Intel i7 975 first showing Mikeguava/FUGGER

[Movieman]

Unfortunately the pricing gap between the Nehalem Xeon CPU series and the Core i7 at same clock speeds will seriously hinder the value of the upcoming Gainstowns if leaked pricelists are to believed (i940=~$570 vs. X5570=~$1300).

On the positive side the Thurley platform should provide better power efficiency and compatibility with the Core i7 i.e. using the same HSF, RAM, SouthBridge. Although RAM will probably have to be buffered and registered but the cost is incremental and heat dissipation should be much less than the current FBDIMMs used by the DPs now.

Perhaps a Skulltrail Extreme

Xeon platforms have always been more than the comparable single socket versions along with the boards so thats nothing new.
Hell, my X5470's retail for app $1300.00 each and the SM X7DWA-N board was close to $500.00 when it came out so no increase in cost to get a system that doubles the computational power and thats just using the X5570's(2930mhz) not the available top end W5580's(3200mhz)
Memory is slated to be DDR3-1333 ECC but registered is not mandatory as far as I've heard.
yes, the idea of a SkullTrail Xtreme appeals to me also.
Someone want to hold a gun to Francois head to get it a done deal?
He's way too big to hit!

[Uberbob102000]

Well Xeons always carry a high price premium. I'm happy with my Core i7 for what I use it for and it was worth the upgrade over my Core 2 Quad Q9550 for me.

[Slay0r]

It just seems ot me that raw MHZ is still very important. I understand some of the limitations here, but we really need more.

I mean 5ghz with IMC, first shot...that's impressive.

But given what I have seen, it seems that D0 is merely a package adjustment to allow more current, rather than any change in the process that will ahve significant daily gains for most users. Like 65nm and 45nm revisions, 65nm had hotter cpus in thier final run, just like E0 is hotter, but goes further...so that heat isn't becuase of higher leakage per se...I think it's due to more current available to the cpu.

Package refinements can allow for more current to part of the chip, and not the "uncore", which might help with scaling, but I beleive these same things are what allow the i965 chips to have a higher "uncore" speed...


I'd really like to see these guys pull out all the stops, and get to the point where they are killing the cpus with the last bench...I want THAT extreme...WR and such doesn't matter to me, and Francios and Fugger say less cooling is needed....less cooling says to me, less leakage, but then clockspeeds should go up at the same time.

I see alot of people are taking my comments in a negative light...that's not my goal...but I do want to see bigger and better, and not nessecarily to see cost reflect that same thing...I want bigger adn better, for cheaper, and I erally think everyone here, given the economic climate, feels the same way.

You have to filter DrWho's replies. He's an Intel employee, so I'm assuming it's part of his job to make whatever the company produces out to be far better than what is here already, and than what their "rivals" have to offer, even when it's just not the case. But, as I said, you have to understand him, he indeed cares about his job and part of it is probably advertising the products in the (possibly a notch hypocritical) way he's doing. The fact English is not his main language probably does not help either.

The people that are taking your comments the wrong way are probably fanboys or people that choose to see what suits them better, or they plainly do not understand your point of view Keep your head up man. I agree with you on most of what you wrote in this thread.

Oh and yes: Fugger + Mikeguava, give the chip hell

[Zucker2k]

Snip...

I really don't see your point; if I had my way, I'd be buying a ZR1 for $25,000 (if I had the money). Bottom line is, these manufacturers set prices based on demand and other factors, including production cost. I still don't know why Intel and AMD lock multipliers on lower priced chips; as far as I'm concerned, that is crippling/neutering for price segmentation; it still boggles my mind how a cpu could cost more than a video card or mother board for that matter, seeing all the components they use for the production of those, but I guess this is the way the industry has always worked; could it also be the manufacturing process and materials/technology involved?

As for the mhz argument, I think it is simple; cpus are designed to perform tasks; they're not built to satisfy the overclocking or gaming hunger of anybody. In this respect, Ci7 is king; even in gaming. Read the recent AT xfirex review where a lower clocked i920 dominated higher clocked PHII and Q9550. That is progress; and generally speaking, gaming is it's weakness. So don't let your bad experience cloud the enhancements in performance which Ci7 brings to computing. At least give it some time till the process matures and further tweaks are applied. As it stands, these chips packs a hell of juice of already.

[Drwho?]

Guys,cadaveca, here is the dillema:

1) If I go and show the processor early (With the help of Fugger/Mike), you tell me it is not good, while we usually do demo early to make you guys happy and show you how open we are now compare to the past.
2) If I wait to show you that we launch the product, then , you will tell me that we are not open, and Intel is trying to hide something.

In both case, I end up being "bad".

I will have to find a middle ground with you guys, you will have to have a serious discussion in our OC community and decide one time for all if you prefert to see the technology early, or you prefert to see it demoed by experts like Fugger.
If you read the article on the inquirer, it kind of leave the taste that Phenom is in the race with Core i7, and I am getting some heat internally for this, and it is legitimate from my pears ... a 3.0Ghz Phenom II compares with a Q9400 if you read all the web site conclusion.

We are trying to keep Intel open, To do so, I need you guys to play fair, and not telling me that I am not fair, I am just quoting the conclusion of the Top 10 web sites. You have have different personal opinions, it does not mean that you have to drop a personal attack on my comments. I am very well know to be super fair, you can always quote me out of context, but if you know me, you know that I take competition as a sport, with the Olympic spirit in mind.
Now, if the 2nd in the race claim the be the best, it is legitimate and fair to remind him who has the gold medal, nothing arrogant in doing so.

If you want an Intel Open, you will have to work on helping us to be open, you can't be beating up on us what ever we do. I am working diligently to keep intel as open as I can.

Just my 2 cents ...

PS: This is my very personal opinion.

[NBF]

Drwho?, We love to see the new tech early! Please keep those previews comming! I think you couldn't have choosen better persons to introduce us to the upcoming products

The real point that have bothered some of the guys here is that Unreleased hardware is taking the top on the Hall of Fame.
I dont see it as AMD or Intel fault, as they need to validade scores in order to be trustworthed.

All the discussion here comes down to the matter of kepping those results out of the HoF and leveling the playing field for those on that race.

[Drwho?]

Drwho?, We love to see the new tech early! Please keep those previews comming! I think you couldn't have choosen better persons to introduce us to the upcoming products

The real point that have bothered some of the guys here is that Unreleased hardware is taking the top on the Hall of Fame.
I dont see it as AMD or Intel fault, as they need to validade scores in order to be trustworthed.

All the discussion here comes down to the matter of kepping those results out of the HoF and leveling the playing field for those on that race.

AMD and Intel used "engineering samples" at the OC party, you can verify this on ORB ... I totally agree with both CPU get removed from the ORB ... If it is what the overclocking community wants.
I started the debate few months back, saying that Processor manufacturer demos are not to be trusted in the World record race ... Back then, I was told that I should 'shut the F up' by the AMD fans because I could not get to 6.3Ghz ... (I quoted )
Demoing OC using processor pick up by me or the AMD perf guys is not representative, only "commercially bought" CPU will show the real Overclocking performance of a processor, I am 100% behind this rule!
If you want to make it yours, i ll be very very very happy, because I know that Intel manufactoring is awesome, and I am fully confident there.


You are the community, you decide.

[Zucker2k]

Drwho?, We love to see the new tech early! Please keep those previews comming! I think you couldn't have choosen better persons to introduce us to the upcoming products

The real point that have bothered some of the guys here is that Unreleased hardware is taking the top on the Hall of Fame.
I dont see it as AMD or Intel fault, as they need to validade scores in order to be trustworthed.

All the discussion here comes down to the matter of kepping those results out of the HoF and leveling the playing field for those on that race.

Okay, when Nissan chose their test driver to set the then world production car record at the nurburgring, was it a valid world record? You betcha! Why did they choose him? Because he was the best driver in their stable. Is the record for Nissan? You betcha. Is the driver's name attached to the record? You betcha! Could anyone in the world buy the GTR and attempt to break the world record during this time? No. From the foregoing, it seems to me that the world record - simply means a new height, a new achievement. Here's the reason why this is becoming an issue:

Before overclocking grew into what it is now; the handful of enthusiasts had to depend on retail parts, just like everyone else. Then the overclockers and manufacturers started seeking each other out for free-ware and publicity respectively. They found each other. That is the system we have now, and it's here to stay. To think of it, didn't Fugger break 3 world records last year with a QX9770 and his 3-stager? What were the complaints then? None! Why, because these were new thresholds for any processor, and even though no one had access at that time, nobody complained either way. The only difference is that last year's debut of the QX9770 was an Intel-staged demo complete with papparrazzi, spotlights, and stage effects. Whereas this year, an Intel employee helps to demo an unreleased processor behind the scenes. So where is the problem? We all need to relax. I just wish I could afford one when they finally drop.

[Charles Wirth]

Cadaveca, you are not the masses sorry to say. Stop trying to speak as everyone else when its just you.

There you go again, shell of its former self (degrading comment just thrown in there for what reason). We are 100x stronger and doing the same thing we done before with phase and liquid cooling. You were just unaware of what was going on behind the scenes, you seem upset that you are not handed a WR processor every release or something so no one else should be. That is the attitude we all see.

Give you numbers? The chip is unrleased and I gave you what I was allowed.

Think about it, you have done nothing but try to drag this thread down in every post when you should just accept the fact it was a single bench demo of a new core coming. The part exists, if you need to go bury your head in the sand please do so.

[cadaveca]

I'll take a permaban then, pls. I'm not the only one complaining...if you can't see that, then I'm wasting my time as you say, I cannot be sorry for speaking my mind.

I've helped more people on here, linked to here, than anyone else(except MOvieman...he's in a class all himself). And this is the response? You can't take some criticism?

THis is the attitude I'm talking about.

I have no board..what would I do with an i7 proc? Like really? I have no shortage of cash, thanks...liek realted on another forum, I spend $35 bucks just on soap. I don't need anything for free.

note you said seem, so you don't even know what my story is. why did you add me to the 3d team? I didn't qualify in the contest, yet you added me?

What were YOU trying to accomplish in doing so?

[Oliver]

cmon guys, jalousi is a bad thing u know ...

this is called overclocking, if we want to stick to the same things all the time, why would we overclock?, this is kalled to , keep pushing it and thats what it is about.

in my world, this is exciting and shows us what we want, development and step ups ...

beg up

[[XC] gomeler]

What the hell happened to this thread? Top tier overclocking is the result of many years of building up experience, contacts, and a reputation. It's a closed-door club that is hard to break into and it's a fact of life. Nothing is ever free and chances are you are always being taken advantage of when given something "for free". This expo is simply a case of Intel dumping PR dollars and time to counter what they sense is a potential public image threat with the Phenom II overclocking. Whining about it does nothing, appreciate that we've become a niche big enough to warrant a PR person from Intel getting involved and enjoy the future prospects the D0 stepping offers us.

[Charles Wirth]

Put it this way, I know you have done a lot for this site and I appriciate everything, I really do. I expect to keep you as a great member as you always have been but you seem real sour lately, even before this launch you were depressed and showing signs of stress.

All I have been doing is /facepalm every time I read your posts. Am I not allowed to speak my mind?

This is XS and why people come here, new ES parts or WR runs it makes the site strong. Removing that aspect this site might as well be shut down.

[CmB]

not sure what all the fuss is about... all this is just a preview of technology to come

i'm more interested in whether intel's next stepping would have a more consistent memory controller between cpus ?

I would like to know this as well.

I agree and I'm looking forward to what's to come. I love the return of HT for crunching and it's cool you can turn it off if you don't need it / want it.

Those chips don't need crazy cooling, that is the beauty of this 45nm high K process. This is 2Ghz over its frequency, at only -50C... much easier for the mass to play with.

Are we going to get to 4 GHz on air at lower load temps or is the gain only below subambient, for me -50C IS crazy cooling lol, I'm not in this class, maybe someday but not today...not to be a jerk but the elites are on subambient not the masses, I mean its not like office workstations are going to be on phase or even H2O...but I understand what Francois means so its all good. All in all good show and I am glad you made this thread FUGGER... can you unleash this BEAST?

Most of the people OC Core i7 920 or QX9650, they are affordable, you don't have to be the best in the world to have fun.

Francois

QFT

[kemo]

Put it this way, I know you have done a lot for this site and I appriciate everything, I really do. I expect to keep you as a great member as you always have been but you seem real sour lately, even before this launch you were depressed and showing signs of stress.

All I have been doing is /facepalm every time I read your posts. Am I not allowed to speak my mind?

This is XS and why people come here, new ES parts or WR runs it makes the site strong. Removing that aspect this site might as well be shut down.

If you would break 47K with your Golden 965Xe , that will silence everyone ,, i think it is the right time to unleash your 5GHZ on air chip

[cadaveca]

Put it this way, I know you have done a lot for this site and I appriciate everything, I really do. I expect to keep you as a great member as you always have been but you seem real sour lately, even before this launch you were depressed and showing signs of stress.

All I have been doing is /facepalm every time I read your posts. Am I not allowed to speak my mind?

This is XS and why people come here, new ES parts or WR runs it makes the site strong. Removing that aspect this site might as well be shut down.

Well, unlike alot of others, I can moderate myself.

I know that's what XS is about, but even Gom agrees with me that this part of XS is a closed door, so rather than see people fighting about what's valid or not, I'd like to just see the numbers for what they are, and to see them continually increase. I'd rather see you do it unfettered, rather than worrying about this stupid garbage about "valid results" and other crap...over the years you've proven your integrity, so that's not in question. I'm not asking for the previews to stop...I want the bickering about validity of it being a WR to stop. Read my first posts in the thread...I say just the same..that this is a preview, and no claim for a WR.

You've claimed it isn't closed, but even those within say the same. Take a look a few posts up. That's what pissed me off here.


And If my current voice didn't coincide with the masses you would have just banned me as I asked, but it seems that you fear what that might do to the site. I'm sorry to put you in this situation, but I don't see any other options.

I'll take that permaban now, pls. I asked to be removed from the 3DTeam, a simple request...I didn't work for it like the others when you held the competition...you wouldn't do that...I had to get movieman to remove that status from my tag...can you do this?

[Charles Wirth]

No permaban, I will not allow you to martyr yourself.

The door is not closed for those who can figure out the right combination, part of that also comes timing of product releases.

If the part exists and it takes the top spot why bash that person for being more fortunate?

Stop saying masses, trying to fluff yourself is not working. Trying to martyr yourself in the same sentance is obvious on this too. If you need to leave XS, do it on your own.

[Zucker2k]

I'll take a permaban then, pls. I'm not the only one complaining...if you can't see that, then I'm wasting my time as you say, I cannot be sorry for speaking my mind.

I've helped more people on here, linked to here, than anyone else(except MOvieman...he's in a class all himself). And this is the response? You can't take some criticism?

THis is the attitude I'm talking about.

I have no board..what would I do with an i7 proc? Like really? I have no shortage of cash, thanks...liek realted on another forum, I spend $35 bucks just on soap. I don't need anything for free.

note you said seem, so you don't even know what my story is. why did you add me to the 3d team? I didn't qualify in the contest, yet you added me?

What were YOU trying to accomplish in doing so?

Criticism for criticisms sake is a waste of everyone's time. If you actually had a point in the beginning, then this debate would be worthwhile, but that is not the case at all.

Here's another example; motherboards and graphics cards etc, get sent to a few people for testing before they're released to retail. These same boards have provided these few testers with a strong platform to break existing records during the testing stage. If you really want to go by retail dates you'll find a number of records have been set with beta hardware.

[cadaveca]

No permaban, I will not allow you to martyr yourself.

The door is not closed for those who can figure out the right combination, part of that also comes timing of product releases.

If the part exists and it takes the top spot why bash that person for being more fortunate?

Stop saying masses, trying to fluff yourself is not working. Trying to martyr yourself in the same sentance is obvious on this too. If you need to leave XS, do it on your own.

where did I bash you for being more fortunate? PLs reread the thread, fugger. I seem to recall standing up to defend that exclusivity...

[Charles Wirth]

Kemo, this is the 5ghz air chip

[[XC] gomeler]

XS is simply a forum that is known for hosting posts of world record breaking runs and pre-release showcases. It's like a bar that's known as a biker bar, the bar itself isn't that different from any other bar but it's the clients and the owner/operator that set the tone. The part of benching that is more or less closed door isn't exclusive to XS, it just happens to represent itself mainly on XS. Don't confuse the service that Fugger kindly provides with the industry backing and friendships people form to acquire such parts. Half of top tier benchmarking is forming relationships, you can be a genius at whipping up BIOS and OS tweaks, figuring out voltage mods, and building insane cooling solutions, but if you can't talk to people then you are a broken package.

As a friend, I implore that you stop asking for this permaban. It is only ruining this thread, souring the great results Fugger was able to present to us, and making people get all antsy. The term "if you can't beat them, join them" comes to mind. Oh, and always remember that we never represent the masses, even if our niche begins to grow exponentially, we'll still only be a small niche compared to the millions upon millions of consumers that buy a (insert random OEM) and are satisfied. Then again, we do also tend to influence the purchases of many people around us, something to think about.

[Charles Wirth]

Bash was a poor choice a of words, your sour attitude degrading this this thread to no end would be more appropriate.

In no way does any of this diminish, discourage or detour my pushing forward. I appriciate all the feedback and I expect to pull more shenanigans in the future.

[Leeghoofd]

i'm more interested in whether intel's next stepping would have a more consistent memory controller between cpus ?

Same question here, would be nice if DO is what EO was for wolfdale and co...

[ryba]

Ok Fugger and Drwho? I can't blame you for anything. But, why when I'm asking Intel: When you will have 975 extreme and showing them this thread I have anwser: This CPU not exist and will not be in sellery ever!

This information I have from Polish part of Intel and they have it from much higher part of company.

And sorry, if someone from Intel telling and showing me something about 975 Extreme and second person from that company telling me that CPU will not exist, what can I think about Intel?

[Charles Wirth]

I removed Cadaveca from this section.