Real Temp - New temp program for Intel Core processors

Unclewebb, had some more time to play with RC9 this am, Real temp is working perfect:up:. It reads correctly whether 1,2,3 or 4 cores enabled and whether HT is on or off. Also everytime you reboot, even though the core order can be different, except core 0 always seems to be first, Realtemp still seems to report them in the correct order. Everest and speedfan do not.

3 pics, all with 3 cores enabled, HT off, just for example.
Everest gets confused with HT off and 3 cores enabled, etc, as it apparently starts reading just 1 core 3x or maybe 2, temps track exactly same no matter what, while RT still reads the 3 different cores correctly, and you can tell that although APIC (another unclewebbs program) is showing pic 2 has different order than pic 1 and 3, that Realtemp keeps cores in correct order all 3 pics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by shazza

Is the fact that threads are being assigned to different cores in a random manner also partially responsible for some of the temp differences between cores?

---

My opinion is that most of the differences in reported temperature between cores is slight differences in TJMax from one core to the next. The 100C TJ spec is a TJ Target and Intel has said that they don't always hit that target exactly when setting TJMax. It can and does vary by a few degrees from one CPU to the next as well as one core to the next. The TJMax spread for the 45nm Core 2 series is much greater than all of the other chips, combined!

There is also a slight amount of slope error in all of these sensors where a core can change temperature at a slightly different rate than what the sensor indicates. Intel says this can amount to +/- 10%.

A test I used to do with a Q6600 was to run 1 thread of Prime95 Small FFTs and then move it around from one core to the next using the Task Manager - Set Affinity... function. By doing that, it was easier to see and learn about the physical order of the cores. I also learned that Task Manager is bugged too and if your APIC ID is random, then when you ask Task Manager to run a task on a specific core, you'll likely end up with it being run somewhere else.

With the introduction of the 45nm Core 2 series, everything got closer together so it was hard to see the cores based on temperature changes. For Core i7 you might be able to run 2 threads on the same core and move the pair of them around with Set Affinity...

I followed the directions for SLI so I'm glad to see that it works. It should also handle 3 or 4 way SLI and report the highest GPU temperature. I figure if you're going to use RT to shutdown your computer based on GPU temperature, then that has to be based on the hottest GPU.

rge: Your pictures speak volumes. I know that your core0 always reports as your hottest core so it sure looks like Everest is copying that one value and repeating it 3 times. The Intel APIC documentation gives new meaning to the word confusing so it's easy to understand the misunderstandings about core order.

Anyone interested can download my APIC ID tool that I wrote for rge.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...507/APICID.zip

When you exit RealTemp, it writes the APIC ID to the INI file so you can also have a look in there for APIC information. The core order remains constant until the next re-boot.

Speedstep display fixed in RC9, thanks unclewebb, you sure are efficient.

:up:

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/2458/fixedro3.th.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wotcher

Speedstep display fixed in RC9, thanks unclewebb, you sure are efficient.

---

You're welcome.

During SpeedStep transitions, RealTemp might report slightly differently than CPU-Z, etc. Anyone that has EIST enabled but can't get RealTemp to show (6.0 / Core 2) or (12.0 / Core i7) at idle, needs to check some of their Windows settings in the Power Options.

With the correct settings, both programs should report the same at idle and full load but there might be times when RealTemp will show you an average multiplier which more accurately reflects the truth. In some situations, the multiplier can be going up and down rapidly so some software will just ignore the changes and report a steady value.

Thanks Unclewebb - latest version working great with i7-nice to have all cores showing again.

Unclewebb, next time your tinkering in Realtemp, one more update:D,
finally got chance to test for absolute max with 4C outside temps and 1.68vcore...had posted in OCing thread
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=481012

rge: I can tell from your GPU temp that you were getting serious about running an XS Bench number that you can be proud of!

I think it's time to make 2.90 Final. Maybe one more small tweak.
I'll definitely include your new numbers to give people something to shoot for. :up:

DGill: The information rge sent me about APIC ID helped me to finally understand Core i7 and how threads are assigned to each core.
You could say, the light finally went on when I saw his numbers. :idea:

The Intel documentation makes something that is incredibly easy, almost impossible to understand.

i think i have a problem :p with the RC9 2.90 version
it cant remember the setings so when i close real temp i have to set them again
like i want to see all 4 cores temp in the tray and to start it minimizes
is something that i do wrong :p ? with older version it could remember the settings

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vatos_locos

i think i have a problem :p with the RC9 2.90 version it cant remember the setings so when i close real temp i have to set them again

---

Does anyone else have this problem because it works for me?

The only thing I can think of is that the RealTemp folder is located in a directory that you don't have the privilege of writing to. If this happens it wouldn't let you save your settings in the INI file. You can also right click on the RealTemp.ini file and do a Properties on it which might show you what's going on.

If you have that file open in a separate program while RealTemp is running then that might also block you from saving your settings. I'll try a few different things to see if I can find a problem in something I did.

Edit: Make sure you unzip the file you download. RealTemp will start from a zipped file but it might have a problem saving the settings back into a zipped folder.

It's fine for me.
It remember when I was at bathroom, when I opened my computer, when I update RealTemp, it's scary sometimes. :ROTF:

i have it on C:\real temp ( C is the windows drive )
i'll try to move it to an other drive to see if the same thing happens

EDIT
i just move it to the C:\Program Files x86\Real Temp
and it is working now

so i guess it a problem with my pc not with the program :p: sorry

Thanks for testing that out Vatos_locos. I always get worried when I hear about a bug! :)

Windows Vista and XP can get kind of picky when you try to write to directories that you don't have the appropriate privilege to write to.

On a different note. Anyone wanting to test out the public beta version of Windows 7 should head here and get in line before Microsoft closes the door:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/e.../dd353205.aspx

A 2.44GB download might tie up your internet connection for a while though.

no problem m8 :)
i was on Vista tho and i had the privilege to wright on the folder
i don't know why it did this but it still dose it on the same folder i guess something is wrong with my vista and not with real temp :p

I like Vista except for one nasty habit it has. I have XP and Vista in a dual boot config on separate hard drives and when I'm in either OS, I can access the files on the other hard drive.
Everything works great for a few months and then Vista decides that there is a problem with this strange XP hard drive so it goes over and changes the file permissions and nukes everything.
After this "fix", Windows XP won't boot up anymore or will take forever to boot up and the file permissions will be screwed up.

I just dragged a RealTemp folder from my desktop to the C: directory and RealTemp started fine. Just check the file permissions on the RealTemp.ini file when you have the issue that the settings aren't being saved. If you don't have permission to write to that file for whatever reason, RealTemp won't be able to save your settings.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by unclewebb

On a different note. Anyone wanting to test out the public beta version of Windows 7 should head here and get in line before Microsoft closes the door:
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/e.../dd353205.aspx

---

Triple booting Vista, XP and Win 7 on one HDD now. I had to do some serious re-arrangement to get my games off a primary partition and onto a logical one (that didn't already exist) so that I could install a 3rd OS.

Messy!
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w...partitions.png

This may already have been posted (too tired to re-read), but noticed today that the GPU temp reading definitely captures the highest card:

http://shazza53.smugmug.com/photos/4...0_JA8vb-XL.jpg

Realtemp works great in windows 7 64 bit. My XS bench score at 4.2ghz was same as in XP. Have EIST and C1E enabled, and power saving enabled in windows 7.

Thanks shazza. In the first screen shot you posted yesterday, GPU 1 was the hottest and RealTemp reported that temperature. In your second screen shot, GPU 2 is the hottest and RealTemp is reporting that one.

That means :up: for RealTemp. It's working as intended.

rge: It's nice to know that when Windows 7 is released, I'll be able to take a break. :D

I was curious about one thing. If you leave your Minimum Processor State at 100%, does RealTemp report your multi floating somewhere around ~18.0? Usually this has to be dropped to about 50% to get Vista to keep your CPU down at the default idle multi of 12.0 when C1E and EIST are both enabled.

Edit: The XS Bench is directly proportional to MHz so if you bump your multi from 21.0 to 23.0 like when you ran your record XS Bench score, your Windows 7 time should drop from your current 8.681 seconds to (8.681 X 21.0 / 23.0) which equals 7.926 seconds. Are your Super PI mod times about the same with Vista 7 compared to XP? When I switched XP to Vista my 3D Mark 2001 score dropped like a rock but that was likely just a driver issue.

I added a couple of very minor features tonight. The ability to gather up the system tray icons if they've become separated during boot up and the ability of RealTemp to notice when you swap CPUs so it will automatically use the default TJMax for your new CPU. The XS types seem to have a habit of swapping CPUs and pretty much everything else on a regular basis. :rofl:

I added an INI option a while ago so RealTemp should be able to read cores 4, 5, 6 and 7 on Dual CPU setups.

Skull=2

If anyone has a Skull Trail setup then try running two instances of RealTemp from two different directories with the first one set up with the Skull=1 INI option and the other one with Skull=2 in the INI file. If this works post a screen shot so I can get motivated to create an 8 core specific version of RealTemp. I have to get ready for when Intel releases 8 core / 16 thread Core i7 chips that might be compatible with the present Core i7 motherboards.

Quote:

---

Thanks shazza. In the first screen shot you posted yesterday, GPU 1 was the hottest and RealTemp reported that temperature. In your second screen shot, GPU 2 is the hottest and RealTemp is reporting that one.

That means for RealTemp. It's working as intended.

---

Yep ... today was the first time I saw GPU2 as the hotter one, and was happy to see Real Temp was right on the money.

4.2ghz windows 7 64bit, build 7000, currently 35 processes running (shutdown 6 useless peer to peer networking services and improved spi/XS secs from 9.98 to 9.796)
RT XS bench 8.675 secs
Superpi 9.796

4.2ghz windows XP sp3, 31 processes running
Realtemp XS bench 1688, 8.669 seconds
spi 9.735

EDit:
At default settings with EIST enabled +/- C1E, the multi initially bounces on ~19 (set at 21) for couple mins after reboot then usually goes to 12 and stays there (when i assume some background stuff quit running, though cpu is load 0 right after boot up). I manually changed power settings to cpu min 60% (from 5%) and the multi then sat at a steady 14 instead of steady 12. If put min processor power at 100%, it sits around 19 multi. With EIST disabled and C1E enabled, multi sat around 19-20.

Reboot time is 12 seconds faster with windows 7 though. Pretty good for a beta build.

Tested shutdown by cpu and gpu alarm exe on realtemp for windows 7, both worked perfect. So far have not found any realtemp bugs in windows 7.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rge

Tested shutdown by cpu and gpu alarm exe on realtemp for windows 7, both worked perfect. So far have not found any realtemp bugs in windows 7.

---

Some things need repeating. :D

Now that RealTemp has the threads and cores sorted out, I plan to re-work my i7 Load Tester tool this week with a few more features to keep track of average load over a period of time. I noticed last night on my Q6600 that when running 3 threads of Prime, the OS or CPU moves the tasks around from core to core to balance the load but it seems like too much load is ending up on core0 and not enough on core3. That might help explain why core0 tends to be the hottest core. It will be interesting to see if Windows 7 is any different in spreading the tasks around compared to Vista. It's likely the CPU itself that controls this but we need an updated tool to do some testing!

hi folks, just a quick Q :D what's the tjmax of the new i7 (bloomfield)?

100c degrees.
It is written in Realtemp 2.90.

Intel finally got wise and started writing TJMax or TJ Target info into each Core i7 processor so RealTemp or any program can read this info without having to guess anymore.

The only issue now is whether TJMax is slightly higher than the TJ Target info that is stored in these processors. Technically speaking, it's still possible that TJMax could be a couple of degrees higher because Intel says that TJMax is not a fixed value.

unclewebb, what makes the little gpu report window pop up? I did it by accident and now I can't repeat it :D