Official MSI P7N Diamond (780i) Discussion/Review/Overclock/Guide/BIOS Thread
Hey everyone,
NEW INFO! Quick Update #4 - 5/7/08 - MSI has released a new BIOS (1.1B8) with common voltage settings! vCore is still set the same way (as an amount added to VID,) but this has never really been an issue since figuring out VID has never been a problem. The good news is that the random integers used to set FSB Term, GTL Ref, etc. are gone. In their place are common and meaningful direct voltage settings (i.e. 1.2v.) This should make OCing far easier, as the BIOS settings can now be navigated meaningfully.
Obviously I'll need to re do the suggested settings section with the new voltages. I hope to get my hands dirty with the new BIOS this weekend and will update then. If you've been playing around with 1.1B8, please share your results.
Thanks!
Quick Update #3 - 3/28/08 - Apparently some people are experiencing a performance loss when running a two-card SLI setup with one card in the white PCI-E x16 1.1 slot. One user has reported a drastic change in performance when moving to the two PCI-E 2.0 blue slots, while several others report a gain of 500-700 3DMark points and 1-3fps in most games. I have updated the section about this accordingly.
Update #2 - 3/23/08 - Since the last update, people have found successful OC settings with the E8400 and E8500. However, while the latest beta BIOS (1.1B4) seems to provide the best shot of success, it does appear to be finicky with 45nm chips. MSI is indeed working on updates, and I have no doubt that the majority of issues will be solved in short time as the product matures. In the mean time, I have posted suggested OC settings for the E8400, based on results obtained from members on this thread. Please try with 1.1B4 and P05 and let us know if you've found success. It may be that it takes another update or two before everyone is covered.
Note that we've had one user (BKA) try out a non-extreme Yorkfield with this board (a Q9300,) and while it does work at stock, OC attempts seem to be hampered at the moment by a lack of BIOS support. (In particular, BKA has reported that half-multipliers are missing.) If you are looking to pair this board with a Q9300, Q9450, or Q9550, I would suggest holding off unless you are okay with running at stock for a while. Note that MSI lists these chips as under testing (rather than fully supported at the moment,) and from what we've gathered we can expect full support in an upcoming BIOS shortly.
Lastly, for those new to overclocking in general, I've posted a set of general points to consider. These are not suggested settings, but more-so cover the basics of OCing a Core 2 chip. It's not a full fledged guide, but it should help those new to the hobby get under way. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...178286&page=10 (Page 10, it's the long post...)
As mentioned in that post, the point of this thread is to support the growing P7N enthusiast community and to provide it with a rich information and support library. This can best be obtained by people contributing their successes (so we can learn) and their issues (so we can solve.) Thanks to everyone who has been a part of this thread :) Let's keep it coming!!
Quick Rundown
Motherboard: MSI P7N Diamond
Chipset: nVidia 780i (board is non-reference design)
NB/SB: nVidia 780i SSP / nVidia 570i MCP
Chipset Cooling: MSI Circupipe Design
Compatible With: LGA 775 Pentium 4, D, Core 2 Duo, Quad, and Extreme chips, including 45nm Wolfdale/Yorkfield chips.
FSB: Officially supports up to 1333mhz FSB.
DIMMs: 4x DDR-2 officially supporting up to 1066mhz RAM.
PCI-E: 2x x16 Physical / x16 PCI-E 2.0 electrical, 1x x16 Physical / x16 PCI-E. 1.1 Electrical, 1x x16 Physical / x8 Electrical, 2x x1 Physical / Electrical
PCI: 1x PCI slot.
SATA: 6x on board SATA 2 provided by MCP, 2x additional ESATA provided by jMicron add-on controller.
IDE: 2x IDE Connectors, allowing up to four drives. 1x Floppy drive connector.
On-Board USB/1394: 2 on-board USB headers, 1 on-board Firewire header for front port
Backplate I/O: 1x PS/2 Keyboard, 1x PS/2 Mouse, 6x USB 2, 1x 1394, 2x ESATA, 2x 10/100/1000 Ethernet
Sound: Included Creative X-Fi Xtreme-Audio PCI-E 1 add-in card.
Extras: Clear CMOS button on back plate, on-board power / reset buttons, status LED lights for standby, power, HDD, all PCI-E slots, all RAM DIMMs.
MSI Product Page
http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?f...2&maincat_no=1
Reviews & Product Tours
TigerDirect Product Tour (link via YouTube) -- More of an "infomercial," but he does give a good tour of the board's features.
Digital-Daily -- Looks to be an English review from a Russian enthusiast site.
Known Issues
- Kentsfield Quads wont operate with a reduced multiplier on the shipping BIOS or betas 1.1B1-1.1B4. Performance BIOS P05 resolves this.
- Overclocking a QX9650 may result in sporadic cold-boot failures. Beta BIOS 1.1B4 is known to resolve this for some, but others are still experiencing an issue. MSI is aware of the problem and should be working towards a fix.
- Users of optical SATA drives may experience blue-screens relating to an NVGTS.SYS driver in Windows XP 32-bit. This is a known issue across all nForce boards. To eliminate it, first try moving the drive's SATA cable to a different port. If this doesn't resolve it, you will need to uninstall your nVidia motherboard drivers. With all drivers removed (except for display if using a GeForce card,) re-install your drivers except for SATA / MediaShield. This will allow your drives to rely on the built in Windows XP SATA drivers, resolving the issue.
BIOS
- Shipping BIOS is v1.0, dated 1/15/08. No new released BIOSes are available yet.
- Current beta BIOS is 1.1B8. This BIOS is a recommended download, as it swaps the nonsensical integer voltage values with meaningful settings. Perfomance / reliability data is still pending, but expect it to be on par if not better than 1.1B6 / P07.
- Current performance BIOS is P07, based off of 1.1B6. This BIOS is known to solve multiplier issues with Yorkfield / Wolfdale chips. P09, which should carry over 1.1B8's new voltage settings, should be out shortly.
Beta and Performance BIOSes are available from the MSI forums. Note that you need to register in order to download these BIOSes. Once registered, see the "User Modified BIOS" sub-forum, availble from the "Overclockers & Modding Corner" forum. Beta and performance BIOSes are also available from MSI forum moderators, as well as from MSI support.
Overclocking Tips
Disable Features: As always, be sure to disable OC-hindering features before overclocking. In the CPU Feature menu (accessible from Advanced BIOS Features,) disable Execute Bit Support, C1E Support, Set Limit CPUID MaxVal to 3, and CPU TM function. If you do not see all of these options in the menu, press F4. In the Cell Menu, disable D.O.T. Control, Intel EIST Speed Spectrums, and Auto Disable DRAM/PCI Frequency. Lastly, for best results, set SLI-Ready Memory to EXPERT if available, and System Clock Mode to MANUAL.
Keep a 1:1 Divider between RAM and FSB: When overclocking, it is best to keep a 1:1 ratio between RAM and FSB, such that the base FSB speed = the base RAM speed. On reference nForce boards, a 1:1 ratio can automatically be obtained by setting RAM to "linked and synced." However, setting your System Clock Mode to LINKED on the P7N diamond does not result in a 1:1 ratio. To keep a 1:1 ratio when overclocking, you must set System Clock Mode to manual and do some math.
The math, fortunately, is rather simple. The important thing to remember is that the numbers set in the BIOS for FSB and RAM are rated, or multiplied speeds. The rated FSB speed set in the BIOS is the quad-pumped speed, so it is 4x the base FSB speed you want to match. The RAM speed is the double-data-rate speed, so it is 2x the base RAM speed you want to match. To keep a 1:1 ratio, simply set RAM to 1/2 your set FSB speed.
Below are some examples of popular 1:1 ratios, as set in the P7N BIOS.
* FSB = 1066, RAM = 533 (base speeds: 266mhz)
* FSB = 1333, RAM = 667 (base speeds: 333mhz)
* FSB = 1600, RAM = 800 (base speeds: 400mhz)
* FSB = 1800, RAM = 900 (base speeds: 450mhz)
Know your CPU's VID: The P7N has an odd way of setting vCore (your processor's voltage.) Unlike other boards where you simply set the voltage you wish to pump to your CPU (i.e. 1.3v, 1.45v, etc,) the P7N has you set the amount of voltage increase (i.e +0.0500 to stock, +0.1000 to stock, etc.) In order to know how much voltage you've set in the BIOS, you must know your CPU's default voltage. This is called VID, and is unique to each and every Core 2 CPU.
To find your processor's VID, you must use either Core Temp, Everette Ultimate Edition, or (I believe) CPUID Hardware Monitor. Each of these programs can be downloaded from the Internet, but note that Everette is trial-ware and may not display VID w/o paying for the full version. On a Conroe or Kentsfield processor, your VID will most likely be within the range of 1.2000v to 1.3500v. On the popular Q6600 G0, VID will likely not exceed 1.3250v, with most coming in around the 1.2500-1.2750 mark. On 45nm chips, VID will be lower, often below 1.2000v.
The amount of voltage sent to your CPU (according to the BIOS) is VID + the amount set in the BIOS. If you leave vCore on AUTO, then the VID amount is sent. Unlike the reference boards, the P7N will not guesstimate an increased voltage to match your overclock when vCore is left on AUTO. Note that this explanation does not account for vOffset or vDroop, which is explained below in its own section.
North Bridge Cooling: One of the more impressive aspects of the P7N Diamond is that the North Bridge seems to run genuinely cooler than on other 780i boards. While it won't run at breezy P35/X38 levels, NB heat shouldn't be as much of a concern on this board as on others.
Note that as of now, there is no easy way to accurately read the NB temp. The BIOS, the latest version of Everest, and HW Monitor report a MB temp, which according to MSI, is taken from near the center of the motherboard. You can feel for a hot NB (quite literally) by placing your hand on the NB heat pipe. If it feels too hot to touch for a short period of time, then your NB is running hotter than it should. (Note that this is not necessarily the case with other 780i boards, as they may naturally run too hot to touch w/o aftermarket cooling.) In this case, you may want to inspect the motherboard's heat pipe. Make sure that it's making proper contact with the board in all areas. Furthermore, you might want to remove the heat pipe all together and inspect the TIM. Often times, the TIM is applied poorly from the manufacturer, and replacing it can greatly reduce operating temps. If you do replace it, consider using an alternative to AS5, such as Arctic Silver Ceramique. AS5 is slightly conductive and can cause damage to your board if any of it gets where it shouldn't. If you use AS5, do not use it on the MOSFETS, as these are particularly sensitive components.
Lastly, if you plan for a high OC, you will likely have to raise NB voltage. Even though the NB runs cooler than on other nForce boards, you may still find it worthwhile to buy a small fan to blow air over the heat pipe. An Antec Spot Cool works wonderfully in this regard, as its easy to set up and does a good job. For example, at 1.425v, my NB heat pipe is never too hot to touch and the MB temp does not surpass 50c.
Suggested OC Software It's important to have the right software to monitor temps and stress test. Below is a list of recommended software.
Temp monitoring:
- Core Temp 0.97, Download from http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/. This is perhaps the most popular temperature monitoring program available. Note that the latest version is natively compatible with Vista x64.
- Speed Fan, Download from http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php. This is a popular alternative to Core Temp, but many do believe Core Temp to be more accurate. Speed Fan, on the other hand, will read the board's other sensors and report processor load and voltage. Important: Note that Speed Fan will inaccurately measure G0 stepping temperatures by -15 degrees. If you use this program, you must compensate for this inaccuracy in the settings.
- Everest, Download trial from http://www.lavalys.com/. This is the grand buffet of monitoring and reporting programs, and will tell you everything you could ever want to know about your PC. For temp monitoring, it's on par with Core Temp, but it will also monitor much more. This is trialware however, and you will have to pay to access all features in the full version.
Stress Testing:
Prime 95 25.6, Download from http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=9779. This is the golden standard for stress testing. When you are honing in on your final OC, standard practice is to run the Prime95 Small FFT Torture Test on all of your cores from anywhere between 4 to 24 (or more) hours. (Although I find 8-12 hours to be reasonable unless number crunching is a primary function of your computer.) If running a Quad Core, be sure to run version 25.0 or higher as it will automatically run an instance on each core. Also, be sure to check "Round Off Error Checking" before starting the test. Otherwise many stability errors will go undetected.
OCCT 2.0.0a, Download from http://www.ocbase.com/perestroika_en/. An excellent companion to Prime, OCCT is best used to test NB and RAM stability and for running a quick processor stability test.
Suggested Settings
The following settings are known to support a stable 400mhz FSB when paired with a Kentsfield quad. On a Q6600 at default multiplier, this will result in a 3.6ghz CPU. Note that your results may vary:
FSB: 1600mhz
RAM: 800mhz
vCore: <<entirely dependent on the OC capabilities of your cpu.>>
vDIMM: <<entirely dependant on your RAM. Set to maximum factory setting.>>
vNB: 1.425
vSB: Auto
CPU GTL Ref: 65
FSB Term: 25
All other voltages: AUTO
The following settings are known to support an E8400/E8500 at 4.0ghz and above. Again, the latest BIOS is still finicky when it comes to 45nm chips, so you may not have guaranteed success just yet.
FSB: 1800mhz
RAM: 900mhz
vCore: <<entirely dependent on the OC capabilities of your cpu.>>
vDIMM: <<entirely dependant on your RAM. Set to maximum factory setting.>>
vNB: 1.4
vSB: Auto
FSB Term: 63
All other voltages: AUTO
GTLRef doesn't seem to play as large a role here, and it shouldn't, considering it's concern is more with Quad Core cpus. Compared to the Q6600, the key difference here appears to be FSB Term. 65 (vs 25) seems to be the key for E8400s OCs on this board.[
vDroop Info, Mods
vOffset and vDroop do exist and are comparable to other nForce boards, including the reference boards. Expect a -.02 to -.04 drop between what was set in the BIOS to what is reported under idle operation (vOffset.) Expect another -.02 to -.04 drop under load (vDroop.)
At this moment, there is no setting to disable vDroop in the BIOS, nor is there a known physical mod (like the reference board pencil mod.) This section will be updated with new information if and when it becomes available.
Other, Misc
Two Card SLI: The manual states that for a two-card SLI setup, both cards must be placed in blue PCI-E 2.0 slots. This is incorrect. One card can use the top blue PCI-E 2.0 slot and the other can use the white PCI-E 1.1 x16 slot with no issues. Instead of using the two short flexible bridge connectors, which won't fit, simply use the one longer bridge connector. You should experience no issue enabling SLI and no performance loss in benchmarks or games. This will allow you to utilize the board's single PCI slot, which otherwise would be covered up by a double-width card in the second blue PCI-E slot.
Note that some have experienced a slight performance loss when running with one card in the white slot (500-700 3dMark points and 1-3fps in games,) while at least one user noticed a more substantial difference. This may be due to the loss of a bridge cable (for GTX / Ultra / 9800 users,) the fact that both cards are no longer communicating over the bridge chip, or both.
If you do want to run this board with a PCI card and 2x SLI, you may first want to see what performance loss, if any, you experience by having one card run in the white slot. 500 points and 1-2fps may not matter much, as I've seen greater performance swings just by switching drivers. However, any difference should be considered when making an evaluation for a long-term setup.
Update History
03/09/08 - Update #1 (updated issues list, added OC tips, settings, and vDroop info.)
03/23/08 - Update #2 (Added OC suggestions on NB cooling and useful software. Added E8400 suggested settings and blurb on two-card SLI.)
05/07/08 - Update #4 (new BIOS announcement)
