"----90935A155 - For mounting 25mm thick fans to HWlabs, Swiftech and Coolingworks Radiators

2 threads about the thermochill rads and screws (should be included in the new sticky)

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100946
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=118515

[Petra]

Here's from the online store sticky:

Pan Head Phillips Sheet Metal Screw, Black, #6 Size, 1-1/4"----90935A155 - For mounting 25mm thick fans to HWlabs, Swiftech and Coolingworks Radiators

Actually, since we're on the topic of using the correct screws, the Swiftech radiators use M3.5 threaded machine screws... not sheet metal screws.

[marauder16]

Well... if you guys think having a FAQ makes no sense to begin with...by all means lets just forget it...if not...maybe we can just fix it up a bit see how it looks...

As I said before, the FAQ is a great idea, so don't even think of forgetting it, like you said, people who are not sure if w.c. is for them they won't read the whole guide so FAQ is the best place for them.

and what oshox suggested, maybe a list of best cases to mount w.c. loop in would be good, but the problem IMO is that the choice of a case very much depends on taste, and basically in any bigger case you can place a loop if modded properly, so it would be hard to make a list for of cases like that so everybody finds sth. for them...

[Bad213Boy]

im having a hard time finding anything regarding the fluid xp + extreme stuff. they state its viscocity is equivalent to water. but everywhere i look on the web i cant find anything regarding people using it with the storm. that'd be one thing id be concerned with. i for one am wayyy to lazy to mix my own liquids and play dr. chemist over here, lol. id rather pay the extra buck and just pick-up a premixed coolant.

but the problem IMO is that the choice of a case very much depends on taste, and basically in any bigger case you can place a loop if modded properly, so it would be hard to make a list for of cases like that so everybody finds sth. for them...

i totally agree. that woud be key to know what works best for what style of water cooling your looking for.

[BigBen2k]

Just keep the thread clean (it's got a lot of unecessary posts).

[thunderstruck!]

Actually, since we're on the topic of using the correct screws, the Swiftech radiators use M3.5 threaded machine screws... not sheet metal screws.

I'm using them now on my MCR220. They appear to work well.

[thunderstruck!]

im having a hard time finding anything regarding the fluid xp + extreme stuff. they state its viscocity is equivalent to water. but everywhere i look on the web i cant find anything regarding people using it with the storm. that'd be one thing id be concerned with. i for one am wayyy to lazy to mix my own liquids and play dr. chemist over here, lol. id rather pay the extra buck and just pick-up a premixed coolant.



i totally agree. that woud be key to know what works best for what style of water cooling your looking for.

You don't need to be a chemist, just use distilled water and (optionally) add 2 tablespoons of Zerex.

[thunderstruck!]

Just keep the thread clean (it's got a lot of unecessary posts).

Maxxx is going to take useful info from this thread and put it in an existing sticky. This thread will be discarded.

[hoax]

As I said before, the FAQ is a great idea, so don't even think of forgetting it, like you said, people who are not sure if w.c. is for them they won't read the whole guide so FAQ is the best place for them.

and what oshox suggested, maybe a list of best cases to mount w.c. loop in would be good, but the problem IMO is that the choice of a case very much depends on taste, and basically in any bigger case you can place a loop if modded properly, so it would be hard to make a list for of cases like that so everybody finds sth. for them...

Cool, I am trying to finish the last ones... but I think you guys just came up with #7:

7) Is there a list of reccomended computer cases that are better suited for water cooling?
posted by marauder16: the choice of a case very much depends on taste, and basically in any bigger case you can place a loop if modded properly, so it would be hard to make a list of cases like that so everybody finds something for them.

[Shpoon]

does the pentiosin come in UV green? I like green over blue (everyone has blue anyway, I want something different) so I was looking at hydrX but I've heard that it can clog stuff up. I only see blue and red pentiosin at petra's so that is why I'm asking.

http://www.blauparts.com/fluids.htm <- red, blue, purple

Can't find green, sorry.

[Bad213Boy]

Here's from the online store sticky:


2 threads about the thermochill rads and screws (should be included in the new sticky)

http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100946
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=118515

i was wondering if i would get more performance out of my PA120.2 if i mounted four yateloon fans on my radiator; 2 pushing and 2 pulling?

i was also thinking about buying more gaskets and another shroud and then mounting 2 fans to the inside of each shroud, one on each side of the radiator (to give a nice finished look)

might be easier for someone to just go buy screws and bolts when mounting to the inside of a shroud no? then no worrys for penetrating the radiator.

[hoax]

sorry guys I moved the old post and edited it some:

===========================================
Begginers Liquid Cooling FAQ
===========================================

This FAQ was created for all begginers, and for those that are just too lazy to read the stickies or do some searching. It's a compilation of some of the most usual responses from experienced members, answering each question that keep showing up:

01) There is just too much information to deal with on these guides!!! Blocks, pumps, rads, barbs, reservoirs...damn...this is no joke.. I am affraid I won't be able to build a decent kit on my own. And I keep hearing bad things from pre-built kits.. Is water cooling still possible for me? I just want a silent, yet properly cooled, xtremelly overclocked system!

posted by seufar: I would definately suggest you try watercooling if you are interested...I would stay away from the prebuilt kits and go for a nice selection of parts from the recommendations of the forum members here... They should be able to hook you up with something.

posted by Khaotic: Absolutly! Water cooling!! FTW!

posted by Aramdin: You're making a big mistake by only thinking about it, just do it !

posted by Vandread: Read the faqs/guides etc!


02) I just found the nicest water cooling kit, and best of all its manucfactured by ___________!! Not only that... It has 2 radiators, and its EXTERNAL...which means NO LEAKS!! And it costs only ______!!! Would it be a good place to start on water cooling?

posted by mhorgel: The best waterblocks, radiators, and pumps are not made by the same company, so any kit you get sacrifices when it comes to at least 1 of the critical components. I have done the kit, and the custom route, and it is a lot more fun and rewarding to do a custom job. I understand that if you are new to watercooling that the myriad of waterblocks, radiators, tubing, barbs, pumps, reservoirs, and fittings can be intimidating. But just read the posts around here, don't be afraid to ask questions, don't be afraid to mess up (it's really hard to kill your CPU, believe me I tried!), and have fun.

posted by SiGfever: As was posted above a great deal of water cooling cost is when you realize that what you bought is either not right for your setup or does not give you the performance that you had hoped for causing you to have to buy new pieces parts. Read the stickies, do the research and then come back. There are soooooo many talented people on this forum that will be glad to help you make an informed decision. I know that the desire sometimes overrides our better judgment causing us to jump into the game before we truly understand the rules. JMO.

posted by septim: buy it right the first time around...

posted by Holst: Another point is that watercooling will last forever... You can buy this stuff now and still be using it in 5 years time. Considering that nothing else (bar case) is going to last that long its a good investment in your hobby.

posted by thunderstruck!: Never rush with water! Please read the stickies before you invest money into watercooling. Most of the money spent on watercooling is due to upgrades after someone purchases a premade kit with little knowledge about it.

posted by Alchemy1: If you are going to do it go all the way. Trust me you will only be on a constant road of upgrade after upgrade and in the end you will have spent more money. That is one thing I have learned about this hobby.


03) What water to use? Distilled?

posted by MaxxxRacer: The only coolant I reccomend is distilled water. It has the best cooling properties short of exotic fluids created by 3m (cost upwards of 1000 dollars to fill your system), has relatively low conductivity compared to regular tap water, and is cheap. There is NO need for all of those so-called non-conductive fluids as NONE of them actually are non-conductive. They have moderately higher resistance than distilled water, but will still dammage sensitive electronics.


04) I was wondering what the experts thought would make the best coolant?

posted by Marci: 1 drop of Spectrus (biocide) + 1 drop of Continuum (corrosion inhibitor) + 1.5oz glycerine (raises water's thermal conductivity co-efficient) to a litre of distilled water according to Hound53. If you can't get that, then Zerex at 5%.


05) I have no skills with any tool other then a screwdriver, and I don't want to mod my case. Is water cooling still possible for people like me?

Yes. Given a proper sized case, you can have your water cooler kit without any modifications made to the case. Have a look at the Water Cooled Case Galery for some inspiration!


06) Is there a list of reccomended computer cases that are better suited for water cooling?

posted by marauder16: the choice of a case very much depends on taste, and basically in any bigger case you can place a loop if modded properly, so it would be hard to make a list of cases like that so everybody finds something for them.


07) I sometimes go to lan parties, or have to move my PC to other places. Can I move a water cooled PC without draining it?

posted by Nicks: Watercooling & case transportation is fine as it is a 100% air tight loop. I've transported my case many times.

posted by Iceman: Transporting PC's always has its dangers be it cooled with air/water or phase - aslong as your carefull and everything is tied down you should be ok. I wouldn't however plan on mounting anything externally as this will more than likely get damaged i.e no plexi reservoirs, external rads


08) I live in _________ and I can't find water cooling parts in local stores. Can you reccomend any stores that will ship to my country?

read here MaxxxRacers Guide to Online WaterCooling Stores


09) What is the most popular tubbing on high performance systems?

posted by thunderstruck!: Masterkleer PVC Tubing 7/16" Id, 5/8" Od, 3/32" Wall Thickness. Part No. 5233K44 at mcmaster-carr. Pretty much the standard now.

posted by nikhsub1: People use Masterkleer, Clearflex, Tygon and Primoflex mostly.


10) How loud is a triple radiator water cooling set up? What is the noise of an single DC pump? Would water cooling reduce the ambient temperature in my room?

posted by creidiki: Its as quiet as the fans you put on the rad. Room still gets just as hot. Pump is dead silent if you decouple it properly - ie, sit it on some foam.


11) How should the water flow in my loop? Pump -> Radiator -> Chipset 1 & 2 -> GPU 1 & 2 -> Reservoir? or _________________?????

posted by Atomicpineapple: Loop order makes no difference as long as your resevoir/tline is before your pump. Overall water temp difference around a well balanced WC loop is less than 1 Deg C.


12) I am on a limited budget. I was thinking of getting a really nice CPU block + the best GPU block I can find and maybe a _______ single radiator?

posted by creidiki: Mmmm.. empyrical evidence would nod towards the idea that youre better off going for a cheaper block (MP-1 CPU, a nice AquaExtreme-built WhiteWater, heck, go apogee) and investing in rad/pump, if youre budget limited.

posted by thunderstruck!: If money is an issue, you should invest it in the right things. Like crediki said, a cheap mp-05 (new or used) with a great pump and rad (let's face it, pumps and rads are around for longer, and now with petra's top, the pump is near perfect) would be a better investment. You should at least get an MCR220 radiator. But if you think about it, in the long road you will want a Thermochill PA120.2/3 and will toss out the $45 you spent on the MCR220. Petty upgrades will cost a lot more in the long run than buying a good performing part in the beginning. Most of the money spent on watercooling is wasted on upgrades. That's why you should save up and do it right the first go-around.



13) Is it better to use the fans in pull or push mode? or both?

14) In general how big is the risk of this thing leaking and killing my hardware?

15) How often does it need maintenance? Do I just add more fluid?

16) What can I use to prevent tube kinks? ( Submitted by: marauder16)

17) Does it make sense to have the most important block right after the pump so that it gets higher pressure

Simply put, NO. The reason for this is that the water pressure inside of the block does NOT matter. As the water passes through each item in the loop (after it leaves the pump) the water pressure drops but the flow remains the same, and it is the flow that matters. What should be considered in loop order is the temperature of the water. Idealy you want the coolest water going into the most important block (usually the CPU block.) To achieve this place the radiator right before the important block in the loop order. This rule can be ignored with pumps that have low enough heat outputs that the water temperature does not change noticeably as it passes through it.


==================================================

well thats all I got so far....suggestions anyone?!

cheers
hoax

[MaxxxRacer]

Actually, since we're on the topic of using the correct screws, the Swiftech radiators use M3.5 threaded machine screws... not sheet metal screws.

I made the thread before swifty switched over IIRC..


Hoax: that last post is awesome. There are a few things that I feel should be pruned out of there, but for the most part they are all great FAQ questions.


*continues to read through thread*

[hoax]

Hoax: that last post is awesome. There are a few things that I feel should be pruned out of there, but for the most part they are all great FAQ questions.

Hello Max,

Glad you liked the questions!

I didnt know if you plan on adding the faq to the your guide, or if you plan to create a new topic for it... But in any case, if anything needs to be removed just let me know, or if you prefer to do it yourself, please dont think twice about changing any of it...

I will see if I can think of any other questions, and if anybody else wants to add a question to the FAQ just reply here or send me an MP and I will edit the previous post.

cheers
hoax

[MaxxxRacer]

At first i was thinking of adding it to the guide but now I'm not sure. I wonder if people will actually click on it if its in a seperate thread.... hmm... I will think more on this matter.

[hoax]

At first i was thinking of adding it to the guide but now I'm not sure. I wonder if people will actually click on it if its in a seperate thread.... hmm... I will think more on this matter.

hehe ok... one suggestion maybe... what if you added a Sections selector on the top of the guide...like the type where you click on a section name and it shoots you down to the section? I dont know how hard it would be to make it...

just a thought..

[MaxxxRacer]

hehe ok... one suggestion maybe... what if you added a Sections selector on the top of the guide...like the type where you click on a section name and it shoots you down to the section? I dont know how hard it would be to make it...

just a thought..

absolutely no idea if I can do that in VB code.. but that is a good idea. I will ask the VB/HTML experts if it can be done here.

[hoax]

absolutely no idea if I can do that in VB code.. but that is a good idea. I will ask the VB/HTML experts if it can be done here.

actually i think you would have to change the guide to html and then post the html code.. but the code is the part I was unsure of.. sorry

[MaxxxRacer]

thankfully I know that you can use both html and vb code. if it was one way or the other I couldnt change it now.. there is about 3hrs worth of typing in vb code for the main guide..