Check this homemade WB out

[Sideroxylon]

So Nate, what's the chances of getting this block off to Skinnee or one of the other reputable testers so we can really see what's up?

I would think that you'd be as interested as the rest of us to see some hardcore testing done on it.

[johnksss]

oh brother!
*faceplam*

[Vinas]

This reminded me of the old DIY waterblock projects... And those guys are correct, it is like adding another rad, or more surface area...
http://www.absoluteinsight.net/576

[crazydiamond]

i think its actually not a bad idea. a waterblock isnt perfect at transferring the heat from the block to the actual water, otherwise they would all perform the same. using this helps remove the heat from the waterblock that doesnt end up getting transferred to the water.

[Conumdrum]

Still, if valid, it would open a whole new idea to CPU blocks.

Suspect, new, not really a trusted source (to me), weak data collection and comparisons. Anyone forward this to GABE yet?

We alreay got 3 ton GPU blocks, why not a LOT more on the CPU socket if it's really that good.

We know nothing about the CPU fan. I WC for quiet. If it's a 2500 RPM silly jet, forget it.

It's really standard for the 'experts' in ANY field going back to the 1600's.

Expert: You built what to do what? No way!

Genius smart guy: Watch

Expert: No way, must be magic or good marketing!

Genuis: Lets use your accepted methods of testing with a cow, a wall, and a Thermocouple

Expert: Wow, let us hash this concept and slam you for a while, steal your patent, and I'll be rich!

It happens.................................

[BeepBeep2]

We know nothing about the CPU fan. I WC for quiet. If it's a 2500 RPM silly jet, forget it.

60mm @ 2500 RPM is no worse that 1500RPM @ 120mm...

[nateman_doo]

60mm @ 2500 RPM is no worse that 1500RPM @ 120mm...

The fan is 90mm.

http://www.xsfans.com/index.php?main...roducts_id=472

It normally runs fairly quiet, but when it is running at 100% you will certainly know its there.

[BeepBeep2]

If I had the money I'd definately buy one of these blocks from you. Don't let flamers take advantage of you

As for the AVC 3800RPM...That's definately a screamer. I guess I'd know because I own a 92mm 3800RPM Silverstone fan. That's louder than my High-Speed 2550RPM Panaflo.

[ButtSprinkles]

Damn, so much flaming going on here.

I think it's a great idea, but as others have said the testing seems a bit off. I think with a little refinement, I'd like to buy something like this.

[nateman_doo]

If I had the money I'd definately buy one of these blocks from you. Don't let flamers take advantage of you

As for the AVC 3800RPM...That's definately a screamer. I guess I'd know because I own a 92mm 3800RPM Silverstone fan. That's louder than my High-Speed 2550RPM Panaflo.

It was running about 3700 RPM, which you could defiantly hear, but at 50% you barely hear anything.

Thank you for your kind words.

[nateman_doo]

Why should I add another radiator? Shouldn't the HK block and my block have the same setup for identical test? That is what separates my block from the HK. it removes heat itself. The HK totally depends on the radiator where mine acts as its own radiator. Lets try to keep high and mighty out of this. I built something that i am VERY proud of and after testing this block as best as I could and as unbiased as I could, the results proved to me it worked. I didn't have to share with anyone here. You are judging my work, and calling it "laughable".

...and don't bash EVGA forums, there is a wealth of knowledge there that you obviously have no clue exists there.

I will re-run the test again later in the week. I should just say screw it because I really don't have to prove anything to anyone, but I am that confident that it will do just as good the second go around.

[tool_462]

The only thing we really question is the massive difference in system temp and other temp sensors between the two tests. Obviously ambient or case temp was greatly changed somehow to result in ~20C rise in all cases on the HK test.

[nateman_doo]

And that will be addressed again.

[Crysyn]

I think the point of this block has been rolled over, and I will say I am glad to see that as Nateman has posted most of the flaming has stopped (Amazing what people will do until they are held accountable for it).

The point: Its a combo block. This entire block just screams of the options it creates. If you want a quiet system, attach a silent fan or no fan and poof, you still have a nice piece of copper helping with heat absorption and dispersion. If you are worried about moving from air to water, then no worries. If you have problems with water then this block has proven to work with air so its a nice safety net for those not looking to take the plunge.

More to the point however, I have to say I think the best application for this block is for people like me.. I have a small case, and while I feel I have ample cooling for my system its not optimal. The simple fact is that I can not run separate loops for my GPUs, CPU and Mobo to keep their heat away from each other. I also can not get overly creative with the ordering of my parts, its pretty much waterblock waterblock waterblock waterblock rad rad res pump, repeat... As has been pointed out this is like sticking a little radiator on your waterblock directly.

Anywho, I do not have a great understanding of thermodynamics but I do know some basics of insulation for both heat and sound. Larger Mass gives you better absorption of energy, and this block is definitely that being nearly 3lbs of copper. Larger Surface area gives you better heat dispersion, and as has been pointed out this is a sizeable block. Increasing the flow of a cooling medium also helps with heat dispersion.. Its water inside the block and air outside the block.

While I applaud people questioning things, dismissal of valid results just shows ignorance or fear of people when dealing with something new. Plain and simple, if your loop looks like the one described then, as the results show, you can get a noticeable change in your loop by swapping to this kind of block. It is giving you quite a few pluses as noted above while requiring a fairly minimal amount of changes (Changing the fittings anyone?) to what you currently have.


PS: When you try to prove your side of an argument by discrediting the person on the other side of it, you have played the 'You are just wrong and I am right' card... Which I hope people who are this critical of testing methods realize does not appear to give you a lot of credibility for proving your side.

[zeroibis]

OMG I have quite a few of those 1U xeon blocks lying around! That HT is from a 603 xeon!

[Sideroxylon]

I think the point of this block has been rolled over...

The point: Its a combo block.

We all get that. It's a hybrid. It gives you options. And that would be fine if it was left at that. But the thing that catches everyone's attention is the stated performance increase.

While I applaud people questioning things, dismissal of valid results just shows ignorance or fear of people when dealing with something new.

And here's where the problem currently is. These are not validated results. Nate himself states that they're crude. For people to accept this claim they're going to have to see someone who's reputable within the hobby do some testing and show the results.

Admittedly, some of us could be a bit more subtle when claiming BS. But, these results that Nate is claiming are pretty incredible. For those of us that have been wc'ing for years and see the 1-2c improvements that the newest and greatest block will give, then to see someone claim almost a 10c improvement over one of the better blocks currently on the market...the BS flags start flying.

Again, people could be a bit more circumspect when questioning these results but it's healthy to question something like this. What I do find funny is just how many people are willing to take Nate at his word and give full credit for possibly the biggest breakthrough in WB design ever.

These kind of results need to be tested and validated. Nate?

[nateman_doo]

Everyone is welcome to call BS on my results. You are all entitled to do so, just please do it in a respectful manner, its only a common courtesy. Thank you Sideroxylon for bringing the overall valitiy of the test to light. Now I may not be perfect, but I did as best as I could to do an unbiased test.

There are 2 things that still vex me.

First. Both core temps peaked around the same time in both tests. Sounds like accurate testing to me. But more importantly, take a look at this chart:


This shows a vertical mounted HK LT block (although optimized) his results look PRETTY SIMILAR to mine. His being just a hair below 69°C with the same stock clocks.

Here is the interesting thing...Look at my results:

My peak temp was 71°C.

Now I may not be perfect, but you saw the crappy setup I made intentianally for this test, and it came within 3°C of skinnee's overall test. Plus it was sitting within .5°C of his overall peak temp when I took the screen shot. Again, I am not perfect, but if I can throw together a test like that, and get the same results with skinnee for the HK block, I think I did ok.

[Utnorris]

We all get that. It's a hybrid. It gives you options. And that would be fine if it was left at that. But the thing that catches everyone's attention is the stated performance increase.



And here's where the problem currently is. These are not validated results. Nate himself states that they're crude. For people to accept this claim they're going to have to see someone who's reputable within the hobby do some testing and show the results.

Admittedly, some of us could be a bit more subtle when claiming BS. But, these results that Nate is claiming are pretty incredible. For those of us that have been wc'ing for years and see the 1-2c improvements that the newest and greatest block will give, then to see someone claim almost a 10c improvement over one of the better blocks currently on the market...the BS flags start flying.

Again, people could be a bit more circumspect when questioning these results but it's healthy to question something like this. What I do find funny is just how many people are willing to take Nate at his word and give full credit for possibly the biggest breakthrough in WB design ever.

These kind of results need to be tested and validated. Nate?

I think what people like me were stating is that it's refreshing to see someone try something new and not rehash the tried and true designs that have been rehashed for the last few years. There is a reason that the best and worst block only differ by a few degrees, open up most blocks and they share some of the same basic design features. I stated last year, even started a thread, saying we needed some innovation in water cooling from all aspects because it was becoming stagnant. It takes folks like Nate to think outside of the box and force the "Big Boys" to rethink their designs. Anyone remember the Stinger, from what I hear it was a pretty sweet block, made by a guy in his garage, same thing with the Storm. Sometimes it takes a person like this to make such outrageous claims to get people thinking differently about the current designs. I am not saying go out and buy this block, far from it (no offense Nate), but look at it for what it is, a design change in CPU water blocks. There is no need for anyone, including Nate, to start flaming because you do not agree with someone's opinion. If you don't agree, state why in a respectful way and see if it gets addressed. People are getting really wound up over this and that is what makes me chuckle.

[Vapor]

Everyone is welcome to call BS on my results. You are all entitled to do so, just please do it in a respectful manner, its only a common courtesy. Thank you Sideroxylon for bringing the overall valitiy of the test to light. Now I may not be perfect, but I did as best as I could to do an unbiased test.

There are 2 things that still vex me.

First. Both core temps peaked around the same time in both tests. Sounds like accurate testing to me. But more importantly, take a look at this chart:


This shows a vertical mounted HK LT block (although optimized) his results look PRETTY SIMILAR to mine. His being just a hair below 69°C with the same stock clocks.

Here is the interesting thing...Look at my results:

My peak temp was 71°C.

Now I may not be perfect, but you saw the crappy setup I made intentianally for this test, and it came within 3°C of skinnee's overall test. Plus it was sitting within .5°C of his overall peak temp when I took the screen shot. Again, I am not perfect, but if I can throw together a test like that, and get the same results with skinnee for the HK block, I think I did ok.

My test data (the stuff you're quoting from skinneelabs.com) is at 4.2GHz, 1.52v on a different CPU than yours. You're at 2.66/2.8GHz (depending on Turbo) and 1.2v. It's totally and completely incomparable.

[Boogerlad]

was just about to say what vapor said.

[rehpyc]

Vapor beat me to the lawlable punch.

[tool_462]

nevermind, i will just edit this, as its obvious XS is no longer about trying new things, this is sad guys

People aren't challenging the cool new design, most are praising it. The test is just completely BS due to obvious drastic differences in ambient or case temperature.

[Sideroxylon]

Thank you Sideroxylon for bringing the overall valitiy of the test to light.

I think you've misunderstood me. I'm basically saying your tests aren't valid. Don't feel bad. I don't trust any manufacturers tests on their own products. I'm trying to get you to commit to sending your block to someone like Vapor or Skinnee for some real world testing.

I've said it already, if you're as confident in your blocks performance as it sounds like you are then you should be jumping at the chance to get these guys to test it.

[RBIEZE]

Good job Nateman !

Its nice to see how much effort you've put into designing blocks.

I think any one who is negatively criticizing Nates endeavors should take a step back for a minute.

Nate has spent countless hours trying to learn the ins and outs (pun) of liquid cooling.
I know from speaking with him that hes dedicated to becoming a master block-smith, and as time progresses we shall see some truly innovative designs from him.

I only wish that I still had the fire and motivation he has shown for this very serious and expensive hobby.

Keep up the Good work Nate and enjoy that new milling machine !!!

[jumper2high]

nevermind, i will just edit this, as its obvious XS is no longer about trying new things, this is sad guys

I think the members (including me) here are against his actions of adjusting the test results in his block's favor and trying to fool people into thinking it's better.

Looking at the fact that he gets worse temperatures at stock clock than Skinee does at 4.2GHz USING THE SAME BLOCK says it all, doesn't it?