That is a good assumption loonym. ;)
Q6600 G0 continues to be TjMax = 95C
The Default button in RealTemp should reset your TjMax to its default setting.
Printable View
Hi unclewebb!!! i need your help. i have Intel QX9650 cpu with watercooling system and Asus P5E3 Premium mobo. i made all the tests for calibration and i manage to have these calibration settings:
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4920/43829284sa1.jpg
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4...3cfeefd210.jpg
in this photo core 0 and core 1 is at 35 with ambient temps 31. this is also the report temp from Asus pcprobe program and Everest. the tjMax is 95 that all 45nm cpu's have. but the core 2 and core 3 is 5 degrees more even with the calibration. so i played a litlle with the set tjMax setting and here what i made:
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7862/62251112tg1.jpg
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7...f133d6f6c7.jpg
i set tjMax to 85 and now all the cores with calibration have the same temps.
is it right to do this? i mean to set the tjMax to 85 and make all cores the same temp?
thank you my friend and congratulations for this great program!!!
regardz
djstx2003
I'm not 100% sure but i think you should leave the TJmax at 95, and make adjustments through your idle values only.
I'll admit that your calibration looks nice but changing TjMax is definitely not the right thing to do.
It is likely that you have a couple of core sensors that are stuck like many other 45nm Quad core owners have. Two or three stuck sensors on a 45nm Quad seems to be pretty typical. You can't use calibration factor corrections or TjMax adjustments to fix a stuck sensor. There's nothing you can do with it to get it to report accurate idle temperatures so step 1 is trying to determine if any of your sensors are stuck.
I'm assuming that you read the documentation and followed the calibration procedure and lowered your core voltage to about 1.10 volts and dropped your frequency to about 2000 MHz for your calibration test. Post a CPU-Z screen shot of that and what RealTemp shows with a 0.0 calibration.
Go back a page to this post and have a look at what I told Xello to do and the information he posted afterward so I could understand his CPU and his sensors better.
ok here a photo with fsb 266 and cpu volt 1.10:
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/4373/38120961sr4.jpg
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/4...f6c8620ac1.jpg
also i test the sensors and all is working. i know what is a stuck sensor because this is my second cpu QX9650. the previous i rma it and this is the new.:
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/581/47632242zc8.jpg
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/581...6cdee3c5e7.jpg
and finally here a photo from cpu-z:
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/1038/74371404qd5.jpg
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/103...69188952b5.jpg
from what i see the core 0 and core 1 have the same temps and the same for the other 2 cores but with 5 more. if i overclock the test sensors readings go higher but i think this is normal.
so now what settings can i have to real temp?
thank you for your fast answers my friend!!!
and here is another photo with calibration at tjMax 95 and fsb 266 and cpu volt 1.10:
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/9459/57034402cu9.jpg
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/9...d3f46eed34.jpg
Do you know what your water temp is at idle and how accurate that measurement is? When calibrating with water we need to compare your idle temp to that. With your Quad it's pretty easy to see the two separate Dual Cores inside of it. At idle you should try and use calibration values so they all report the same temp. If your sensors were really screwed up then this might not be possible but I think yours are OK.
Do some more idle testing and confirm 39 39 43 43 and tell me what your water temp is.
After that try running Prime95 small FFTs at default MHz and core voltage or if you usually overclock then run your overclocked settings. I just want to see with no calibration if the reported temps get closer together or not. Most of the 65nm Quads that I've seen typically have core0/core1 that run a few degrees hotter than core2/core3 during a Prime test but yours looks sort of the opposite. Give me some more numbers and I should be able to come up with a suggestion or two. If your room temp is 31C then I think you might be trying to calibrate too low. Your real core temperature might be close to 40C.
The temp number from PcProbe and Everest is probably pretty close but it is not a calibrated value that you can fully depend on to be 100% accurate. My CPU sensor that SpeedFan reports can be off by 10C at times.
For calibration values maybe something like:
0.0 0.0 -2.0 -2.0
might be pretty close. With some more testing numbers I'll see if this makes sense. Post some info from the RealTemp log file like Xello did and make me a happy guy. :) The code /code html tags work great for this.
Hi unclewebb!!! heres what i did. with a digital thermometer i took the water temp and it was at 34. i also put the thermometer up to the waterblock on cpu. there the temp was 35-36. ooh!!! today the ambient temp is 32. more warmer day than yesterday.
and finally i made all the steps you told to another guy Xello and heres the log file:
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i think all the cores warms and cooldowns the same but i see this difference about the temp of cores. cores 0-1 goes together(example 42) and the cores2-3 goes together but a litlle bit higher about 4-5 degrees more than previous cores 0-1(example 46).
the test is made with no calibration(all defaults, log interval 1) and cpu 450x7(3150Ghz)
so what can i do now? with tjmax 95 the temps is higher about 5-6 degrees more than pcprobe and everest reports. core temp i don't use it because it gives a lot of bad reports of temps in 45nm cpu's.
what is the best settings unclewebb?
its wrong to set the tjmax to 85 and calibrate the cores temps the same like i did previous in my posts?
thank you my friend!!! be well!!!
djstx2003: I had a feeling your water temp was a little warmer than you thought it was! :)
It's definitely wrong to adjust TjMax. I've continued to work with Xello and he's also seeing a 4C difference at full load between the two sets of cores within his Quad. That's very normal and during testing seems to continue right up to TjMax and beyond.
http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/265/prime80cwf8.png
I was getting a consistent 5C difference but the CPU fan was likely on a very low setting to get things this warm or maybe even off some of the time. The point is that difference is normal at full load. At idle this delta should decrease to virtually zero. Surprisingly, I took the heatsink off once and let it get up to a similar temperature but the difference between sets of cores decreased to next to nothing which sort of proved the sensors are OK. I think it has to do with how the IHS contacts the cores but I haven't been motivated enough yet to gut a good processor in the name of science.
The odd part about your CPU is that the difference is fairly uniform from idle to full load. That doesn't usually happen.
My official test as sort of outlined in the documentation suggests using 333x6.0 ~ 2000 MHz for 45nm and about 1.10 volts. Similar voltage is more critical than MHz. Looking at your reported idle temps and your water temp, I wouldn't bother using a calibration factor on core0 or core1. They are both reporting about 41C to 42C at idle which considering your water temperature, is probably a very accurate core temperature. A water cooled Quad will usually idle about 5C above your water temp during my official test. There might be a slight variation depending on the quality of your set up and 101 other factors but this is a good baseline to shoot for.
I'd just use negative calibration factors on core2/core3 (approx. -2.0) to bring their temps at idle down so they equal core0/core1. I think this will provide you with the most accurate approximation of your core temperatures from idle to TjMax. Leave TjMax set to 95C for all of them.
That's my best guess. Your sensors are far better than most Quads. Maybe after an RMA they reach into a bag of processors with good sensors and give you one of them to keep you happy. :)
Making any comparisons to what Everest or PcProbe or SpeedFan report for the CPU temperature isn't usually a good idea because you don't know how accurate that sensor they are reading is. The Intel DTS sensors are excellent as long as you know where they are accurate and where they are not.
thanks my friend, i'll do that. i'll put -2.0 to cores 2-3 and leave tjmax at 95. i see about 1-2 degrees more than cores 0-1 but i think its normal because they have different distance to tjmax.
thank you my friend!!! keep the good work!!! be well!!!
regardz
djstx2003
Use the same TjMax for all cores, balance the idle temps by adjusting core2/core3 and that's about as good as it gets without having to invest in a fancy IR thermometer. Now go do some overclocking and show us the only numbers that are really important, BIG MHz. :D
thx for this excellent tool. Almost perfect, but if I can suggest an improvement, I would like to have an alarm function that can trigger other application, for example an shutdown script, instead of just start an alarm. That would be more useful.
once again god bless unclewebb for incredible work!!!
Great program, very accurate!! Thanks.
There's always room for improvement! I'll look into including something like that for the next release.
Thanks everyone for the positive feedback.
Initial testing looks good. 59 hours and still going strong. :up:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9959/rt27059qd5.png
I just got this program and my Q9450. My temps are all over the place. I am liquid cooled but i dont see what difference that would make.
My temperatures are: 37 43 45 45 and when testing the sensors temperature movement is 7,9,3,3 in the same order.
Should I RMA my CPU?
Nope, everyone seems to have whacky temperature readings and as Web has said it comes down to the fact that the sensors on the cpu are far from perfect. It's normal to have readings far apart like that, Justintoxicated, so don't worry.
You can change certain values in the program to sync the cores more but there's a possibility that 1 or more temp sensors are 'stuck', meaning they won't show a value below a certain amount. My core 1 and 2 sensors are like this, they won't go below 34 and 36 respectively. It doesn't mean there's a fault with the CPU though.
If you glance over the last page or 2 you will see some data we provided Uncle with and he was able to advise us on how to set our calibration values, you might want to do the same :up:
Your odd ball temps look pretty normal for a 45nm Quad. Intel neither designs nor calibrates these sensors to accurately report low temperatures. They are calibrated to be extremely accurate at 95C and any usability beyond that is a bonus.
If you read the documentation and try doing the suggested calibration, you might find that with RealTemp they are at least usable even if they are not perfect.
There's not much use doing an RMA because there is no guarantee that your replacement will be any better than what you've got now. Do some research and let me know if you have any questions.
It's been mighty quiet in this thread for the last week.
Here's what I've been working on. :)
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/2...1httestpu7.png
I did a quick update to the GUI so the buttons, etc. are XP style. The toggle button in the top right corner is a little wider so it should be easier to click on.
The PROCHOT# section seemed to confuse some so I cleaned it up as well. If your processor is running fine it will display OK. If it is presently throttling it will say HOT and if there was a thermal throttling episode since you started up then it will report that as LOG. I might have to pull the plug on the CPU fan tomorrow to make sure this is working properly! That new IntelBurnTest should get RealTemp lighting up like a Christmas tree.
Edit: IntelBurnTest was causing too many fluctuations in core temperatures so I used Prime small FFTs instead. In the updated pic, core0 is thermal throttling, core1 has thermal throttled but is not currently throttling as shown by the LOG entry and core2 and core3 are still OK and have not done any throttling.
The logging file has been updated to include the date and if you hover the mouse above the Min or Max area it will pop up a date in case you run your computer for days / weeks and can't remember when that happened. Also added a Reset option to the System Tray menu for easier / quicker access.
I'm thinking about allowing users to customize the background and text colors like this which might blend in better with the generally dark Vista themes:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/9783/rtdarkzj6.png
Hopefully a beta of all this good stuff will be ready in a few days for some testing. Everyone must be happy because I haven't heard any complaints lately! :D
looks good :) Can't wait for the beta.
unclewebb:
I just went E8500 -> E8600
Do you know if Tj Max has changed with the new E0 stepping??
Do you know what Tj Max should be for the E8600???
nuclearjock: I believe that TjMax has not changed and it is still 95C for the E8600. I have not had my hands on one and pointed the IR thermometer at it but I'm pretty confident that TjMax hasn't changed.
X-bit Labs compared an E8600 (ES) engineering sample to an E8500 - C0 and with both processors overclocked to 4275 MHz, the E0 reported temperature was 2C higher based on a TjMax=105C for both of them. They came to the conclusion that this proves that the new stepping must have a different TjMax but I think their understanding of heat output from Core processors as well as the behavior of these sensors is lacking. They also tried to make some direct comparisons of uncorrected idle temperatures which anyone familiar with RealTemp and these sensors knows is a rather meaningless comparison.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu...o-e8600_4.html
After a 10 minute test, a 2C difference proves nothing. A slight change in thermal paste application or the amount of time that it's had to set up could cause that. Even a tiny change in the squareness of the IHS could change temps by a degree or two very easily.
There is also no documentation from Intel that states what the repeatability of these sensors are. A 50C chip might give off a reading of 49C one day and 51C the next day even though the CPU is at the exact same temperature.
After taking every thing into account, my interpretation of the X-bit Labs report is that nothing has changed concerning TjMax. The difference in temps is not statistically significant enough to support their conclusion. A typical error of +/- 1C for both processors would also show a difference of 2C.
Being skinnable (or customizing colors) would be cool. Maybe allow a background image to be displayed with a separate option for normal gui background and mini background.
Also, IntelBurn (linpack frontend), is not good for a constant heat source. It's good for heating the proc up, and getting it to a maximum high, but prime still wins for a constant heat source. Linpack has to cycle too much data through ram to have constant calcs. It's similar to how blend is cooler than Small FTT.